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Flyers tried to move JVR-no takers?

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Old
12-20-2010, 02:27 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by FlyersMania2 View Post
Get rid of JVR...right now we are counting on his intangibles to become more than that. There is no gaurantee he's going to end up being what we drafted him with the hopes of...which shouldn't surprise anyone considering we picked him way ahead of where he should have went. He is not a #2 overall, only by our standards. He is not strong on the puck (trust me I know, he is still "young") but I think he is going to be a 20 goal scorer for life...in fact he reminds me of Carter yet without that great shot and less speed. If we want a player with half the shot, half the speed and half the heart as Carter, rather than take a first round draft pick, then we deserve to be disappointed.

If anyone offers us a first round pick and a decent, low-cost player, take it...otherwise find a time machine and draft Turris instead of JVR
I'm a Canucks fan and this "can't shoot the puck" statement was thrown around wildly about Kesler as well even after the Bobby Clarke offersheet. Here he is 4 years later on a 40g pace with 15 in his first 30gp. People said he had no vision, always had his head down looking at the puck and would never be a set up guy. He had 50 assists last year.

Sometimes you've just got to be a little more patient. Kesler is now 26 years old and only now busting out, how old is JVR?

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12-20-2010, 02:28 PM
  #77
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Shafer has won this thread. If JVR starts putting up serious points, i'm going to come back here and do the "i told you so" until your eyes bleed.

People are so impatient it's unbelievable.
That would be funny. Once a thread is clearly won - Mod closes it with "Shafer wins". That would make things interesting around here.

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12-20-2010, 02:31 PM
  #78
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I'm a Canucks fan and this "can't shoot the puck" statement was thrown around wildly about Kesler as well even after the Bobby Clarke offersheet. Here he is 4 years later on a 40g pace with 15 in his first 30gp. People said he had no vision, always had his head down looking at the puck and would never be a set up guy. He had 50 assists last year.

Sometimes you've just got to be a little more patient. Kesler is now 26 years old and only now busting out, how old is JVR?
Voice of reason. Great point. There are a hundred guys you could put in the example. JVR is 21 - basically well past his prime

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12-20-2010, 02:32 PM
  #79
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That is the point I was making above. Don't be the team that trades JVR (IE. Horton) only to see him breakout. Horton has been awesome for Boston this year. JVR will breakout within the next 3 years. Either way, to think him a bust at this point would be completely irrationale. As discussed earlier, guys like Neely, Kerr, Leclair would have all been considered busts at the same point in their career. You just do not trade a 2nd overall pick who is 6'3 220LB's in his third year. Especially while he is in his RFA years.

If he comes asking for too high a salary, then yes you trade him......but why would we "dump" him now? He has so much potential. He is not a key guy right now. The Flyers have the luxury of not depending on their 2nd overall pick to produce immediately. So, we can sit back and wait and watch him develop. We will likely get him under contract at a low cap hit again due to his slow start. And then......boom, he will be a top 6 forward producing like a 2nd overall pick.

Sit back, be patient. We have the horses to let JVR develop correctly.
what happens if he truns into isbister, adam creighton , or chris wells or any other guy that had size and what many peopls though were great skills at the time.

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12-20-2010, 02:35 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
Shafer has won this thread. If JVR starts putting up serious points, i'm going to come back here and do the "i told you so" until your eyes bleed.

People are so impatient it's unbelievable.
Not just impatient, but delusional. Anyone ever remember this person posting anything before?

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12-20-2010, 02:54 PM
  #81
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what happens if he truns into isbister, adam creighton , or chris wells or any other guy that had size and what many peopls though were great skills at the time.
Why not wait and see? The point is, there is a very clear case that states: You will not know whether he will be a good power forward until 5 years into his career. It has been the case with hundreds of players. There is literally NO REASON to think JVR will be a bust at this point in his career nor can I make a case that he is a lock to be a star! He is 21, he is 6'3, he has good hands, he has an outstanding junior career. He is an RFA.....if he doesn't produce, he doesn't get paid big money. So we get him on a cheap contract next time out. If he doesn't produce, then you have a busted draft pick - it happens.

However - giving up on a pick before he is SUPPOSED to produce makes no sense. Lets say we go your route and trade him for a pick. At what point will we give up on that pick and trade him for another pick? Cause if we trade JVR for a pick, we have to expect it will be 3-5 years before he is making an impact (IE. Giroux). Why not wait 1-2 years to see if the draft pick from 2 years ago fulfills his draft expectation instead of starting over again? I just don't get the logic.

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12-20-2010, 02:59 PM
  #82
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That would be funny. Once a thread is clearly won - Mod closes it with "Shafer wins". That would make things interesting around here.
Heh heh, i like this idea lol

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12-20-2010, 03:01 PM
  #83
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Why not wait and see? The point is, there is a very clear case that states: You will not know whether he will be a good power forward until 5 years into his career. It has been the case with hundreds of players. There is literally NO REASON to think JVR will be a bust at this point in his career nor can I make a case that he is a lock to be a star! He is 21, he is 6'3, he has good hands, he has an outstanding junior career. He is an RFA.....if he doesn't produce, he doesn't get paid big money. So we get him on a cheap contract next time out. If he doesn't produce, then you have a busted draft pick - it happens.

However - giving up on a pick before he is SUPPOSED to produce makes no sense. Lets say we go your route and trade him for a pick. At what point will we give up on that pick and trade him for another pick? Cause if we trade JVR for a pick, we have to expect it will be 3-5 years before he is making an impact (IE. Giroux). Why not wait 1-2 years to see if the draft pick from 2 years ago fulfills his draft expectation instead of starting over again? I just don't get the logic.
Maybe maybe not. I do not think he will be a power forward but that doesn’t mean he wont be a good player. Well you like to mention names of stars who panned out late, just keep in my mind the names of others who failed who also had many great things said about them at 1 time.

Well he didn’t play in juniors, he played in a weak college division. I never said to trade him, just looking at the other side of the coin, unlike what many many people on here refuse to do. I also don’t think jvr will get 5 years to see what kind of player he will be. This organization wont wait that long imo. Unless he really breaks out in the next year and ahlf, he wont be a star for the flyers.

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12-20-2010, 03:03 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by phillyfanatic View Post
That would be funny. Once a thread is clearly won - Mod closes it with "Shafer wins". That would make things interesting around here.
Oh my god. The mods are missing out on some serious "hate" potential here. I like this plan.

Then again, I'm a homer for myself and thus in favor of anything that rationally or irrationally supports me.

Anyway, like I said before, if you want JVR out, then you better have wanted Richards, Carter, and Giroux out when they were 21 as well. Otherwise, you're not exactly being consistent, whether or not that actually works in your favor anyway.

For those that say that I'm not an "insider" so I clearly can't "know" what's going on, I can tell you that just because I'm not Paul Holmgren, it doesn't mean I don't have a right to attack this as logically as possible. Moving JVR is just about as illogical a move you could make. You want to hate Holmgren? Well, moving JVR now would be akin to signing 3 Randy Jones, waiving them all, and then calling them up because "he's so awesome that he once got 30 points from the blueline!!!"


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12-20-2010, 03:08 PM
  #85
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Why not wait and see? The point is, there is a very clear case that states: You will not know whether he will be a good power forward until 5 years into his career. It has been the case with hundreds of players. There is literally NO REASON to think JVR will be a bust at this point in his career nor can I make a case that he is a lock to be a star! He is 21, he is 6'3, he has good hands, he has an outstanding junior career. He is an RFA.....if he doesn't produce, he doesn't get paid big money. So we get him on a cheap contract next time out. If he doesn't produce, then you have a busted draft pick - it happens.

However - giving up on a pick before he is SUPPOSED to produce makes no sense. Lets say we go your route and trade him for a pick. At what point will we give up on that pick and trade him for another pick? Cause if we trade JVR for a pick, we have to expect it will be 3-5 years before he is making an impact (IE. Giroux). Why not wait 1-2 years to see if the draft pick from 2 years ago fulfills his draft expectation instead of starting over again? I just don't get the logic.
I don't believe the original, alleged rumour that Homer even shopped JVR around. You'd think that one of the Philly writers might've mentioned it, or even someone on HockeyBuzz?

I agree, it makes no sense to even think about trading JVR.

He's just a big skinny kid, his diligent summer in the weight room notwithstanding. Some patience is required.

He's big and fast. I don't think he ever needs to be a LeClair-style power forward. He's a skill player with great reach. Great hands, great vision and creativity, great hockey sense. He's got a very good wrist shot too - so much so that he will be able to score from a distance the way Carter can.

As he's gotten heavier, his hitting has become more effective and he isn't afraid to go to the net (nor was he last year even after a couple concussions). Lavy even used him a bit on the PK earlier in the year, which shows he is playing some D too.

I think JVR is talented enought to score 35 goals in the NHL, but the problem is that he's playing on a really deep team, so he doesn't get any PP time or big ice time. He might not get there for a few years.

People need to have patience.

Ten years from now, picking him after Kane will still look like a good call.

Maybe Linus Omark (97) or PK Subban (43) were better options, but you can only hire good scouts and then take their research into account.

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12-20-2010, 03:11 PM
  #86
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Maybe Linus Omark (97) or PK Subban (43) were better options, but you can only hire good scouts and then take their research into account.
Subban's looking more and more like a problem child, and I can't help but get the feeling Omark is all flash, no substance. We'll see.

That said, if we really could re-do that draft, I'd LOVE to have Voracek, but outside of him (assuming Kane is off the table), I can't say that I'm too excited with Gagner or Perron or Turris or Eller or Pacioretty or anything else really to take them over JVR.

If JVR ends up the 3rd best forward from that class, which is certainly possible, maybe even probable, I'm more than content with the pick.

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12-20-2010, 03:18 PM
  #87
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Subban's looking more and more like a problem child, and I can't help but get the feeling Omark is all flash, no substance. We'll see.

That said, if we really could re-do that draft, I'd LOVE to have Voracek, but outside of him (assuming Kane is off the table), I can't say that I'm too excited with Gagner or Perron or Turris or Eller or Pacioretty or anything else really to take them over JVR.

If JVR ends up the 3rd best forward from that class, which is certainly possible, maybe even probable, I'm more than content with the pick.
Just using Linus and PK as examples, but you got the point - if a longshot turns out to be the next-best in the class, you really can't blame all the other teams that passed on them.

I don't see anybody else in that first round who projects to be as good as JVR, but if there is one, it's Voracek.

We'll have to see. I think they made a good choice.

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12-20-2010, 03:19 PM
  #88
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I have been down on JVR as much or more than anyone on this board. But im starting to see glimpses, and begining to really get excited about him. I think with each game his confidence is growing. I saw him try some things in the NYR game that i havent seen any flyer do. WHen he tried to split the two rangers defenders by jumping between them and sliding the puck past them didnt work, but the fact that he tried it was very encouraging.


Though i doubt his importance for this seasons run, I do believe he is a cornerstone for the future. We have a great present, but also a great future, and its important that we keep him long term. I definitely dont want to see him leave.

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12-20-2010, 03:25 PM
  #89
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Subban's looking more and more like a problem child, and I can't help but get the feeling Omark is all flash, no substance. We'll see.

That said, if we really could re-do that draft, I'd LOVE to have Voracek, but outside of him (assuming Kane is off the table), I can't say that I'm too excited with Gagner or Perron or Turris or Eller or Pacioretty or anything else really to take them over JVR.

If JVR ends up the 3rd best forward from that class, which is certainly possible, maybe even probable, I'm more than content with the pick.
While I agree about the "now". I agree on Voracek.....but the Flyer boards would have blown up if we took anyone but the obvious JVR, Turris, Kane at #2. Those three were the clear top 3 according to Central Scouting and all rankings. I think we have to wait a few years to see who was the best draft pick. Thomas Hickey, Karl Alzner have potential. Kyle Turris is this year playing much better. This just proves the point. It is too early to tell.

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12-20-2010, 03:28 PM
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I have been down on JVR as much or more than anyone on this board. But im starting to see glimpses, and begining to really get excited about him. I think with each game his confidence is growing. I saw him try some things in the NYR game that i havent seen any flyer do. WHen he tried to split the two rangers defenders by jumping between them and sliding the puck past them didnt work, but the fact that he tried it was very encouraging.


Though i doubt his importance for this seasons run, I do believe he is a cornerstone for the future. We have a great present, but also a great future, and its important that we keep him long term. I definitely dont want to see him leave.
Homer was quoted as saying Richards and Carter are untouchable and in no scenerio will they be traded. Those guys are now locked up for 10 years each. Now Homer is saying Giroux and JVR are untouchable. There is no reason to think he will jump ship early on those guys.

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12-20-2010, 03:39 PM
  #91
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While I agree about the "now". I agree on Voracek.....but the Flyer boards would have blown up if we took anyone but the obvious JVR, Turris, Kane at #2. Those three were the clear top 3 according to Central Scouting and all rankings. I think we have to wait a few years to see who was the best draft pick. Thomas Hickey, Karl Alzner have potential. Kyle Turris is this year playing much better. This just proves the point. It is too early to tell.
The kings fans have all but given up on hickey already. It's despressing to see actually. He's thrown into every trade offer as an add on.

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12-20-2010, 07:06 PM
  #92
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Not just impatient, but delusional. Anyone ever remember this person posting anything before?
Really? Under everyone's avatar it says how long someone has been a member and how many posts they have...I've been posting since we were in last place and have been posting and watching here and there since 07...when all the bandwagoners toast our coaches and GM when we r winning and curse them when we are not. Most of u love every player when the population does, not seeing their flaws (doesn't seem like the fans at the games who see the flaws) and curse the players when the org. does. Sorry I think for myself...its valid and reasonable to say that as a #2 pick JVR has been disappointing no matter how old he is or how long he has played. Like the rest of u I am entitled to my opinion and have had differing opinions than many of u and have even been right about players that everyone else has sweated. I think JVR WILL BE A BUST. Too early to congratulate anyone on winning this argument as we have yet to know if he is or not.

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12-20-2010, 07:37 PM
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Oh it's the dick measuring contest again. Well i stay up untill 3 in the morning to watch the flyers, so i'm a better fan that youuuuuuu.

oh and as for yourself
You wanted Carter traded instead of Umberger. For a "few peices" might I add. You almost got this one right............

You also wanted Gomez over Briere. How would you feel about that deal right now?

So far you have been sooooooooo right on those options.

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12-20-2010, 08:13 PM
  #94
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I am still not thrilled to have carter for life...besides the fact that his numbers make it impossible to be a flyers fan and still want him gone, can't say I've ever been a big fan...as for briere, half the ppl on this board would be liars if they said they liked him when he was on buffalo and wanted him here...he's one of my favorite players now, but don't act like I'm supposed to have a 100 percent accuracy on projected players that could end up here, can u say that? No...but doesn't change my mind about jvr...no one can make a valid argument FOR him bc he hasn't been here long enough, we can only predict and I predict he will be a bust. Still going to try to insult and yell at me to change my mind? Isn't gonna happen.

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12-21-2010, 04:55 PM
  #95
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So on December 11 Anthony San Filippo mentioned JVR was a name they were considering moving.

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Back to the Zherdev thing. #Flyers are looking to move salary to get Leighton back on the roster. Zherdev is one name they're talking about.
http://twitter.com/AnthonySan37/stat...45696729464833

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The others, I was told were/are Carcillo, JVR and Walker, but I've since been told Carcillo and JVR are not likely.
http://twitter.com/AnthonySan37/stat...46358737436672

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12-21-2010, 04:59 PM
  #96
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Jvr

I know for a fact if his name was put on thw wire there would be 30 teams intrested. Be in your best intrest too keep the sleeping beast. Cuz when he awakes this could be a future 30 goal scorer. Cant teach Size and Speed.

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12-21-2010, 10:14 PM
  #97
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Again, hard to emphasize how idiotic trading JVR would be.

Also, for the person saying his contract will be bad, JVR will be doing well to hit 20-25-45 this year and then might crack 50-60 next year...maybe, so he's not going going to be in line for a huge raise.
Now that JVR is finally playing with some confidence, we're starting to see the kind of player he can be. That's the only thing that was missing from his game. Looks like I was right about Giroux and you were right about JVR. I can live with that, as long as both stay on the team for a while.

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12-22-2010, 10:26 AM
  #98
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This thread is insane.

JvR STAYS!

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12-22-2010, 12:13 PM
  #99
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So on December 11 Anthony San Filippo mentioned JVR was a name they were considering moving.


http://twitter.com/AnthonySan37/stat...45696729464833



http://twitter.com/AnthonySan37/stat...46358737436672
I think I quoted the wrong thing...my question is why on earth do we want to get Leighton back on the roster???? Waive him and Walker (once he is healthy)...i think it's pretty clear that Leighton is NOT the answer and why mess with the good tandem we have right now?

And, getting rid of Zherdev????? SERIOUSLY? He has a skillset that IS the element of surprise we need...Leino and Giroux have it too but goalies are getting more used to their moves. ughhh sometimes it pains me to be a Flyers fan

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12-22-2010, 12:23 PM
  #100
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Well he didnít play in juniors, he played in a weak college division. I never said to trade him, just looking at the other side of the coin, unlike what many many people on here refuse to do. I also donít think jvr will get 5 years to see what kind of player he will be. This organization wont wait that long imo. Unless he really breaks out in the next year and ahlf, he wont be a star for the flyers.
this is completely false. do you even follow college hockey at all? HockeyEast is one of the strongest conferences in the NCAA. Look what BC, BU have done the last 4 years. Then you add in UNH and Maine for starters. Amazing all you want to do is look at the negative side of things.

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