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Leino - Is this Guy Going to get Re-signed?

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Old
12-25-2010, 08:12 PM
  #1
debonair399
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Leino - Is this Guy Going to get Re-signed?

What's up with Leino? Are they going to resign him or is he going to be a cap casualty?

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12-25-2010, 09:07 PM
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I think they want to have him back and he wants to stay, but it's going to have to wait until after the season.

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12-25-2010, 09:51 PM
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
I think they want to have him back and he wants to stay, but it's going to have to wait until after the season.
Yeah... I believe they hit a snag in their talks and with all the locked in players they have gotten to a point where they have to be cautious -- as if there was never a point for that -- My personal feeling is that Leino wants to stay here and will be willing to give a home-team discount, but on the other hand wants a longer term contract and feels he has earned a decent contract and could get that on the open market... and I'm sure Homer sees it that way also.

IMO Homer is between a rock and a hard place with this... He has locked in a real sweet core of players as it is, but the players have to pan out or else he could face a deeper Cap crunch than he now faces... If he gambles on Leino with the limited yet promising track record of one great postseason and a real nice quarter of a season, and makes a mistake, he has a big problem.

Without the large amount of tied up contracts Homer took aleap with Lupul... and Lupul never was the same after his brilliant stretch that was halted with Hatcher's concussing him. Homer was taken to task by the fans and Lupul looked to be a bad contract that weighed the Cap space down until Homer was able to move him in the Pronger deal... IMO, Homer may be leery to give a large contract again based on a limited track record.

I fear that Leino may want too long and too high a contract than the Flyers can give him at this time... and there are GMs that could and would give it to him if he hits the Open Market if it gets to the off-season and Leino plays well.

I think it is an odd and unfortunate circumstance that Ville is a UFA with so little NHL time to prove he has staying power... He may be a gamble to a team such as the Flyers who have little room to gamble with. Best bet would be a short-term deal at decent Cap space with hope of a larger and longer contract next time... Does Ville want to be a Flyer that much?

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12-25-2010, 11:14 PM
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Scrap Shelley, Walker, and a goalie and it can happen.

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12-25-2010, 11:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sawdalite View Post
Yeah... I believe they hit a snag in their talks and with all the locked in players they have gotten to a point where they have to be cautious -- as if there was never a point for that -- My personal feeling is that Leino wants to stay here and will be willing to give a home-team discount, but on the other hand wants a longer term contract and feels he has earned a decent contract and could get that on the open market... and I'm sure Homer sees it that way also.
The snag is that they literally cannot sign anyone else.

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12-26-2010, 12:03 AM
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The snag is that they literally cannot sign anyone else.
Basically what I was saying... that is if we are talking about the kind of money that will preclude his going on the open market.

Curious thing is that Homer eluded to the fact that he could sign both Carter and Leino after he inked Giroux... yet he signed Carter for a very good Cap hit, considering we all had chalked up a higher per year Cap hit and assumed he would demand much more with the leverage he had.

What may have been the case is Homer thinking he could sign him for a short-term deal that would allow him to prove he is wort the big bucks... and quickly found out that he wanted a long(ish)-term commitment for more money than a second year player would normally ask for.

I wonder if Ville were a RFA, and Arbitration eligible, if it wouldn't be easier to sign him for a bridge contract... But then again, he may not have fallen in the Flyers lap had he been... And also, would he then become an arbitration case that gets refused like Zherdev's and a few others since the Lockout? He sure has more to offer than a one-way scorer... but with so much of the core already locked in, do the Flyers have the resources to lock in another core player? When is enough enough?... And what if some of the core go belly up?... Or does Homer dare lock in so much of a team where he will live or die with their success?

That said, he has proven that NTC/NMC can be worked around... Some of the long-term core may be moved before their contracts expire if Homer gets imaginative in re-allotting his resources. The Cap management is still a learning process in the NHL... with no set answers cast since there is not enough history to determine anything, and the process really still in a state of flux.

I doubt this will fly very well here with those who feel Homer is lost with Cap management... but I really believe that no judgement can be made until all the facts are in. If he brings a Cup he will look like a genius; if he doesn't he won't come out smelling so sweet... His signed core has to pan out, and his role players must do their jobs well, at Feature Players salaries.

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12-26-2010, 12:09 AM
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I don't have the numbers off the top of my head, but I believe Jester is referring to the contract limit, not the cap hit. It's possible we literally can not sign Leino because of that.

I can be wrong though. Don't take anything I say seriously until Jester confirms what he was saying, or proves me to be a moron.

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12-26-2010, 12:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
I don't have the numbers off the top of my head, but I believe Jester is referring to the contract limit, not the cap hit. It's possible we literally can not sign Leino because of that.

I can be wrong though. Don't take anything I say seriously until Jester confirms what he was saying, or proves me to be a moron.
Okay, I'm not following you here... They are allowed so many contracts and one of which Leino now has. Resigning him would replace the old with the new, so that can't be what you are saying... Are you talking tagging? I haven't considered that... are they toast with that?

Wouldn't they say that rather than just string us on? Seems early to be bothered with that IMO... But that is an aspect of the CBA that I'm not that comfortable with (not that I really am with any part of the CBA haha).

EDIT: In case it is not already clear, what I believed that post to mean is that the Cap and the long term contracts will not allow Homer to fit him in and still leave room to man the rest of the roster... similar to the Devils problems now.

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12-26-2010, 12:47 AM
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That's the thing, I dont know off the top of my head how many contracts Philly has, and I'm sorta too busy with family things to check it right now (sorry). I also don't know if a current contract held with one player gets in the way of a new contract being made with him, or if they kinda cancel each other out.

I've always been pretty sketchy with my understanding of this part of the CBA, so anything I say here comes with a huge warning, and I've also had a lot of Famous Grouse, so who knows.

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12-26-2010, 02:23 AM
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I'm pretty sure that the contract is written up and ready, but it's not goin to be signed until we're allowed to. No worries here.

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12-26-2010, 05:44 AM
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I don't think Leino can afford to take a short contract with little money and promise of more to come. What if he gets severely injured? Too big of a risk. So he has to get a good contract that sets him up for life now. Either big money for 1-2 years or a bit less for more years. He's an ufa, so he has no incentive to risk his future with a short discount deal, when he can get the money from some other team.

I'm hoping for a 4 year deal with a reasonable cap hit.

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12-26-2010, 06:15 AM
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He's definately not gonna get a huge pay check from Philly.

Hell, if guys like Richards (5,75m), Carter (5,27m), Giroux (3,75m) and Pronger (4,92m) are playing way under their market value... not a chance Leino's gonna get overpaid.

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I'm hoping for a 4 year deal with a reasonable cap hit.
This. A four year contract would end when he's 31, not too high of an age for a hockey player.

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12-26-2010, 06:34 AM
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Originally Posted by 1865 View Post
I'm pretty sure that the contract is written up and ready, but it's not goin to be signed until we're allowed to. No worries here.
I was told basically the same thing. He wants to be here.

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12-26-2010, 07:38 AM
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I was told basically the same thing. He wants to be here.
Can you please detail just how the contract cannot be signed at this time?

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12-26-2010, 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Sawdalite View Post
Can you please detail just how the contract cannot be signed at this time?
They're really close to the next year's cap already, they can't exceed some set limit (is it 110% of the salary cap?). Flyers gotta get rid of some contract before they can resign Leino and they don't wanna do that yet because the season is still young.

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12-26-2010, 08:40 AM
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Probably after the deadline to see who we can get rid of cap-wise.

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12-26-2010, 08:48 AM
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Originally Posted by CptCannon View Post
They're really close to the next year's cap already, they can't exceed some set limit (is it 110% of the salary cap?). Flyers gotta get rid of some contract before they can resign Leino and they don't wanna do that yet because the season is still young.
Okay, thanks... I believe that comes under tagging... Since so much is tied up next season, there must be an epectation of a huge Cap increase... but could it be over 10 percent... and that would have to be just to break even, as I see it. To me that would mean getting rid of signed contract... and still filling out the roster... are they in that dire of a straight?

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12-26-2010, 08:49 AM
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Originally Posted by 1865 View Post
I'm pretty sure that the contract is written up and ready, but it's not goin to be signed until we're allowed to. No worries here.
Agreed. I think the the Flyers will wait until after the season when guys like O'Donnell, Carcillo, and Z come off the books then sign Leino. Homer and his agent probably have a contract outlined. Of course like many of Homer's deals that means Leino will get paid @ $500,000 more then market value for being a good soldier while the Flyers work out their cap space.

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12-26-2010, 08:51 AM
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Hate to say it but if this is the case maybe they should pass on Leino... there comes a point where enough is enough in a Cap World.

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12-26-2010, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by lancer247 View Post
Agreed. I think the the Flyers will wait until after the season when guys like O'Donnell, Carcillo, and Z come off the books then sign Leino. Homer and his agent probably have a contract outlined. Of course like many of Homer's deals that means Leino will get paid @ $500,000 more then market value for being a good soldier while the Flyers work out their cap space.
Are you saying players who are off the roster next season still effect the tagging? This seems more difficult than it need be.

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12-26-2010, 09:36 AM
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There's also the tagging issue where you can only have so many dollar committed to the next season, or whatever. The Blackhawks ran into this issue last year.

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12-26-2010, 09:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sawdalite View Post
Okay, thanks... I believe that comes under tagging... Since so much is tied up next season, there must be an epectation of a huge Cap increase... but could it be over 10 percent... and that would have to be just to break even, as I see it. To me that would mean getting rid of signed contract... and still filling out the roster... are they in that dire of a straight?
It is a tagging issue.

Depends what you consider "dire." They are going to have no cap flexibility this year, but will have some going into next year. Assuming Leino signs a modest contract, it should be doable given the expected bump from the new TV contract. They have 57.5M (18 players) committed to next season as of now, and there is talk of a 3M bump to the cap.

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12-26-2010, 09:43 AM
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Are you saying players who are off the roster next season still effect the tagging? This seems more difficult than it need be.
No, it's just guys they have under contract... however, they have a lot of money under contract next year already.

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12-26-2010, 09:52 AM
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There's also the tagging issue where you can only have so many dollar committed to the next season, or whatever. The Blackhawks ran into this issue last year.
Next season does not have Carcillo nor OD nor Z nor Boosh and there are two way contracts to play with and nonwaiver players such as Bob and JvR and nmaybe Nodl... but that is offset with Carter and Giroux having new deals... still, is all that net 10 percent over? I'll have to calculate that later.

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12-26-2010, 10:01 AM
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Next season does not have Carcillo nor OD nor Z nor Boosh and there are two way contracts to play with and nonwaiver players such as Bob and JvR and nmaybe Nodl... but that is offset with Carter and Giroux having new deals... still, is all that net 10 percent over? I'll have to calculate that later.
Nodl isn't under contract next year. And the % of this season that JVR/Bob play counts towards next year (100%).

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