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Hockey News Phaneuf-Stajan trade

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Old
12-19-2010, 07:03 PM
  #51
MarkGio
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Originally Posted by Dallas Hockey Fan View Post
To say his play is not contributing to the reason the Flames are at the bottom of the league is THE dumbest thing I have heard in a long time.
Even the moron behind the bench knows enough to bench him
You win as a team and you lose as a team. Why a team loses and wins a single game may be a reflection on one or more players, but the standings don't reflect contributing factors, they only reflect which teams are winning and which are losing. Bottom line, Stajan has been no more a contribution to losses than any other players on this roster.

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Old
12-19-2010, 07:26 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Fan 4 Life View Post
Okay and to say he is at market value for 3.5 is fine. My only issue was this...



...you can't tell me you weren't trying to use his projected assists to show that he is actually on a deal of a contract. You clearly put him on the level of these other 45+ assist players and then compare their salaries to make a point, he isn't on any of those players levels, therefore the point you tried to make there just isn't accurate.

You can certainly make arguements that 3.5 million for Stajan is market value based on other players at his level.

Again, just to be clear, my issue is that you directly compared Stajans salary against Lecavliers, Kopitars, Koivus, Perrys, and Getzlafs to try and show that Stajan makes less then other players of equal talents as Stajan. Stajan, simply put, is not as good as those players.
I never once said Stajan was as good as those players... cleary you didnt understand the points I was trying to make... which were he makes market value, not a bargain nor overpaid... just market value... ans that assists are still production because the half wits in here don't seem to understand that

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dallas Hockey Fan View Post
To say his play is not contributing to the reason the Flames are at the bottom of the league is THE dumbest thing I have heard in a long time.

Even the moron behind the bench knows enough to bench him
I knew expecting you to comrehend a hockey conversation was clearly too much to ask... but to simplify for you... I said his prosduction isn't the MAIN reason... I never once said he wasn't a contributing factor... every player on the team is a contributing factor

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Old
12-20-2010, 12:56 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Lunatik View Post
I knew expecting you to comrehend a hockey conversation was clearly too much to ask... but to simplify for you... I said his prosduction isn't the MAIN reason... I never once said he wasn't a contributing factor... every player on the team is a contributing factor
It's funny that you like to start every post with insult to other poster. You must be the bravest person on the internet.

That said your love for Jokinen and Stajan has made you blind to the obvious. They are total failure for the Flames. Is it totally Stajan's fault? Not really, it's the moron that think he is a qualified top 6. He may have the numbers to justify a top 2 center with teams like the Leafs and Flames but not for any serious contender....the proof is already in the pudding..open your ****ing eyes

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Old
12-20-2010, 12:59 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by MarkGio View Post
You win as a team and you lose as a team. Why a team loses and wins a single game may be a reflection on one or more players, but the standings don't reflect contributing factors, they only reflect which teams are winning and which are losing. Bottom line, Stajan has been no more a contribution to losses than any other players on this roster.
Not really man...some people do their job, some people dont. Not everybody on the team has same contribution to the failure....like I said before, it may not be his fault that he failed to provide adequate top 6 performance...it's the fault of the moron that thnk this 3rd liner can be a top 6 on a contender, especially on a team that lacks talent everywhere else.

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Old
12-20-2010, 01:37 PM
  #55
Johnny Hoxville
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Matt Stajan last season scored 19 goals, and in 08/09 - 15 goals, and in 07/08 - 16 goals. This season his goal production is down, but his assist totals are up, so for those that cannot figure out what that translates into, it shows that he is still producing offensively. And guess what, assists lead to goals. I don't care if he is scoring or passing the puck, if he is putting up 55-60+ points a season then I am fine with his contract.

What can you expect from a 2nd line centre, IMO you should expect him to produce decent numbers, be a good play maker, be good in your own end, and be good in FO's, and Stajan is all these things. He is pretty good at everything, but great at nothing.

Production wise, Stajan has put up very similar numbers to Joe Pavelski. Except Stajan put up 6 more points than Pavelski last season. Pavelski has 7 more points than Stajan this year, he has also played 6 more games. Don't get me wrong, I would take Pavelski any day of the week over Stajan and Pavelski is better all around, but they're production and numbers are comparable. And Pavelski makes 4 million a season as a second line centre. If we had Pavelski as our second line centre, no one in this city would be complaining about his salary (well it is Calgary, maybe that isn't true).

Granted if Stajan was playing on the second line, his numbers would likely drop off a little, but for what he is producing right now his contract is fair. Stajan has been part of the problem this season, but he hasn't been our worst player either. He does need to be better, and he knows that himself. But the Flames as a group collectively need to be much better and Stajan is no exception. Hopefully his benching motivates him to elevate his game. I am just trying to point out that his contract is not as bad as people are saying it is, I just wish the term was not long as it is. However, he is signed to a fair cap hit during what should be his best years in the NHL.

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Old
12-21-2010, 01:10 AM
  #56
Roadrage
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Yes Matt Stajan scored 19 goals last season but only 3 with the Flames in 27 games and 2 in the same number of games this season for a grand total of 5 in 54. Someone had to score for the Leafs besides Kessel.

Stajan is on pace for 44 points this season (but 55 if extroplated over 82 games) which isn't too bad for his cap hit. The very surprising stat I didn't notice until today was that Stajan has 0 points on the PP. How can a guy who most say is supposedly a playmaker (seeing as he wasn't brought in to be a scorer) have absolutely no points on the PP this year and a grand total of 2 powerplay assists in 54 games as a Flame?

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Old
12-21-2010, 08:54 AM
  #57
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How can a guy who most say is supposedly a playmaker (seeing as he wasn't brought in to be a scorer) have absolutely no points on the PP this year and a grand total of 2 powerplay assists in 54 games as a Flame?
That is because he is not good enough. Anybody giving top line ice time with a team can put up that many points. Simply put any team with Stajan as first line center is a leading candidate for 1st overall pick...Strong teams would have him on a 3rd line...

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12-22-2010, 12:11 AM
  #58
Fan 4 Life
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Originally Posted by Lunatik View Post
I never once said Stajan was as good as those players... cleary you didnt understand the points I was trying to make... which were he makes market value, not a bargain nor overpaid... just market value... ans that assists are still production because the half wits in here don't seem to understand that
Well I am pretty sure I have shown a couple times now that you made an invalid argument and you clearly do not want to just admit it.

Anyways, you are right, assists are still production, and Stajan is getting close to market value (I'd say a little more but it's close). Stajan isn't helping the team win, but he certainly isn't the reason they suck lately. There are much greater problems then Stajan.

Win as a team, lose as a team, and don't trade your first rounder if more the the second thing is happening haha.

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Old
12-22-2010, 09:01 AM
  #59
slappipappi
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Originally Posted by Dallas Hockey Fan View Post
That is because he is not good enough. Anybody giving top line ice time with a team can put up that many points. Simply put any team with Stajan as first line center is a leading candidate for 1st overall pick...Strong teams would have him on a 3rd line...
this........

Stajan is a 3rd line centre on any elite team, making 1.5M and giving you 30 points.

Puting him on the 1st line where he can get 55 points because of increased premium ice time with superior linemates means you will have to pay him $3.5M becuase he appears to be a better player, but that type of production means you will have a terrible team.

The better teams get much better production out of their top 6 forwards than the Flames are getting. And that's why we have the worst winning % in the West.

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