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12-20-2010, 07:42 AM
  #26
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Originally Posted by phillyfanatic View Post
I read this thread and laugh. Freakin Toronto. JVR was almost traded there. Just like Carter was a done deal for Kaberle and has almost been traded there many times. Oddly enough, Homer has said repeatedly that he has never and will never pursue trading Jeff Carter. This is just the good folks at TSN and the many other Toronto based media outlets "speculating" which is reported elsewhere and later becomes discussed as internet fact.

Carter wasn't almost traded, JVR is not being shopped, Zherdev is not being shopped. It all stinks of bull **** to me.
you know this how? or your just giving your opinion?

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12-20-2010, 07:44 AM
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How many players are 6-3 200+ pounds with his hands and speed?
i dont know how many? you make it sound liek he is one of the best in the business.

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12-20-2010, 10:23 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by NWO View Post
you know this how? or your just giving your opinion?
I live in Canada. I hear the Toronto media on a daily basis. They were the ones that started the "Carter for Kaberle" stuff a few years back - it is talked about as if it is a "fact". The Flyers have ALWAYS denied those rumours. Homer has stated from the day he took over that Carter and Richards were untouchable, yet somehow.....Carter has "almost" been traded to Toronto on multiple occasions but oddly enough, never anywhere else.....curious.

Now, magically - there are JVR to Toronto rumours. The Canadian media "talk hockey" 24 hours a day (literally). I am not saying the Flyers are NOT shopping JVR or Zherdev. However, since it started in Canada out of Toronto, I am saying this reeks of BS. Why would you shop JVR right now? This is a stanley cup year, he is signed at 1.6M and when his contract is up, he is an RFA, so if we have problems.....we trade him then, no rush. No worry about losing him for nothing, or having to sign him to a big contract. So why trade him?

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12-20-2010, 10:33 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by NWO View Post
i dont know how many? you make it sound liek he is one of the best in the business.
His point is still valid. JVR is big with good hands and a knack for scoring goals. He hasn't turned into a power forward YET. Lets not be the Habs this time around and trade him before he turns into one. We very nearly turned the John Leclair trade into a Stanley Cup. Now we have a young John Leclair (he is similar in goals and how he is perceived as Leclair was in Montreal) - I say be very careful when you are thinking about trading him. He has 40+ goal potential. Lavy is pushing the right buttons.

Look at Leclair:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_LeClair

Look at JVR:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_van_Riemsdyk

He has similar stats to a young Leclair. Similar frame, similar hands, similar shot. Why trade him now? Makes no sense to me. None.

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12-20-2010, 10:34 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by phillyfanatic View Post
I live in Canada. I hear the Toronto media on a daily basis. They were the ones that started the "Carter for Kaberle" stuff a few years back - it is talked about as if it is a "fact". The Flyers have ALWAYS denied those rumours. Homer has stated from the day he took over that Carter and Richards were untouchable, yet somehow.....Carter has "almost" been traded to Toronto on multiple occasions but oddly enough, never anywhere else.....curious.

Now, magically - there are JVR to Toronto rumours. The Canadian media "talk hockey" 24 hours a day (literally). I am not saying the Flyers are NOT shopping JVR or Zherdev. However, since it started in Canada out of Toronto, I am saying this reeks of BS. Why would you shop JVR right now? This is a stanley cup year, he is signed at 1.6M and when his contract is up, he is an RFA, so if we have problems.....we trade him then, no rush. No worry about losing him for nothing, or having to sign him to a big contract. So why trade him?
There is your answer as to why they may trade him. They can acquire someone who helps them now, more than jvr will potentially.

Rarely does a gm tell anyone he is moving said players, especilly if a deal blows up. It is in his best interest to say carter wasnt being moved. Just ebcause he denies it doesnt mean it couldnt have happened.

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12-20-2010, 10:38 AM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phillyfanatic View Post
His point is still valid. JVR is big with good hands and a knack for scoring goals. He hasn't turned into a power forward YET. Lets not be the Habs this time around and trade him before he turns into one. We very nearly turned the John Leclair trade into a Stanley Cup. Now we have a young John Leclair (he is similar in goals and how he is perceived as Leclair was in Montreal) - I say be very careful when you are thinking about trading him. He has 40+ goal potential. Lavy is pushing the right buttons.

Look at Leclair:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_LeClair

Look at JVR:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_van_Riemsdyk

He has similar stats to a young Leclair. Similar frame, similar hands, similar shot. Why trade him now? Makes no sense to me. None.
LeClair an JVR are definitely similar players but there is a very big difference between the two. LeClair had his best seasons playing on the LOD and playing with Lindross. Don't think that matters? Keith Jones scored 18 goals playing with one leg on a line with Lindorss. Not taking anything away from LeClair (he is my all time favorite player), but there is no one the Flyers that can do for JVR what Lindross did for other players. My guess is that JVR's career high will be around 40 goals and I don't think it will happen as a regular thing.

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12-20-2010, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by phillyfanatic View Post
His point is still valid. JVR is big with good hands and a knack for scoring goals. He hasn't turned into a power forward YET. Lets not be the Habs this time around and trade him before he turns into one. We very nearly turned the John Leclair trade into a Stanley Cup. Now we have a young John Leclair (he is similar in goals and how he is perceived as Leclair was in Montreal) - I say be very careful when you are thinking about trading him. He has 40+ goal potential. Lavy is pushing the right buttons.

Look at Leclair:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_LeClair

Look at JVR:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_van_Riemsdyk

He has similar stats to a young Leclair. Similar frame, similar hands, similar shot. Why trade him now? Makes no sense to me. None.


His point is valid to a point, so what? He has good hands and speed, ok. Again he isnít a world class player by any means. He may or may not be someday. Comparing leclair and jvr is funny to me. They are not nearly the same type of player, not even close inm. Their size and the fact they are form the US is what they have in common. I donít need to look up anything about leclair as seen him play plenty. I do not see 40 goal potential from JVR at this point at all.

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12-20-2010, 10:48 AM
  #33
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JVR if he turns into the player I think he needs to turn into can sit and bang in so many goals from Carter rebounds that he could hit 40. However, like Leclair, Knuble, Neely and almost all other power forwards - you need to let that physical frame to develop. As long as he develops into a frame that is physically dominant - he will be a dominant power forward. 20 year old future power forwards rarely are able to dominate 30 year olds in the NHL physically, it takes 3-5 years. Think Vancouver would take back the Neely trade? Think Montreal wishes they never traded Leclair one year too early?

Noboby should be looking to JVR to score 30 goals yet. Give him time. We need to be patient if we want the benefits we need to live with the growing pains.

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12-20-2010, 10:55 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by NWO View Post
His point is valid to a point, so what? He has good hands and speed, ok. Again he isnít a world class player by any means. He may or may not be someday. Comparing leclair and jvr is funny to me. They are not nearly the same type of player, not even close inm. Their size and the fact they are form the US is what they have in common. I donít need to look up anything about leclair as seen him play plenty. I do not see 40 goal potential from JVR at this point at all.
Montreal didn't see 40 goal potential in Leclair.
Vancouver didn't see 40 goal potential in Neely
Tim Kerr took 4 years to break 25 goals and went straight to 50.

These are all 6'3 inch goal scorers. Look at them. None were successful in the NHL until they developed into physically dominant "men". In todays NHL, I am sure after year 3 Tim Kerr would be sent packing after his 11 goals. He will never be much, sell now. Huge mistake that would be. I will start to judge JVR around year 5, until then - he should be given time to develop. That is how long power forwards take to come into their own. JVR was a physically dominant boy in the World Juniors and Under 18 championships. He will again become a physically dominant man playing against men. When that happens - 30 goals is the FLOOR! The ceiling.....you tell me?

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12-20-2010, 10:57 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by phillyfanatic View Post
JVR if he turns into the player I think he needs to turn into can sit and bang in so many goals from Carter rebounds that he could hit 40. However, like Leclair, Knuble, Neely and almost all other power forwards - you need to let that physical frame to develop. As long as he develops into a frame that is physically dominant - he will be a dominant power forward. 20 year old future power forwards rarely are able to dominate 30 year olds in the NHL physically, it takes 3-5 years. Think Vancouver would take back the Neely trade? Think Montreal wishes they never traded Leclair one year too early?

Noboby should be looking to JVR to score 30 goals yet. Give him time. We need to be patient if we want the benefits we need to live with the growing pains.
Every team has many trades they wish they could take back. I dont see him being a power forward despite his size. That is ok as well. I think they are going to try to make him something he isnít or doesnít want to pay the price to be. He will always get a bad rap among flyers fans because they see his size and think right away he should be a physical force. Therian went throught he same thing despite being a very solid dman for many years. It wasnít his game and I donít think it id jvrís game. Could he change, sure but that is something imo you have or donít have already. He doesnít have to be a power forward to have a successful career or contribute to this team.

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12-20-2010, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by phillyfanatic View Post
Montreal didn't see 40 goal potential in Leclair.
Vancouver didn't see 40 goal potential in Neely
Tim Kerr took 4 years to break 25 goals and went straight to 50.

These are all 6'3 inch goal scorers. Look at them. None were successful in the NHL until they developed into physically dominant "men". In todays NHL, I am sure after year 3 Tim Kerr would be sent packing after his 11 goals. He will never be much, sell now. Huge mistake that would be. I will start to judge JVR around year 5, until then - he should be given time to develop. That is how long power forwards take to come into their own. JVR was a physically dominant boy in the World Juniors and Under 18 championships. He will again become a physically dominant man playing against men. When that happens - 30 goals is the FLOOR! The ceiling.....you tell me?
Please stop with the examples as there are plenty other players who didnít pan out. I donít see any comparison to those players and jvr except his size. I got news for you, he wont have 5 yeasr here if he doesnít improve every year by a good bit. They are trying to win a cuop and if he needs to be moved for a piece they think will get them over the hump, he will be moved. I wont sit here and say 30 goals is the floor every year based on what I see now.

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12-20-2010, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by NWO View Post
Every team has many trades they wish they could take back. I dont see him being a power forward despite his size. That is ok as well. I think they are going to try to make him something he isnít or doesnít want to pay the price to be. He will always get a bad rap among flyers fans because they see his size and think right away he should be a physical force. Therian went throught he same thing despite being a very solid dman for many years. It wasnít his game and I donít think it id jvrís game. Could he change, sure but that is something imo you have or donít have already. He doesnít have to be a power forward to have a successful career or contribute to this team.
Again - he was a dominant power forward for team USA in the World Juniors and the Under 18's. One of the all time best USA forwards to be clear. That tournament is great because you are playing against the best for your age in the world. I believe once he develops, he will again be a dominant power forward. He just isn't strong enough at this point to win the battles consistently. Or tough enough to take the punishment on a nightly basis. But again, not many 20 year olds are.

Give him time. Too early to judge him yet. Not saying he is a guarantee to succeed, just saying - don't think he can't because he isn't there yet. Give him at least 2 more years before you write him off. IMO.

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12-20-2010, 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by NWO View Post
Please stop with the examples as there are plenty other players who didnít pan out. I donít see any comparison to those players and jvr except his size. I got news for you, he wont have 5 yeasr here if he doesnít improve every year by a good bit. They are trying to win a cuop and if he needs to be moved for a piece they think will get them over the hump, he will be moved. I wont sit here and say 30 goals is the floor every year based on what I see now.
I'll bet a coke on it. If he doesn't hit 30 goals, "Well smithers, I guess I owe you a coke". Not happening. He will get AT LEAST 30 in one of the next 3 years. MINIMUM.

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12-20-2010, 11:09 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by phillyfanatic View Post
I'll bet a coke on it. If he doesn't hit 30 goals, "Well smithers, I guess I owe you a coke". Not happening. He will get AT LEAST 30 in one of the next 3 years. MINIMUM.
depends on what kind of coke your talking. i dont like carbonation.

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12-20-2010, 11:12 AM
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depends on what kind of coke your talking. i dont like carbonation.
LOL - I think we go PM's after this one. LOL

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12-20-2010, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by NWO View Post
http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/...#ixzz18YocPbWY

I dot know how credible this guy is but i have a hard time believing there were no takers. Even a mid rd pick for carcillo i cant believe a team wouldn't take him. As i have said many times it wouldn't surprise me in the least though if JVR is traded. I just get the feeling the organization isnt to fond of him for whatever reason.
Some people don't want to spend what we're spending on a 4th line player. It's also a bad time of year to make a trade for value. Even a 1st for JVR, for someone who hasn't quite blossomed yet, not many will be willing to spend a 1st round pick this early in the season. No one wants to be saddled the way the Leafs, Flames, and we almost were last year.

I'm fine with being patient with JVR. With some of the guys on the team it's not necessary to demand 30 goals and 80 points this season like most other high draft picks.

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12-20-2010, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
Some people don't want to spend what we're spending on a 4th line player. It's also a bad time of year to make a trade for value. Even a 1st for JVR, for someone who hasn't quite blossomed yet, not many will be willing to spend a 1st round pick this early in the season. No one want to be saddled the way the Leafs, Flames, and we almost were last year.
As a "business move" - Dan Carcillo should be looked at by many teams as a player you can bring in and "make you money". The stash, style of game and fighting style can help teams sell tickets. If he is for sale, I could see 20 teams being interested.

Who got more time as the face of the Flyers on our website last year? Richards? PRonger? Carcillo? I say Carcillo. Fear the stash.

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12-20-2010, 11:37 AM
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As a "business move" - Dan Carcillo should be looked at by many teams as a player you can bring in and "make you money". The stash, style of game and fighting style can help teams sell tickets. If he is for sale, I could see 20 teams being interested.

Who got more time as the face of the Flyers on our website last year? Richards? PRonger? Carcillo? I say Carcillo. Fear the stash.
Carcillo is paid accordingly. Carcillo isnt selling any tickets though. he is worth mid rd pick and at somepoint that is what they will get. Still wish they had Ben Eager instead, another victim of the cake baker.

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12-20-2010, 11:41 AM
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Truth be told, any mention of a Flyers player in the media for a possible movement will always be the one "struggling" to produce regardless of the reason.

Another thing you can bet on is that the player will almost always have a relatively high ceiling, and he will be going to a big market team (probably Canadian).

The last thing you can bet is that the occurrence mentioned is either outdated, over-exaggerated, or taken out of context.

In reality, the discussion probably went something like this:

Holmgren: Any interest in Carcillo (Zherdev)?
Anonymous Team: Sure, what's the cost?
Holmgren: Some picks.
Anonymous Team: Sure, I got a 3rd lying around.
Holmgren: Let's talk a 2nd at least buddy.
Anonymous Team: Ha. I could've sworn you were talking about JVR (Giroux).
Holmgren: Not quite. You could throw us a could 1st rounders if you want him though.
Anonymous Team: No thanks.

Unless you are someone who ran around here in favor of trading Giroux, Carter, or Richards during their first two NHL seasons (all three as well as Giroux began their careers at age 20-21), then you really should not be for moving vanRiemsdyk. It's short-sighted to say the least.

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12-20-2010, 11:43 AM
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It's too unbelievable that no team would have interest in JvR, unless Holmgren was asking for the moon. Considering some of the deep-prospect franchises that are aching for a power forward Ė and I'm referring to JvR's potential to be one, not what he is showing at present Ė a deal would be pretty easy to arrange if there was a desire to on the part of the Flyers.

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12-20-2010, 11:47 AM
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It's too unbelievable that no team would have interest in JvR, unless Holmgren was asking for the moon. Considering some of the deep-prospect franchises that are aching for a power forward Ė and I'm referring to JvR's potential to be one, not what he is showing at present Ė a deal would be pretty easy to arrange if there was a desire to on the part of the Flyers.
It's not just unbelievable, it's completely idiotic to believe that.

If JVR is available for anything less than a top 10 first, it doesn't matter what team I'm manager for, I'm throwing my hat into that.

JVR is cheap, he's young, his play is better than what his production demonstrates, he produces well without PP time and with limited ice time, and his potential is through the roof.

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12-20-2010, 11:47 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Truth be told, any mention of a Flyers player in the media for a possible movement will always be the one "struggling" to produce regardless of the reason.

Another thing you can bet on is that the player will almost always have a relatively high ceiling, and he will be going to a big market team (probably Canadian).

The last thing you can bet is that the occurrence mentioned is either outdated, over-exaggerated, or taken out of context.

In reality, the discussion probably went something like this:

Holmgren: Any interest in Carcillo (Zherdev)?
Anonymous Team: Sure, what's the cost?
Holmgren: Some picks.
Anonymous Team: Sure, I got a 3rd lying around.
Holmgren: Let's talk a 2nd at least buddy.
Anonymous Team: Ha. I could've sworn you were talking about JVR (Giroux).
Holmgren: Not quite. You could throw us a could 1st rounders if you want him though.
Anonymous Team: No thanks.

Unless you are someone who ran around here in favor of trading Giroux, Carter, or Richards during their first two NHL seasons (all three as well as Giroux began their careers at age 20-21), then you really should not be for moving vanRiemsdyk. It's short-sighted to say the least.
Cliff has spoken. Absolute fact now, there is no way they are considering moving JVR. None. So any media member is incorrect. Despite the fact they may have heard or talked to someone that says otherwise. Cliff knows. In reality you know little/ next to nothing about what they may or may not be doing with jvr.

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12-20-2010, 12:06 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by NWO View Post
Cliff has spoken. Absolute fact now, there is no way they are considering moving JVR. None. So any media member is incorrect. Despite the fact they may have heard or talked to someone that says otherwise. Cliff knows. In reality you know little/ next to nothing about what they may or may not be doing with jvr.
pwn'd

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12-20-2010, 12:08 PM
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There's a reason NWO is blocked.

If the Flyers were so eager to get rid of JVR, why isn't he moved?

Let's ignore the fact that Holmgren has said before that he's turned down numerous requests for Giroux and JVR.

Cheers to answering that one.

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12-20-2010, 12:17 PM
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There's a reason NWO is blocked.

If the Flyers were so eager to get rid of JVR, why isn't he moved?

Let's ignore the fact that Holmgren has said before that he's turned down numerous requests for Giroux and JVR.

Cheers to answering that one.
Cry sally cry, oh my god I am blocked. You da man Cliff.

Who said they were so eager to move him? If they are then maybe they didnít receive the package they have in mind if they do decide to move him. It isnít rocket science Cliff, isnít that what you like to say?

When in the past has shooter said he wont be moving jvr? Well you know what, the key word being in the past. Things change Cliff, do they not? I mean it is unheard of for a gm to say he isnít moving a player,then said player is moved. That never happens. But if you said he isnít being moved it is now fact.

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