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Old
12-20-2010, 12:19 PM
  #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
There's a reason NWO is blocked.

If the Flyers were so eager to get rid of JVR, why isn't he moved?

Let's ignore the fact that Holmgren has said before that he's turned down numerous requests for Giroux and JVR.

Cheers to answering that one.
Shafer I am liking you more and more by the day. Some honest to goodness well thought out takes that go against the boards. No wonder you are so unpopular around here. JVR IMO is still worth the 2nd overall pick in the 2007 draft. He was taken there, should have been taken there. A team would easily give up their first (even a lottery pick this year, since there are no bonifide stars in this draft) to get JVR. And to think, they wouldn't even have to go through the growth years - they just fast forward to his production years. And get to sign him as an RFA while they have all the cards.

29 teams in the NHL would take JVR for a first round pick. IMO.

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12-20-2010, 12:25 PM
  #52
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I've taken a lot of heat on this board for saying things that while said by me, were stupid but inevitably became popular opinion. (i.e. biron was a bust, stevens should be canned, leighton was a flash in the pan)...I am sure we can agree at least on those, though when I said them, everyone got on my case...

Get rid of JVR...right now we are counting on his intangibles to become more than that. There is no gaurantee he's going to end up being what we drafted him with the hopes of...which shouldn't surprise anyone considering we picked him way ahead of where he should have went. He is not a #2 overall, only by our standards. He is not strong on the puck (trust me I know, he is still "young") but I think he is going to be a 20 goal scorer for life...in fact he reminds me of Carter yet without that great shot and less speed. If we want a player with half the shot, half the speed and half the heart as Carter, rather than take a first round draft pick, then we deserve to be disappointed.

If anyone offers us a first round pick and a decent, low-cost player, take it...otherwise find a time machine and draft Turris instead of JVR

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12-20-2010, 12:37 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phillyfanatic View Post
Shafer I am liking you more and more by the day. Some honest to goodness well thought out takes that go against the boards. No wonder you are so unpopular around here. JVR IMO is still worth the 2nd overall pick in the 2007 draft. He was taken there, should have been taken there. A team would easily give up their first (even a lottery pick this year, since there are no bonifide stars in this draft) to get JVR. And to think, they wouldn't even have to go through the growth years - they just fast forward to his production years. And get to sign him as an RFA while they have all the cards.

29 teams in the NHL would take JVR for a first round pick. IMO.
He's not going to be worth a 2nd overall pick. You can think he is, but he's just not. It was a weak draft class, and most organization now almost outright expect a 1st or 2nd overall pick to make immediate progress as an 18-year-old if not take the NHL by storm in their first season.

JVR was always going to be a project, and regardless of how annoyed Holmgren might have been at his decision to go to college for two years, results don't lie.

He's on pace for 41 points without PP time. He plays responsibly defensively, even though he's certainly not winning any Selkes right now, and he's playing VERY well on the forecheck.

Even Strength Points:
Richards - 9 - 14 - 23 P - 0.68 EVPPG - 56 EVP pace/82 GP
Giroux - 10 - 13 - 23 P - 0.68 EVPPG - 56 EVP pace/82 GP
Briere - 12 - 7 - 19 P - 0.61 EVPPG - 50 EVP pace/82 GP
Carter - 10 - 9 - 19 P - 0.56 EVPPG - 46 EVP pace/82 GP
Hartnell - 7 - 11 - 18 P - 0.53 EVPPG - 43 EVP pace/82 GP
Leino - 6 - 11 - 17 P - 0.50 EVPPG - 41 EVP pace/82 GP
Nodl - 7 - 5 - 12 P - 0.48 EVPPG - 39 EVP pace/82 GP
vanRiemsdyk - 6 - 8 - 14 P - 0.47 EVPPG - 39 EVP pace/82 GP
Zherdev - 12 - 1 - 13 P - 0.42 EVPPG - 34 EVP pace/82 GP

Strip it down to pure EV totals and vanRiemsdyk is pacing only 7 less points than Carter, 4 less points than Hartnell, and 2 less points than Leino.

But...but...but...he's not producing.

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12-20-2010, 12:44 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyersMania2 View Post
I've taken a lot of heat on this board for saying things that while said by me, were stupid but inevitably became popular opinion. (i.e. biron was a bust, stevens should be canned, leighton was a flash in the pan)...I am sure we can agree at least on those, though when I said them, everyone got on my case...
Biron, if I recall correctly, was one of a handful of goalies to put together back-to-back 0.915+ SV% seasons.

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Originally Posted by FlyersMania2 View Post
Get rid of JVR...right now we are counting on his intangibles to become more than that.
We're not really counting on intangibles...that's a completely false statement.

The kid is 21 years old, and we live under the assumption that his production is forever stalled and that our last hope is that he becomes a Richards-esque forward with less offensive output?

God, I'm sure you wanted Richards, Carter, and Giroux traded at 21 too...

I really hope you're not banking on JVR for Selke, because he's a lot closer to a 90 point season than a Selke trophy, and the funny thing is that he's not even that bad defensively.

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Originally Posted by FlyersMania2 View Post
There is no gaurantee he's going to end up being what we drafted him with the hopes of...which shouldn't surprise anyone considering we picked him way ahead of where he should have went. He is not a #2 overall, only by our standards. He is not strong on the puck (trust me I know, he is still "young") but I think he is going to be a 20 goal scorer for life...in fact he reminds me of Carter yet without that great shot and less speed. If we want a player with half the shot, half the speed and half the heart as Carter, rather than take a first round draft pick, then we deserve to be disappointed.
Not being a "traditional" #2 pick does not immediately make him worthless.

I wonder how many 2007 teams with busts are wishing they had a shot at JVR right now...

JVR is playing well now, and producing well now. But you think because he's not living up to expectations we should throw him away for a late round roll of the dice, who we HOPE turns into what JVR is now?

Give me a break.

Over in the Zherdev thread, you're talking up a guy who is a constant defensive liability, who overstays his shifts, and who forces himself into selfish plays that end up backfiring. Meanwhile you're over here claiming that a 21-year-old doing all the right things on the ice, helping with the forecheck, rarely screwing up defensively, and out-producing this so-called "high-flying production machine" with multiple 50+ point seasons under his belt is not doing enough to make you want to keep him here.

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12-20-2010, 12:51 PM
  #55
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YES intangibles...we are counting on him filling out and becoming strong on the puck, the next "John LeClair" - I am saying that I'm betting he won't be that, and he MAY end up being a late bloomer but when u pick a #2 (which richards and giroux weren't)...u hope and EXPECT them to be closer to Patrick Kane/Sid Crosby/Ovechkin...not Horton (via Florida Panthers years)...so by the time he REALIZES his potential, we probably won't have him, so take what you can get now.

And I never wanted Giroux gone...Giroux's pre-Flyers years in the canadian junior system are impressive, JVR's brief stint with college hockey (if he is so good why UNH?) is less than impressive and I do think he could stand to play with more heart. None of his characteristics point to what you should get for a #2 overall.

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12-20-2010, 01:00 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyersMania2 View Post
YES intangibles...we are counting on him filling out and becoming strong on the puck, the next "John LeClair" - I am saying that I'm betting he won't be that, and he MAY end up being a late bloomer but when u pick a #2 (which richards and giroux weren't)...u hope and EXPECT them to be closer to Patrick Kane/Sid Crosby/Ovechkin...not Horton (via Florida Panthers years)...so by the time he REALIZES his potential, we probably won't have him, so take what you can get now.
JVR is much closer to being a Jeff Carter that is a better passer and a lesser shooter than he is to ever being like John LeClair.

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Originally Posted by FlyersMania2 View Post
And I never wanted Giroux gone...Giroux's pre-Flyers years in the canadian junior system are impressive, JVR's brief stint with college hockey (if he is so good why UNH?) is less than impressive and I do think he could stand to play with more heart. None of his characteristics point to what you should get for a #2 overall.
You realize that JVR was really the only player at UNH, and led his team into the playoffs while there as the only player at UNH. People make too much of production value per peers and ignore the realistic reason why such production exists. If people realized that stats are a compliment to help you judge what you see with your own eyes instead of a reality in and of themselves, we'd have a lot more rational people on this board.

You keep bringing up the fact that he's 2nd overall.

Did you know Hartnell was 6th overall? That Zherdev was 4th?

Did you know Parise was 17th and Gagne was 22nd?

Position doesn't matter. The player is what the player is.

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12-20-2010, 01:06 PM
  #57
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I agree that he is comprable to Carter and as much as I am not pro-Carter, I can agree that Carter has been a force so far. My problem is that JVR is weak on the puck and uninspired. If it's any consolation, I can believe that Hartnell is a number 6 pick but does that make it any better that we can compare JVR's high draft to Hartnell's? No, if anything u are making the argument that like JVR, Hartnell was drafted higher than his production has been, especially when you note that Gagne was a lower 1st rounder...we were lucky to get Gagne and Giroux when we got them and have them turn out to be so good - in saying that you are substantiating the fact that JVR does not live up to a 2nd overall when comparing the likes of Hartnell (being high) and Gagne (lower in the 1st)...you are simply agreeing that (like most agents) JVR should have went lower...and with our pick, we probably could have picked better.

Personally, besides the lack of heart Zherdev's skillset is that of a higher caliber player. But is JVR's? Is his skillset comparable to recent 1-5 1st round picks?

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12-20-2010, 01:18 PM
  #58
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Why worry about stats?the jvr carter zherdev line is picking up:
All 6 '3" players with speed finisse and skill...and its not even our top line
o_0

Carter is to richards
As
Jvr is to giroooux

...jvr will stay

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12-20-2010, 01:20 PM
  #59
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I just don't see it with JVR - sorry to rain on the parade. To be honest, I felt that I had to chime in now because later down the road there is going to be some sort of anti-JVR sentiment that goes around and I will be the "told ya so" person...that's the way it always goes.

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12-20-2010, 01:23 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by FlyersMania2 View Post
I agree that he is comprable to Carter and as much as I am not pro-Carter, I can agree that Carter has been a force so far. My problem is that JVR is weak on the puck and uninspired.
Except that JVR really is neither weak on the puck or uninspired.

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Originally Posted by FlyersMania2 View Post
If it's any consolation, I can believe that Hartnell is a number 6 pick but does that make it any better that we can compare JVR's high draft to Hartnell's? No, if anything u are making the argument that like JVR, Hartnell was drafted higher than his production has been,
The higher you are drafted doesn't mean the expectations for production are higher.

Hartnell was drafted because he's a certain type of player.

JVR was chosen over Turris because he's a certain type of player.

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Originally Posted by FlyersMania2 View Post
especially when you note that Gagne was a lower 1st rounder...we were lucky to get Gagne and Giroux when we got them and have them turn out to be so good - in saying that you are substantiating the fact that JVR does not live up to a 2nd overall when comparing the likes of Hartnell (being high) and Gagne (lower in the 1st)...you are simply agreeing that (like most agents) JVR should have went lower...and with our pick, we probably could have picked better.
JVR should've gone lower than who?

He's been better than Turris so far, who went 3.

Gagner is far more like a Kane, and those type of players do not normally take anywhere near as long to develop.

Voracek at 7 is better.

Hamill certainly isn't doing all that much. Couture is in a breakout season, but again he's a different type of player than JVR and is getting far more opportunities to score in San Jose than JVR is getting here.

Sutter certainly isn't exactly "wow"ing anyone in Carolina though he has been alright.

Eller is a poor man's Giroux and fairly overrated, but what Canadien isn't?

Gillies, MacMillan, Esposito, and R. Nash are NHL ghosts.

Pacioretty, another powerforward, has spent his time up and down between the AHL and NHL. Hyped like most Canadiens' prospects, he's been just alright. He honestly was my 2nd favorite forward in the draft though.

Backlund is looking more and more like nothing special for Calgary. Meanwhile P. White has done pretty much nothing in 4 years of college. O'Brien is another ghost.

Perron looks awesome, but he hasn't hit over 50 points yet, while getting plenty of opportunities in St. Louis.

That's it for the first round.

You pretty much got Kane, Gagner, and Voracek that are better than JVR right now hands down. Perron, Pacioretty, Sutter, and Eller might be able to make a case with Perron the only one of those with a real dog in the fight.

But, you're quick to throw JVR out? Why?

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Originally Posted by FlyersMania2 View Post
Personally, besides the lack of heart Zherdev's skillset is that of a higher caliber player. But is JVR's? Is his skillset comparable to recent 1-5 1st round picks?
Zherdev is 4 years older than JVR, and not even producing as much as him. He's certainly not playing as well as him over the span of the season.

Just because players are flashy doesn't mean they're better.

Zherdev has the skillset to be better than Richards and Carter as well. Is he?

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12-20-2010, 01:24 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by FlyersMania2 View Post
I just don't see it with JVR - sorry to rain on the parade. To be honest, I felt that I had to chime in now because later down the road there is going to be some sort of anti-JVR sentiment that goes around and I will be the "told ya so" person...that's the way it always goes.
Were you one of the Nodl haters too?

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12-20-2010, 01:30 PM
  #62
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Negative...I think Nodl exceeds expectations...though based on the Pens game, I think Laviolette should feed him some protein shakes and big macs because he got pushed around a bit...

My issues have been the Esche/Biron/Emery/Leighton experience - all of those goalies who were inconsistent and often have-beens/never-weres that we thought we could save and would be our saviors...

biggest issue of all was probably Randy Jones...definitely a Stevens thing. Maybe because Stevens was from the same home town but never cut it in the big leagues so Jones would for him...terrible d-man that we kept way too long

I liked Nitty and Bouch and often got flack for that from everyone on here...otherwise, I love our current roster besides the occasional half-hearted performances from Carter or Zherdev or JVR...though Zherdev I am a big fan of (so much fun to watch)

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12-20-2010, 01:33 PM
  #63
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Except that JVR really is neither weak on the puck or uninspired.


Zherdev is 4 years older than JVR, and not even producing as much as him. He's certainly not playing as well as him over the span of the season.

Just because players are flashy doesn't mean they're better.

Zherdev has the skillset to be better than Richards and Carter as well. Is he?
He is weak on the puck and is constantly doing the one-hand on the stick thing to catch a pass or to pass to another player...which (unless you are highly skilled) is being lazy and thus, he is uninspired.

Why is everyone so impressed with him...he can hardly finish his own plays and when he does score, it's usually Hartnell-esque, not that of a high player.

Zherdev aside (who I do admit IS uninspired but has the stick-handling/skating of an elite player)...who in the recent drafts (say last 4 years) that's been in the top 5 is comparable to JVR

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12-20-2010, 01:37 PM
  #64
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Negative...I think Nodl exceeds expectations...though based on the Pens game, I think Laviolette should feed him some protein shakes and big macs because he got pushed around a bit...

My issues have been the Esche/Biron/Emery/Leighton experience - all of those goalies who were inconsistent and often have-beens/never-weres that we thought we could save and would be our saviors...
Biron was inconsistent. Esche was...well Esche. Leighton was just terrible. And Emery was great until the career ending disease thing.

Biron and Emery were definitely two of the better goalies the Flyers have had since Hextall though. There's no reason to hate them.

[QUOTE=FlyersMania2;29681984]biggest issue of all was probably Randy Jones...definitely a Stevens thing. Maybe because Stevens was from the same home town but never cut it in the big leagues so Jones would for him...terrible d-man that we kept way too long[QUOTE]

Jones was awful, but he's no longer our problem.

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I liked Nitty and Bouch and often got flack for that from everyone on here...
Well neither were better than Emery or Biron. Niitty could've been, but he was hurt way too much. That's why the Flyers stepped away from him.

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otherwise, I love our current roster besides the occasional half-hearted performances from Carter or Zherdev or JVR...though Zherdev I am a big fan of (so much fun to watch)
Don't know why Carter is viewed as lazy. It's the same bizarre thing that I hear about JVR, even though it's really not true.

Zherdev was floating around for a while but has looked reinvented since he was benched. Lazy is not the word to describe. In fact, it's pretty much the opposite of lazy. He tries to do too much without worrying about the consequences.

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He is weak on the puck and is constantly doing the one-hand on the stick thing to catch a pass or to pass to another player...which (unless you are highly skilled) is being lazy and thus, he is uninspired.
Watch JVR a little more carefully instead of just randomly noticing him. He does a lot of good things on the ice.

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Why is everyone so impressed with him...he can hardly finish his own plays and when he does score, it's usually Hartnell-esque, not that of a high player.
It's not that anyone is particularly "impressed" with him, it's just that there's no real reason to hate him. He works hard, he does his job, he produces as much as he can, and he's cheap. What's not to like?

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Originally Posted by FlyersMania2 View Post
Zherdev aside (who I do admit IS uninspired but has the stick-handling/skating of an elite player)...who in the recent drafts (say last 4 years) that's been in the top 5 is comparable to JVR
2003:
2nd - E. Staal is E. Staal.
3rd - Horton is finally showing signs of life after years of "flashes."
4th - Zherdev has been all over the map as everyone knows.
5th - Vanek is getting paid like an all-star, but Vanek's level certainly isn't out of the question for JVR.

2004:
1st - Ovechkin is Ovechkin.
2nd - Malkin is Malkin, though he's certainly nothing special lately.
4th - 24-year-old Ladd is finally having a breakout season.
5th - Look how many Boston fans are trying to get value for Wheeler and that should be all you need to know.

2005:
1st - Crosby is Crosby.
2nd - Ryan, much like JVR now, was considered a bust until breaking out a little later than expected.
4th - Pouliot is pretty "meh" so far.

2006:
2nd - J. Staal is awesome defensively, but where's this supposed offensive surge he was supposed to show? He's yet to break 50.
3rd - Toews is Toews.
4th - Backstrom is Backstrom.
5th - Kessel sucks defensively and certainly isn't putting up tons of points. Granted it's Toronto, but being better than Kessel certainly isn't out of reach for JVR.

2007:
1st - P. Kane is P. Kane.
2nd - JVR is who we're discussing.
3rd - Turris sure as hell isn't doing anything special.

2008:
1st - Stamkos is Stamkos.

2009:
1st - Tavares is pretty good so far.
3rd - Duchene as well.
4th - As is E. Kane.
5th - B. Schenn looks like he'll be good, but this was a great year to need a forward in the first 5 picks.

2010:
1st - Hall is breaking out.
2nd - Seguin hasn't done anything really noteworthy yet.
4th - Johansen is having a solid year in the WHL.
5th - Niederreiter is having a solid year in the WHL as well after getting sent back.

So it's not like JVR is completely out of place among top 5 forward picks.


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12-20-2010, 01:41 PM
  #65
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Biron and Emery better than both? Kidding, right? I remember watching the Ducks/Senators SCF and thinking how glad I was that Emery was not the Flyers goalie...he is inconsistent and over-rated. How can you say he IS better than Nitty definitively?

In terms of Nitty, he was behind the worst defense in the NHL, playing with two bad hips and an incapable backup...yet Stevens and the Flyers org. had no trouble throwing him under the bus as the cause of our last place season.

If we had Nitty, heck if even we had Esche (well maybe not) we could have probably won the cup last year.

Lazy...uninspired, same thing. Carter and JVR have been guilty of playing with half batteries...Zherdev, idk, I haven't seen him lazy as of late

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12-20-2010, 01:54 PM
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Carter plays on half battery? First I have heard this. I have heard many criticisms of him (shoots high, doesn't see the open man, etc) but never that he is not giving an A for effort. There is a reason he is one of the best defensive players on the team. He works hard every shift.

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12-20-2010, 01:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyersMania2 View Post
Biron and Emery better than both? Kidding, right? I remember watching the Ducks/Senators SCF and thinking how glad I was that Emery was not the Flyers goalie...he is inconsistent and over-rated. How can you say he IS better than Nitty definitively?

In terms of Nitty, he was behind the worst defense in the NHL, playing with two bad hips and an incapable backup...yet Stevens and the Flyers org. had no trouble throwing him under the bus as the cause of our last place season.

If we had Nitty, heck if even we had Esche (well maybe not) we could have probably won the cup last year.
We could've won the cup last year with a lot of guys.

Niity was thrown under the "bus" because he was having hip problems. Nothing more, nothing less.

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Lazy...uninspired, same thing. Carter and JVR have been guilty of playing with half batteries...Zherdev, idk, I haven't seen him lazy as of late
I have a tendency to write off people who call Carter and JVR lazy. Consider this my way of quietly judging you.

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Carter plays on half battery? First I have heard this. I have heard many criticisms of him (shoots high, doesn't see the open man, etc) but never that he is not giving an A for effort. There is a reason he is one of the best defensive players on the team. He works hard every shift.
You obviously haven't met Cartsiephan. He seems to want Carter dead.

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12-20-2010, 01:59 PM
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Were you one of the Nodl haters too?
I got ripped to shreds for defending him. Should go back and look at that thread. Of course now that he is playing well - those that were hating on him are still right. Because at the time he wasn't scoring and seeing any positives at the time would have been crazy.

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12-20-2010, 02:00 PM
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You obviously haven't met Cartsiephan. He seems to want Carter dead.
True. Other than that.

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12-20-2010, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Biron was inconsistent. Esche was...well Esche. Leighton was just terrible. And Emery was great until the career ending disease thing.

2003:
2nd - E. Staal is E. Staal.
3rd - Horton is finally showing signs of life after years of "flashes."
4th - Zherdev has been all over the map as everyone knows.
5th - Vanek is getting paid like an all-star, but Vanek's level certainly isn't out of the question for JVR.

2004:
1st - Ovechkin is Ovechkin.
2nd - Malkin is Malkin, though he's certainly nothing special lately.
4th - 24-year-old Ladd is finally having a breakout season.
5th - Look how many Boston fans are trying to get value for Wheeler and that should be all you need to know.

2005:
1st - Crosby is Crosby.
2nd - Ryan, much like JVR now, was considered a bust until breaking out a little later than expected.
4th - Pouliot is pretty "meh" so far.

2006:
2nd - J. Staal is awesome defensively, but where's this supposed offensive surge he was supposed to show? He's yet to break 50.
3rd - Toews is Toews.
4th - Backstrom is Backstrom.
5th - Kessel sucks defensively and certainly isn't putting up tons of points. Granted it's Toronto, but being better than Kessel certainly isn't out of reach for JVR.

2007:
1st - P. Kane is P. Kane.
2nd - JVR is who we're discussing.
3rd - Turris sure as hell isn't doing anything special.

2008:
1st - Stamkos is Stamkos.

2009:
1st - Tavares is pretty good so far.
3rd - Duchene as well.
4th - As is E. Kane.
5th - B. Schenn looks like he'll be good, but this was a great year to need a forward in the first 5 picks.

2010:
1st - Hall is breaking out.
2nd - Seguin hasn't done anything really noteworthy yet.
4th - Johansen is having a solid year in the WHL.
5th - Niederreiter is having a solid year in the WHL as well after getting sent back.

So it's not like JVR is completely out of place among top 5 forward picks.
I see your point and in saying such, don't see how you can't see mine. I said JVR is comparable to Horton...and by the time he breaks out (if ever) he probably won't be on the Flyers. In saying such, of all the top fives listed, pick any from any class, and I assure you that you wouldn't be choosing to have the "star"-in-waiting, you would pick Crosby, Ovechkin, etc...so why should we be content with having the top 5 who hasn't become a star yet?

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12-20-2010, 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted by FlyersMania2 View Post
so why should we be content with having the top 5 who hasn't become a star yet?
Why should we be content with the $200 in our pocket instead of $20,000 we could have if we went to Vegas?

Thus is life. Sometimes you get Cam Barker and sometimes you get Jonathan Toews.

Sometimes, even if you don't get Sidney Crosby every draft, sometimes you settle for J. Staal because it could be soooo much more disappointing.

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12-20-2010, 02:11 PM
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Do we have a Staal? No. So, in going back in time Gagner should have been drafted where JVR was and vice versa

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12-20-2010, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by FlyersMania2 View Post
Do we have a Staal? No.
It's not like Staal is Crosby. JVR certainly has the potential to be better than Staal. Then again, I consider Bobby Ryan better than Staal, and JVR has similar potential to Bobby Ryan, only a little less physical.

It's not exactly far-fetched either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyersMania2 View Post
So, in going back in time Gagner should have been drafted where JVR was and vice versa
Going back in time, do you think the Penguins care all that much that they drafted J. Staal instead of Toews, Backstrom, or Giroux?

All three are better than Staal, but I doubt it's keeping the Penguins awake at night.

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12-20-2010, 02:23 PM
  #74
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Shafer has won this thread. If JVR starts putting up serious points, i'm going to come back here and do the "i told you so" until your eyes bleed.

People are so impatient it's unbelievable.

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12-20-2010, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by FlyersMania2 View Post
I see your point and in saying such, don't see how you can't see mine. I said JVR is comparable to Horton...and by the time he breaks out (if ever) he probably won't be on the Flyers. In saying such, of all the top fives listed, pick any from any class, and I assure you that you wouldn't be choosing to have the "star"-in-waiting, you would pick Crosby, Ovechkin, etc...so why should we be content with having the top 5 who hasn't become a star yet?
That is the point I was making above. Don't be the team that trades JVR (IE. Horton) only to see him breakout. Horton has been awesome for Boston this year. JVR will breakout within the next 3 years. Either way, to think him a bust at this point would be completely irrationale. As discussed earlier, guys like Neely, Kerr, Leclair would have all been considered busts at the same point in their career. You just do not trade a 2nd overall pick who is 6'3 220LB's in his third year. Especially while he is in his RFA years.

If he comes asking for too high a salary, then yes you trade him......but why would we "dump" him now? He has so much potential. He is not a key guy right now. The Flyers have the luxury of not depending on their 2nd overall pick to produce immediately. So, we can sit back and wait and watch him develop. We will likely get him under contract at a low cap hit again due to his slow start. And then......boom, he will be a top 6 forward producing like a 2nd overall pick.

Sit back, be patient. We have the horses to let JVR develop correctly.

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