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Old
12-23-2010, 03:15 PM
  #1
Dave33
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Kopi underrated?

Not by us, but the Kesler thread on the main board has lead me to this conclusion. Add in the thread by Dick Army, and it becomes pretty evident. There is one guy that ranks his defense below Spezza's which had me picking my jaw up off the floor.

So, why is Kopi so underrated? Why is that the rest of the fans don't realize how amazing his two way play is?

Maybe I am overrating him. I see him as a guy that plays defense well enough to garner a Selke nomination some day while chipping in at a PPG. I'm biased I guess, but am I wrong?

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12-23-2010, 03:22 PM
  #2
TwoForRoughing
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I still think he is underrated. He is like a second captain on the team. He is such a great leader, never gives any excuses. He's one of the BEST two-way players in the NHL and he's still only 23. What's not to like?!

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12-23-2010, 03:23 PM
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Totally agree Dave33. While his offensive abilities are awesome, his defensive game combined with the offense make him special. I've not read the thread you cited but he's obviously superior to the two names mentioned in your message, those of Kesler and Spezza.

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12-23-2010, 03:45 PM
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I think it may be residual from the Marc Crawford days. If you'll remember, Crawford's idea of teaching defense to young players was to scream profanities at them in practice.
In those days, Kopi routinely lost his man in the d-zone. After giving up a goal, I would turn to my wife regularly and say, "Kopi lost his man."
This is no longer true. Not in the least. In fact, he's extremely good at reading and breaking up plays defensively, keeping the puck along the boards, and getting it out of the zone. But I've a feeling most of the rest of the league - outside of the locker rooms - haven't realized that yet.

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12-23-2010, 04:06 PM
  #5
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Underrated, the only thing Kopi needs to improve on is driving to the net and winning more face-offs.

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12-23-2010, 04:24 PM
  #6
Mr Irreverent
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No. He's right where he should be, rated.

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12-23-2010, 04:31 PM
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He's at the same level as Olli Jokinen right ?

furthermore ... why would you take anything DickArmy says as serious anyways ?

edit: OK, OP, maybe it would help if you posted the threads you're talking about, I found the Kesler thread in the Main Lounge, and saw Dick Army defending Kopitar there ? though I didn't read through the whole thread, so is there some other thread where Dick Army is saying Kopitar is overratted ? or are you trying to say it ? Is someone somewhere saying Kopitar isn't a first line center, maybe a top 20 or even top 15 in the game today ? Not sure I'd agree he'll ever get a Selke nomination, but that's ok, he is defensively responsible MOST of the time, and that's all a coach can ask for from a guy who is also suppose to be your teams leading scorer.


Last edited by Puck U: 12-23-2010 at 05:49 PM.
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Old
12-23-2010, 04:33 PM
  #8
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I think he is. If Kopitar tries to impose his will offensively more often, then he won't be. It's consistency that he's missing. That shift against the Avs is a nice example of what he can do when everything is clicking for him, and he is very confident. I think he has all the makings of being a top ten center for many years, but it just depends on when it all clicks for him for good...

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12-23-2010, 04:40 PM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sybil227 View Post
I think it may be residual from the Marc Crawford days. If you'll remember, Crawford's idea of teaching defense to young players was to scream profanities at them in practice.
In those days, Kopi routinely lost his man in the d-zone. After giving up a goal, I would turn to my wife regularly and say, "Kopi lost his man."
This is no longer true. Not in the least. In fact, he's extremely good at reading and breaking up plays defensively, keeping the puck along the boards, and getting it out of the zone. But I've a feeling most of the rest of the league - outside of the locker rooms - haven't realized that yet.
I assumed you watched both the St.Louis and Chicago games. He is not ALWAYS busting his ass defensively. Most of the time, absolutely. But if you go back and watch the GWG in St.Louis, Kopi is gliding back through center ice, a couple strides away from the third man into the zone, Kopi was the third King back and because of a lack of effort the man who is Kopi's responsibility ended up with the puck on his stick in prime shooting area and got off a clean top shelf shot. Game, set, match. Ther is no doubt that had Kopi not been gliding for several seconds before, he would have been right next to his defensive assignment. 98 of 100 times that wont hurt you, and it wont be noticed. But it was obvious on the goal that was scored.

Now I'm not going to say that he's not underrated, and he has truly developed into a two-way center which he was not when he first came into the league, but to say he doesnt lose his man is just not honest.

Far more likely he's underrated because he plays in Los Angeles, and there isnt nearly the same media coverage here as there is in Canada or on the East Coast.

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12-23-2010, 05:01 PM
  #10
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He still has a bit of ways to go to be considered at an elite class. There have been tons of players who were terrific regular season producers (Dale Hawerchuk and Peter Stastny come to mind), but as highly regarded as they are, they never achieved success in the playoffs, and that is what seems to separate winners from really good players.

While Kopitar may be more talented than a Toews, he still has to show that he can help lead a team in the playoffs, something Toews has done.

I don't think he is underrated at all.

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12-23-2010, 05:37 PM
  #11
DeeMeck
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I think his defensive play is underrated.

He is definitely not surprising anyone anymore though. Teams are hitting him and shadowing him. I have been waiting for Kopi to take it up a notch and put up some points regardless.

I think what we are witnessing right now is a turning point in his career from star-to-superstar. He is absolutely dominating and pretty much giving an eff you to anyone who tries to stop him.

Oh how I have longed for this day.

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12-23-2010, 06:12 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeeMeck View Post
I think what we are witnessing right now is a turning point in his career from star-to-superstar. He is absolutely dominating and pretty much giving an eff you to anyone who tries to stop him.
I love the strong-arm he gives to people in the corners that are trying to defend him from the outside. Fav move.

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12-23-2010, 06:14 PM
  #13
Sybil227
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DIEHARD the King fan View Post
I assumed you watched both the St.Louis and Chicago games. He is not ALWAYS busting his ass defensively. Most of the time, absolutely. But if you go back and watch the GWG in St.Louis, Kopi is gliding back through center ice, a couple strides away from the third man into the zone, Kopi was the third King back and because of a lack of effort the man who is Kopi's responsibility ended up with the puck on his stick in prime shooting area and got off a clean top shelf shot. Game, set, match. Ther is no doubt that had Kopi not been gliding for several seconds before, he would have been right next to his defensive assignment. 98 of 100 times that wont hurt you, and it wont be noticed. But it was obvious on the goal that was scored.

Now I'm not going to say that he's not underrated, and he has truly developed into a two-way center which he was not when he first came into the league, but to say he doesnt lose his man is just not honest.

Far more likely he's underrated because he plays in Los Angeles, and there isnt nearly the same media coverage here as there is in Canada or on the East Coast.
Yeah, he's not always perfect - but show me someone in the NHL who is. He's a damn sight better than he used to be. Which was my point. People may not think highly of him because he used to be godawful at covering his man. That's no longer true.

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12-23-2010, 06:15 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
He still has a bit of ways to go to be considered at an elite class. There have been tons of players who were terrific regular season producers (Dale Hawerchuk and Peter Stastny come to mind), but as highly regarded as they are, they never achieved success in the playoffs, and that is what seems to separate winners from really good players.
... All that separates Hawerchuk and Stastny from those who did win Cups is the quality of the teams with which they played. It's considerably easier to have the label of "winner" when playing with a dominant team, isn't it?

Hawerchuk's team, the Winnipeg Jets, were never going to supplant the Oilers as the leaders of the division. The Oilers had better forward depth, better defensive depth, and better goaltending. The Jets finished 5th and then 6th in their division before Hawerchuk, and after he left, they finished 4th, 4th, 6th, 6th, 5th, and Phoenix. With Hawerchuk, the Jets finished 3rd four times and 2nd twice. It's pretty obvious that the Jets needed Hawerchuk just so they wouldn't have to squeak in the playoffs or not make them at all, and yet Hawerchuk's not a "winner" because his team didn't win the Cup?

Stastny's team, the Quebec Nordiques, were a similar case. With Stastny, the Nordiques only had three finishes above 4th place in their division. In 1984, Quebec had their best season of the 80s - they won 42 games - yet that was only good for 3rd in their division, behind Boston and Buffalo. This doesn't even mention the Canadiens, who put up 100 point seasons four times in the 80s. The Nordiques played seven seasons without Stastny, and in five of those seven seasons they missed the playoffs. So, again, is Stastny not a "winner" because his team needed him just to qualify for the playoffs?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
While Kopitar may be more talented than a Toews, he still has to show that he can help lead a team in the playoffs, something Toews has done.
... Toews had a team around him last season that would have put up 101 points even without the shootout and the "loser point". In 08-09, Toews' team would have put up 95 points. Neither Hawerchuk's Jets nor Stastny's Nordiques ever had a 100 point team, and only once did either team put up a 95 point season - and that was the 1985 Jets, who lost in the playoffs to the Oilers. Kopitar's Kings would have had a 90 point season without the shootout and the loser point. It's obvious that we're not talking about similarly talented overall teams, isn't it?

The Hawks of last season had a terrific second line center (Sharp), a terrific right wing (Kane), a Norris trophy winning defenseman (Keith), an established star forward (Hossa), and a defenseman/forward (Byfuglien) who tore it up in the playoffs and continues to dominate now. Pretty decent supporting cast, isn't it?

Can you even name a defenseman that played for the 80s Jets? Dave Ellett? Dave Babych? How about the 80s Nordiques? Randy Moller? Jeff Brown? None of these guys would have won a Norris trophy, right? Is that Hawerchuk's fault? Stastny's fault? Do you think Toews wins a Cup with the same supporting cast that Hawerchuk or Stastny (or Kopitar) had? Of course not.

Whether or not Kopitar is over- or underrated is a subjective question; all depends on who you ask. What's without question is that he's the best forward on his team, he's every bit the player Jonathan Toews is and likely better, and that his team likely would have not made the playoffs last season if not for him.

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Old
12-23-2010, 06:17 PM
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His defense has become top notch this season. People will slowly begin to realize how good he is, especially defensively.

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12-23-2010, 06:42 PM
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Datsyuk v2......In about 2-3 years or so..

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12-23-2010, 06:51 PM
  #17
Mr Irreverent
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Originally Posted by Puck U View Post
He's at the same level as Olli Jokinen right ?

furthermore ... why would you take anything DickArmy says as serious anyways ?

edit: OK, OP, maybe it would help if you posted the threads you're talking about, I found the Kesler thread in the Main Lounge, and saw Dick Army defending Kopitar there ? though I didn't read through the whole thread, so is there some other thread where Dick Army is saying Kopitar is overratted ? or are you trying to say it ? Is someone somewhere saying Kopitar isn't a first line center, maybe a top 20 or even top 15 in the game today ? Not sure I'd agree he'll ever get a Selke nomination, but that's ok, he is defensively responsible MOST of the time, and that's all a coach can ask for from a guy who is also suppose to be your teams leading scorer.
Give it a rest already buddy. You missed the entire point of that thread so for you to keep bringing it up makes you look quite asinine.

If you have a personal problem with me I'd be happy to discuss this in pm or at a Kings game.

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12-23-2010, 06:53 PM
  #18
Mr Irreverent
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RightKinger View Post
His defense has become top notch this season. People will slowly begin to realize how good he is, especially defensively.
No one is going to realize **** about Kopitar until they win a few playoff series.

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12-23-2010, 06:57 PM
  #19
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Kopi is amazing at the little things that nobody notices, which I love; but they also aren't the things that will make the highlight reel and make everyone love him. The way he will check someone, take the puck, keep the puck away against multiple opponents, drive the puck and draw a penalty is amazing. I ****ing love it when he does that, and he apparently loves doing it since I notice it all the time

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12-23-2010, 07:01 PM
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People will notice when he wins the Conn Smyth this season

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12-23-2010, 10:14 PM
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Welp, there you have it. Jim just highlighted a backcheck by Kopi that helped stop 4 Oil on the rush


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Old
12-24-2010, 08:32 PM
  #22
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His defense is constantly improving, to the point where he is good now. But, as pointed out, sometimes he doesn't skate hard on the backcheck. Most of the time he gets away with it. But, he shouldn't be doing it. Faceoffs is another area he still has to continue to improve. Underrated? No.

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12-24-2010, 09:21 PM
  #23
Herby
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Kopitar is severely underrated....and the offense would come more if he had the talent around him like all the other star players. He does it all, all three zones. He takes hits to make plays, he is the constant center of attention from the other team and still produces points.

Nice draft pick DT!

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12-24-2010, 11:25 PM
  #24
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It's depressing to think what our franchise would look like had Dave Taylor not made the easiest decision in the history of Los Angeles hockey management.

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Old
12-26-2010, 09:09 AM
  #25
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Quote:
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Kopitar is severely underrated....and the offense would come more if he had the talent around him like all the other star players. He does it all, all three zones. He takes hits to make plays, he is the constant center of attention from the other team and still produces points.

Nice draft pick DT!
Thanks. Say hi to Kopi's mom for us.

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