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Old
12-13-2010, 03:42 PM
  #1
txomisc
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switching lines up

anyone think Morrow and Wandell would play well together? Both of these guys are struggling but I think maybe their styles would compliment each other. Im also thinking Benn should be on ribieros left and gagnon should get a chance on the right. Obviously breaking up the Ott line while its working is a bad idea but we need offense from that 2nd line and we just arent getting it.

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12-13-2010, 08:39 PM
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piqued
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Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell &Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Benn & Wandell & Ott

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Old
12-13-2010, 11:16 PM
  #3
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Benn, Ribeiro and Wandell makes for... Detroit level puck possesion.

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12-14-2010, 09:42 AM
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Karitimes
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^ Yes, if we want to watch a total perimeter game. It's nice to have two guys who can go hard to the net as outlets for Ribs to hit. I don't think Wandell would serve that purpose. I think Ribeiro handles the puck possession aspect of the game for that line; 2 guys win battles, then get it to little Jukes n Jives to do the rest. Works well for a smallish Ribeiro to go to battle for pucks in each corner with a mean player (Benn or Morrow) equipped to protect the little guy in the event he gets roughed up. And when Ribs is on top of his game, as he was last night, the other team will take runs at him. I don't want Benn having to come to the rescue and spend time in the box, because God knows Wandell would not provide any protection. Morrow settles the play and other players on the ice understand who they have to deal with if they want to take swipes at the little Frenchman. Notice the team get pushed around without 10 for the first half of the second period last night? Just saying.

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12-14-2010, 04:22 PM
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Preferring Morrow to handle security duties over Benn is quaint. More often than not Benn is the first guy in to stand up for a teammate regardless of whoever is on the ice. I agree that Benn staying out of the box most of the time is better than him in there (obviously) but why do we want things one way for some players and another way for others? Benn standing up for his teammates is awesome and I look forward to seeing more of it as the season and his career progresses.

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12-14-2010, 08:22 PM
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Karitimes
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To me quaint is a nice little teahouse in a small New England town. Not sure what to make of it in the context of a hockey conversation. But, what I mean is Morrow has a reputation of handling those duties. Benn is earning that rep, and doing very well at it. Should he be doing it as part of his duties, or should he focus on being our top sniper? That's all I'm getting at. I prefer Benn handling himself(as he did a nice job against the Pens earlier this season) and dealing with the offense and PK duties. Basically, not getting too distracted by the extraciricular when we have more marginal talents to take care of that. Of course, both those guys would run to Ribs' rescue, but one I'd prefer to see there more often than the other and subsequently in the box more than the other.

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12-14-2010, 08:37 PM
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Quaint in the sense that o' captain my captain needs to be the one 'protecting' his linemates. Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Morrow jump into the fray for guys when he was a young player. Benn is becoming a true power forward, and fighting, etc. is part of his game. Personally I'm all for it. I think it shows something both to his teammates and to the league that he's willing to do that.

I'm not completely buying your position of letting Benn concentrate on his sniper duties. If he were truly viewed as the number one scoring option on his line he wouldn't be the one playing out of position. We have yet to see Benn play LW for any sustained number of games since he's arrived in the NHL. I said it during the summer and I stand by my position that if they're going to play Benn on Ribeiro's wing then it needs to be LW, not RW.

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Old
12-16-2010, 08:42 PM
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^Because that's exactly what I was saying... Did I say Morrow needs to be the guy, or did I'd say prefer? I, like you, see Benn as a more prominent threat. Does that mean Benn should play LW when he's intelligent and talented (more so than MY Captain anyway) enough to play any forward position? I have my own thoughts and I'm glad I know yours too.

We all have our own preferences of what we'd like to see out of certain players. You know what, I like what you say you'd like out of Benn. I'm all about him dusting it up once in a while when the situation calls for it. All I stated was if I had a choice (which I don't) I would like to see Morrow dealing with the BS more often than Benn, because the potential impact of Benn's game is greater than that of Morrow's. And when I said our top sniper, insert 'involving into' prior to our top sniper. Sorry I will be more clear with my structured sentences, if you keep your quaints to yourself.

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12-16-2010, 09:29 PM
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Right. To clear up any confusion I'm not delusional enough to think my preference matters at all. It's one of those "goes without saying" type things.

It wasn't your sentence structure so much as leaving out a critical word or phrase (evolving into) that changes the meaning of the sentence quite a bit. I am slightly amused that my choice of adjective bothered you as much as it did. I'll work on that.

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12-17-2010, 08:23 AM
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Karitimes
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Only reason I replied was the o'captain, my captain thing. Once we can get past that, I'm sure we can have some constructive conversations. I'm amused as well.

And you of all astute Stars fans, I would think would understand that the 'evolving into' might be implied. Look no further than the stats. 7 goals doesn't scream top sniper, but unbelieveable roofjob from the top of the circle on Halak a few weeks back sure does say he could be that number one guy in short order. I meant the potential is there, and I'm sure you understand that based on wanting him in the best possible spot in the lineup for him to excel. I hope we're on the same page now.


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12-17-2010, 09:57 AM
  #11
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I was thinking, let's break up the top line. You're probably going to tell me I'm absolutely ********, though.

Benn - Richards - Eriksson
Morrow - Ribeiro - x, where x is the position of reward for the 4th liners
Neal - Ott - Burish
Segal/Petersen/Wandell/Sutherby/Barch

First off, the first line is interesting. One of it's biggest drawbacks is a physical edge and backchecking. Neal hasn't had that edge since his suspension. Honestly I think the weak link has been Eriksson lately, and if my avatar is any indication, I do like Eriksson. We replace Neal with Benn and make Benn the puckchaser. Loui can't backcheck if he's pinned in the corner fishing for a puck.

Obviously nothing changes here. Ideally we put a defensive forward with the offensive upside to keep up with Morrow and Ribeiro. Not Burish, not Ott. Benn doesn't mesh with that line at all. Right now, we see the 4th liners rotated through here on the right wing. We want a Kobasew, Burrows or Lehtinen type guy here, though.

Now you're going to ask, "FF, why did you move Neal to the third line? Are you daft?" This is sort of a punishment, and sort of a reward in my opinion. It's a punishment in that he doesn't get to play with Richards. It's a reward because it means he is the big offensive threat on the line. He makes up for Burish's lack of offense. He can be a powerforward here. He's honestly more Rick Nash (finesse) than a Brenden Morrow (physical) type powerforward. He can make the big hits. He can pass. He can shoot and do amazing things. But he's a bit of a solo force at times. Like Kessel. If he's not doing amazing offensive things, he's not nearly as effective as he should be.

On the fourth line, as long as Wandell is on it, I don't care who you put with him. He doesn't have much offensive upside, but he's fantastic with the puck. And if the other team doesn't have the puck, and you do, well, that's checking.

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12-17-2010, 01:10 PM
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I'm sorry, but breaking up a line that's operating at a PPG pace just doesn't make sense to me. Benn strikes me as someone who needs to be the clear-cut threat on a line more than Neal. I like your Rick Nash comparison though. Neal is definitely a finesse player and that's not a bad thing. It's funny to listen to people on the main boards characterize him as a power forward.

The way to improve the 1st line's skating and backchecking is by managing their minutes. You do that by having a more balanced lineup behind them that you have confidence in. It's not like they're really doing a bad job of the defensive aspects to begin with.

Neal-Richards-Eriksson (most teams would kill to have a line like this)
Morrow-Ribeiro-Segal (Segal's rejuvinated affinity for shooting the puck will come in handy here)
Benn-Wandell-Ott (the lynchpin of all my line-related hopes and dreams)
Sutherby-Gagnon-Burish (a 4th line you can truly say is above-average and one you wouldn't live in constant fear of getting caught out on the ice against top competition)

Wandell on the 4th line is a waste. He needs to be playing more. He's one of those guys who the longer is out there the more the game will get inexorably tilted in the Stars' favor. He accumulates puck possession time, he keeps the D from getting trapped in their end, he'll make beautiful music with Benn. I just ask for the chance to see this fail.

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12-17-2010, 02:52 PM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple A Day Kari View Post
I hope we're on the same page now.
More or less.


Re: Lines and Neal

I said it in another thread and I would still like to see (although piqued's Benn-Wandell pairing is something I'm not opposed to) Neal with Wandell on that 3rd line. I don't think it's crazy to spread out the scoring and I do think that Neal may be able to take more of an alpha role without Richards and excel.


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12-17-2010, 04:28 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glovesave_35 View Post
More or less.


Re: Lines and Neal

I said it in another thread and I would still like to see (although piqued's Benn-Wandell pairing is something I'm not opposed to) Neal with Wandell on that 3rd line. I don't think it's crazy to spread out the scoring and I do think that Neal may be able to take more of an alpha role without Richards and excel.
I don't think Wandell and Neal would mesh well. They've both got that one man army syndrome. Neal and two guys like Ott and Burish who are big team players would, in my opinion, serve us better than having 3 one man armies on one line. Two one man armies don't serve a line much.

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12-17-2010, 04:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frozen Failure View Post
I don't think Wandell and Neal would mesh well. They've both got that one man army syndrome. Neal and two guys like Ott and Burish who are big team players would, in my opinion, serve us better than having 3 one man armies on one line. Two one man armies don't serve a line much.
I agree, to a point. They both like to handle the puck, yes. But I wouldn't go so far as to call them one man armies. They both cycle well and Wandell still has untapped playmaking ability (I'm convinced of this, right or wrong). The way I see it working is that when Wandell has the puck in one of his sweeping forays a guy like Burish or Ott would be working to the front of the net while Neal would be finding an opening for the pass for the one timer or posting up behind the net to retrieve a Wandell re-dump. When Neal has the puck it would become more of a pure cycle game (when Neal isn't snapping a wrister off the rush), of which all of the above mentioned players are pretty good at.

It won't happen for a number of reasons but if I were lord of the land for a few games it's something I would like to see.

*Something that hasn't really been mentioned...Wandell's game seems to jump noticeably when he gets more minutes.

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12-17-2010, 04:58 PM
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I don't think Burish or Ott is particularly suited to working the front of the net on a regular basis. You'd really want a guy like Gazdic or Wathier in there. A bigger, more physical guy. You could use a faster guy down low for picking up missed shots and rebounds, like Petersen or Gagnon.

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Old
12-18-2010, 04:16 PM
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Karitimes
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I'd be open to Piqued's - Benn, Wandell, Ott combo, but I believe Benn would likely be a centerman if dropped of line 2. Ott and Benn have been good together in PK and the best line in camp was Brunnstrom, Benn Ott. I wouldn't hate to see a Ott, Benn, Gagnon line. I believe that giving Benn the free reign to be in the battles and around the puck a little more is a good idea. And, this would negate the 1 or 2 noticable turnovers he's been making per game during the breakout. Anytime a guy of his size and skill can be more involved the better. I think it would make it a lot harder for teams to play/matchup against a much more dangerous 3rd line(with Benn on it).

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12-19-2010, 09:40 AM
  #18
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I did see an Ott, Burish, Neal combo last night. I liked what I saw. Wandell got moved up to play with Loui and Richards. I don't think that's the answer but it wasn't awful.

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