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OT: Girl forced off of Boys Hockey Team

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Old
12-22-2010, 03:37 PM
  #51
esdoorn
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Here is the GTHA speakout operating policies and proceedures link:

http://www.gthlcanada.com/uploads/GT...arch_22_07.pdf

On page six point 4.4 it gives a definition of 'bullying' as any means to try to exclude or reject a person.

Clearly, this fellow has gone against a policy and proceedure of GTHA and should be suspended as per the section above for bullying.

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12-22-2010, 03:39 PM
  #52
Mr Wentworth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hatterson View Post
The issue isn't "Kid was treated unfairly by mean parent in minor hockey" it was "Girl forced off team cause she was a girl"

Those two issues are dramatically different.
Two things:
1) Are you missing the sarcasm face?
2) If not, I'm pretty sure my reading and/or comprehension skills are at an adult level. I do not see "Girl forced off team b/c she was a girl" anywhere.

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12-22-2010, 03:40 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by ReenMachine View Post
Girls shouldnt play with boys , hockey is a great way to ''hang out between boys'' even at a young age.I remember my childhood moments with the guys playing organized hockey , and really there's no place for a girl in that environnement.Before they are attracted to each other , boys and girls don't really hang out together ( normally ) and if they are old enough to be attracted , well a girl can change the dynamic of the team spirit.Not good.

Also , it can be very humiliating for some boys if the girl is better than them.Too bad for her but she should play with her own gender.
you either forgot this

or this

Either way, you're very entitled to your opinion, but wow

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12-22-2010, 03:45 PM
  #54
Mr Wentworth
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bravo....

now ell me how many boys have had a meeting like that called about THEM?

And now she's gone I take it we can expect a meeting about the second worst( now first worst) player?

come on, you can't be THAT naive..

even with the "Changing" situation.. he might as well have tried the ol' "black people aren't smart enough to be coaches/quaterbacks trick...

I've coached for years, and I've had girls on my teams for years and somehow the kids have been able to handle themselves alot better than the adults.. most of the younger ones (sorry to dissappoint some) never actually get naked and hence we've had co-ed changing rooms.. once their bodies start changing its remarkeably easy to designate an extra locker room for them to change, then get back to the main one to be with their teammates (why do people act like rinks come with just TWO changing rooms in this day and age?)

I have NEVER EVER heard ONE child complain about the presence of a girl on his team (beyond the usual,.. coach she hit me too hard one... those lil girls can me mean, I tell ya )

A quick online search yields the sudden absence of mr atis' face book page and apparently people are showing their displeasure by encouraging each other to call whatever legal body supervises him in canada...

at least he'll know that not everyone has the same cave beliefs as him


How fun would it be if we can get in touch with a parent on the team who wasn't on George Atis' side and get that parent to bring up an agenda at the next meeting about "How his kid is now scared about Mr. Atis bringing up a contract about his play."

http://www.georgejatis.com/my-reputation/
Something tells me his site was hacked:
Quote:
As a sole practitioner in this area, you can imagine that my reputation is everything – and I never compromise it for any one client. I wont back down from bullying a 12 year old girl if needed to reach my goal.
I am also not shy about letting my clients, especially my vendor clients, know when I think they are being unreasonable or unbalanced – which is one of the reasons that they keep coming back to me (I think).

Again, for those of you who do not know me, you should know that I do not do any formal advertising and I do not solicit business from new clients. The vast majority of my business is repeat business (from demanding but, fair clients) and any new clients typically come to me by word-of-mouth or directly from the client-side (following a negotiation), who are dissatisfied with their current lawyer (or firm) for various reasons.

If you are considering retaining me and would like a reference from a current or past client, please contact me and I would be glad to provide names and phone numbers –and letters of endorsement that I receive from time to time, which I believe truly reflect the way I practice.


I'll probably get a reprimand for this and/or it'll get edited out:
http://www.georgejatis.com/contact-me/


Last edited by Mr Wentworth: 12-22-2010 at 03:51 PM.
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Old
12-22-2010, 03:47 PM
  #55
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It's not for the parent to decide what's best for the team. That's the coach's job. Mr. Atis was completely out of line in terms of how he handled this, and trying to cast blame on the mother and grandmother is gutless and juvenile.

I would honestly have less of an issue with this if it was a request to remove her because she was a girl. You wanna say it's an all boys team or league, fine--there's plenty of leagues that do that and plenty of girls' leagues that do the same.

But this is bottom-level hockey for a bunch of 12 year olds and you're singling a kid out for not being talented enough. There is just no way that this idiot could ever justify that stance to me. He should stop meddling in the management of teams and simply enjoy the experience of watching his son play. But no, he's too stupid and narrow-minded to see anything other than a "weaker" player getting comparable ice time to his all star kid. (I hope no negative repurcussions are effected on his son because of his Dad's horses' assery).

Let the kids play and shut up.

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12-22-2010, 03:52 PM
  #56
Axxion89
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Originally Posted by the_speedster View Post
bravo....

now ell me how many boys have had a meeting like that called about THEM?

And now she's gone I take it we can expect a meeting about the second worst( now first worst) player?

come on, you can't be THAT naive..

even with the "Changing" situation.. he might as well have tried the ol' "black people aren't smart enough to be coaches/quaterbacks trick...

I've coached for years, and I've had girls on my teams for years and somehow the kids have been able to handle themselves alot better than the adults.. most of the younger ones (sorry to dissappoint some) never actually get naked and hence we've had co-ed changing rooms.. once their bodies start changing its remarkeably easy to designate an extra locker room for them to change, then get back to the main one to be with their teammates (why do people act like rinks come with just TWO changing rooms in this day and age?)

I have NEVER EVER heard ONE child complain about the presence of a girl on his team (beyond the usual,.. coach she hit me too hard one... those lil girls can me mean, I tell ya )

A quick online search yields the sudden absence of mr atis' face book page and apparently people are showing their displeasure by encouraging each other to call whatever legal body supervises him in canada...

at least he'll know that not everyone has the same cave beliefs as him
I agree with the fact that the dad Atis, the guy who brought this up, has some of that my kids going to be in the NHL syndrome theres no doubt. Also, calling a parents meeting and drafting up the agenda was overkill but what I'm talking about is the hurt feelings part. My point is don't act all surprised when someone calls you out for not being good. I'm all for equal opportunity and boys play with girls but if you suck, your going to find out one way or another. Hell I've played a variety of sports as a kid and I was chubby and I have heard from parents and players "hey you suck" and "that kid sucks". I just keep rolling along (no pun intended). If you told me she was playing in a house league where standing mean nothing and this all happened, I'd agree 100% with popular opinion. Fact is this is competitive hockey in Toronto so if you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen, be it from parents or players. And nobody forced her to play on the boys team because clearly there was girls teams out there. So in my opinion, its a shame that the girl got her feelings hurt but life isn't fair and its life experiences like this that make people better people.

PS - She wasn't forced off the team, she made that choice herself

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Old
12-22-2010, 03:53 PM
  #57
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I'm glad the parents are sending the message that "hockey shouldn't be about fun, it's about letting th best players play and having the crappy kids off the team", more kids should get that message.

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Old
12-22-2010, 03:56 PM
  #58
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Stuff like this makes a pretty good case for strictly segregated leagues in minor sports. Specifically, one league for the lawyers' kids and another for everybody else.

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Old
12-22-2010, 04:00 PM
  #59
the_speedster
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy Ivan View Post


How fun would it be if we can get in touch with a parent on the team who wasn't on George Atis' side and get that parent to bring up an agenda at the next meeting about "How his kid is now scared about Mr. Atis bringing up a contract about his play."

http://www.georgejatis.com/my-reputation/
Something tells me his site was hacked:




I'll probably get a reprimand for this and/or it'll get edited out:
http://www.georgejatis.com/contact-me/
I don't know what you're talking about....... "duchebag and technology counsel" sounds correct to me


His "statement" from the same website

December 22, 2010

Statement regarding the Kayla Watkins story:

Quote:
The issue with Kayla Watkins was one of several agenda items raised at the November 14, 2010 parents meeting. The 1st agenda item was a budget issue to deal with discrepancies in the budget for which Vanessa Watkins, Kayla’s mother, was (and is) responsible as the former “Team Manager”. Those budget discrepancies are still pending and Vanessa Watkins, in her capacity as Team Manager, will still have to answer for them.

...
Read the rest at his website.

what a ******... He couldn't take the coaches aside? I take it EVERY single person but HER on the team were top flight possible CHL draftees? please.. gimme a break. Its the same ol' over anxious hockey parent bull I've seen time and time again. If she was good enough to be picked on the team then she should be allowed to play. As a coach its alwas possible to find a way for a weak (if she was) player to fit into the team. This could only have been a problem if she was refusing to practice/listen etc... in stead the ****** tries to pull the.. "llook see? everyone thought what I did.. only I took the time, stayed up all night and drafted a JERRY MCGUIRE type memo expressing "our views" ...

I've already sent the dickwad a note and one to the LSUC (law society of upper canada).. IF he really wanted to use his skills for good he could've played mediator with the parents/coaches... but hey,.. now his little gretzky gets a chance to shine..
lookout for george jr at the 2016 draft... watchout crosby and ovechkin


Last edited by Mr. Canucklehead: 12-22-2010 at 04:08 PM. Reason: Edited out full statement.
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Old
12-22-2010, 04:09 PM
  #60
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^Jeez Laweez. This guy has one hell of an ego.

I'll re-state; this is the coach's responsibility. If there was an issue with the team, it should have been brought up with the coach.

That "statement" just stinks of someone who has a personal grudge against Mrs. and Mrs. Watkins and now the 12-year-old girl has suffered as a result. Stupid, petty, ignorant little worm.

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12-22-2010, 04:46 PM
  #61
the_speedster
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Originally Posted by Mr. Canucklehead View Post
^Jeez Laweez. This guy has one hell of an ego.

I'll re-state; this is the coach's responsibility. If there was an issue with the team, it should have been brought up with the coach.

That "statement" just stinks of someone who has a personal grudge against Mrs. and Mrs. Watkins and now the 12-year-old girl has suffered as a result. Stupid, petty, ignorant little worm.
the "my reputation" page.... gold!

Quote:
As a sole practitioner in this area, you can imagine that my reputation is everything and I never compromise it for any one client. I wont back down from bullying a 12 year old girl if needed to reach my goal.I am also not shy about letting my clients, especially my vendor clients, know when I think they are being unreasonable or unbalanced which is one of the reasons that they keep coming back to me (I think).
You'd think given the number of times we've come across these "cases" people would learn... yes the little shell of a world around you may be just like you but the WHOLE world isn't... why not find a quiet way to resolve issues?

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12-22-2010, 05:26 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Axxion89 View Post
PS - She wasn't forced off the team, she made that choice herself
She's 12 years old and she was called out in such a horrible and embarrassing fashion by an adult, should we dismiss every time a child steps away from a bad situation brought on by someone else and put it squarely on the that child? You seem to think 12 year old children should be emotionally prepared to handle being humilated like this, they are not.

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12-22-2010, 05:50 PM
  #63
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Again, this is clearly a violation of the risk and safety polices of GTHA and the board needs to nip this in the bud and suspend this fellow for the remainder of the year for his actions.

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12-22-2010, 06:11 PM
  #64
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Honestly, unless a coach is doing something out of line such as physically or emotionally abusing a kid, parents should shut their mouths and stay out of it.

You're always going to find something to complain about a coach; their practices, their lines, their method of encouragement, etc.

It's ridiculous that these parents are even given a voice. I've coached hockey before and what's worked for me is telling the parents I will not talk or email with any of them about the team or anything related to the team. I have them appoint a spokesperson and I only deal with them.

And most of the time, I laugh off whatever nonsense most parents complain about.

I tell them right off the bat that if they want to complain get their own team. I'm the one sacrificing my time to coach their kid. If they think they can do better, get your own team. That usually shuts them up.

This dad is an idiot. Who's he to determine who's bad or not. I can understand the issue of dressing with the boys, but everything else was a joke.

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12-22-2010, 07:05 PM
  #65
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I get the feeling that the people defending this guy's actions are the same ones who would have defended the youth league baseball coaches a few years back for intentionally walking the other team's slugger to pitch to the kid recovering from brain cancer.

http://www.ksl.com/?sid=415320&nid=148

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Old
12-22-2010, 07:51 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Canucklehead View Post
I would honestly have less of an issue with this if it was a request to remove her because she was a girl. You wanna say it's an all boys team or league, fine--there's plenty of leagues that do that and plenty of girls' leagues that do the same.

But this is bottom-level hockey for a bunch of 12 year olds and you're singling a kid out for not being talented enough. There is just no way that this idiot could ever justify that stance to me.


Seriously, what a gigantic freaking tool!

The gender discrimination crap is bad enough.....if the kid can play, then play.

Even still, as you say, I could PERHAPS be persuaded by the gender argument. I may not agree, but I definitely understand there is a place for single gender activities....opportunities for kids to get to interact with kids of their own gender, etc. Now, it would depend on the particulars such as the type of league, the existence of other girls in the league, the access to female teams/leagues, etc. I might not be persuaded, but at least that's an argument I'd be willing to entertain.

But calling a parents meeting to single out one specific player on a sub-.500 team in a low level youth league and specifically highlighting the poor play of one 12-year-old and going so far as to make a mission statement?!

I've heard and seen some crappy sports parents in my time, but that is a new all-time low.

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12-22-2010, 07:52 PM
  #67
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Girls that old should never be able to play on a boys team. Not after the age of 10, especially 12.

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12-22-2010, 08:00 PM
  #68
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Mr. Atis should be banned from youth hockey. Girl or boy, there's no excuse for a parent carrying on like that. Worse is that he was allowed to get that far without another parent or parents stepping up. I guess it doesn't say much for any of the parents that were involved.

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12-22-2010, 08:24 PM
  #69
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Hi all,

First post here so forgive me if I mess this up.

Let me get this straight these kids are playing in an A or "in house" league and this dad has the gull to say this girl ins't good enough. Isn't this the level that everyone is accepted because they don't have the skills to make an AA, AAA team but want to play? I have been playing hockey since I was 4 and have seen kids with all types of skill level in the in house leagues. Some who could have made a higher level, but couldn't due to the added expence, and some who couldn't even transisition. Where does this guy get off saying she doesn't belong? Maybe the bigger question is why isn't his son better?

Also to those of you saying girls shouldn't be playing with boys at this age, there really isn't a difference in strength until boys go through puberty. Once that happens, then yes, girls should be on an all girls team.

However I do agree with they need to have a seperate changing areas for a girls.

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12-22-2010, 08:32 PM
  #70
Axxion89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronnie Bass View Post
She's 12 years old and she was called out in such a horrible and embarrassing fashion by an adult, should we dismiss every time a child steps away from a bad situation brought on by someone else and put it squarely on the that child? You seem to think 12 year old children should be emotionally prepared to handle being humilated like this, they are not.
She basically found out that a parent said that she wasn't good enough to play on special teams and should have ice time cut, he didn't say that she was the crappiest player of all time or that she was a overweight low life who would never amount to anything. That is what I would deem to be horrible and humiliating. Is it a shame this happened, yes. Should the dad be banned from the team, probably. Was she forced off, nope. You're 12 years old, thats an old enough age to be able to take criticism and get over it, if not, you shouldn't be playing competitive sports to be honest.

I know it sounds very mean to say that but if you play competitively, there are going to be people who are going to call you out. This girl's parents should have done some basic research to see how competitive the league she is playing in is. They should have told her the pros and cons of playing with a team full of boys when there are girls teams. And further more, they should have either shut the guy up when he mentioned that or called him out. If that was my kid, you bet he'd either been yelled at our knocked out.

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Old
12-23-2010, 02:53 AM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Axxion89 View Post
You're 12 years old, thats an old enough age to be able to take criticism and get over it, if not, you shouldn't be playing competitive sports to be honest.

I know it sounds very mean to say that but if you play competitively, there are going to be people who are going to call you out.
Couple issues.

First, this is not AAA hockey or uber-elite prospect kiddos who will become the next Crosbys and Daigles. This is the lowest (relatively) competitive league. You should not be "calling kids out" at this level in any form or fashion except in the vein of constructive criticism, things that are designed to make them better while not so demoralizing them that they quit. While professional, college and junior hockey are all about winning at all costs, recreational and low-level youth hockey are about love of the game, physical fitness, camaraderie with teammates (and the amount of guys on here who think a team can't have the tight bond on it if a girl is on the team is stunning) and generally having a good time.

Second, the father of this other player has no standing with which to criticize someone else's child in a parent's meeting. If he is that invested in the team's performance, he should have signed up to be a coach. Upon failing to do that, he loses all rights to make ice time or position decisions. Any problems he has should be brought up to the coach one-on-one, and if the coach doesn't agree with his opinion, tough.

What he is doing is, ironically, a very 12-year-old girl form of manipulation - when the authority doesn't do something to your liking, attempt to peer pressure through other channels. Form a mob and ostracize the person you've singled out so that they have a rock-and-a-hard-place situation. Either stay and deal with those parents (and probably their kids) badmouthing you and bashing your play, give up ice time that you feel you've earned (since your coach continues to give it to you) and sit on the bench while they snicker about how right they are or quit. It's middle school all over again.

In what world does an agenda item at a parents' meeting about the performance of a 12 year old make any sense at all? They know this is freaking youth hockey, right?

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12-23-2010, 03:28 AM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Axxion89 View Post
She basically found out that a parent said that she wasn't good enough to play on special teams and should have ice time cut, he didn't say that she was the crappiest player of all time or that she was a overweight low life who would never amount to anything. That is what I would deem to be horrible and humiliating. Is it a shame this happened, yes. Should the dad be banned from the team, probably. Was she forced off, nope. You're 12 years old, thats an old enough age to be able to take criticism and get over it, if not, you shouldn't be playing competitive sports to be honest.

I know it sounds very mean to say that but if you play competitively, there are going to be people who are going to call you out. This girl's parents should have done some basic research to see how competitive the league she is playing in is. They should have told her the pros and cons of playing with a team full of boys when there are girls teams. And further more, they should have either shut the guy up when he mentioned that or called him out. If that was my kid, you bet he'd either been yelled at our knocked out.
A hockey isn't considered competitive, do you not understand that?

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Old
12-23-2010, 07:08 AM
  #73
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Boy, there sure are a lot of cavemen in here 'girls shouldn't be allowed to play with boys, etc etc etc.'

Obviously you're either jealous or have never played with 'good' girls, this is coming from the guy who he and his teammates lobbied our high school league to have us play our goaltender, who we had played with (some of us) for ~10 years. Just happened to be a girl and they wouldn't bend the rules; too bad since she was about 100 times better than the guy who replaced her, lame. I've played with many girls over my 'career' and even managed to play an entire season with 2 girls on my line (I was the LW) and it probably was my most productive season in minor hockey hah.

Also, I'm saddened to see things like this still happen to girls playing hockey, since the same thing happened to my aunt some 30+ years ago, she had been playing goal for 4 years, and by all accounts doing VERY GOOD at it until she reached peewee level and the other goalies parents bullied her so much she eventually quit, not because she wasn't any good, but because she was better than their son. Coach wanted her to play, obviously, but the parents took it all the way to the provincial minor hockey authority who finally sided with the parents claiming she should play in an all-girls league. Good luck trying to find one 30 years ago.... ********. The more things change the more they stay the same. My aunt is a crown prosecutor for the federal government now, maybe I should send this article to her see what she thinks about it

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12-23-2010, 07:18 AM
  #74
Gino 14
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Originally Posted by Axxion89 View Post
You're 12 years old, thats an old enough age to be able to take criticism and get over it, if not, you shouldn't be playing competitive sports to be honest.

Couple things are very obvious from your comments, you don't have kids and you don't know what you're talking about. Girl or boy, no kid should ever have to be subjected to that type of treatment from a group of adults, that's the type of thing that leaves scars for a lifetime. When you no longer live under someone else's wing and have kids of your own, come back and let us know if this is acceptable when it happens to someone you love.


Last edited by Gino 14: 12-23-2010 at 10:35 AM.
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12-23-2010, 07:36 AM
  #75
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Axxion89
No its not ok to call a 12 year old out.

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