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Old
12-20-2010, 01:44 PM
  #276
Patccmoi
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Originally Posted by habsjunkie2 View Post
It has nothing to do with anything. Each judge scores each round independently from each other. If boxer wins the round it doesn't matter if he's the champion or not. This is old Don Cherry non sense type thinking.

He lost 8 out of 12 rounds, it is not one bit understandable how it was scored a draw. Champions lose decisions all the freaking time, close ones at that, and to me this one wasn't that close.
If it is so clear that he lost 8 out of 12 rounds, why is there only 5 rounds on which all judges agree Hopkins won?

And note that the American judge, which gave the fight to Hopkins, gave 2 rounds to Pascal that both others gave to Hopkins (but gave some to Hopkins where both others gave to Pascal).

It means that a whole lot of rounds, for the judges, were close and a bit of a toss up. Maybe you judge it as a clear win of 8 out of 12 rounds, I saw it as a clear win of 6/12 rounds (the judges all agreed on just 5), and likely win of 1-2 more. With toss-up rounds often going the Champion's way, the result is not surprising.

I fully agree that all rounds are scored independantly. The champion vs challenger thing is simply how toss-up rounds often end up being judged, with the main idea that if you're not too sure and have some doubts on who won the round, even if you would slightly lean toward the challenger, you give it to the champion. If the round is clear than sure, give it to the challenger and as such they can win decisions no problem as long as the rounds are very clearly won (and it doesn't help if you get tossed on the ground twice early on and you have the crowd cheering for the other guy giving an impression that close rounds go better for him than they really are). Again, I'm not saying that's how it should be, that's just how it is. When a champion loses a close decision, usually it's because he normally should have lost by a pretty good margin but the score got closer because he is the champion.

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12-20-2010, 01:50 PM
  #277
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Pascal, not a great boxer. Got lucky against Dawson (I was there and very close to his face). If dawson didn't get that nasty cut he would have won since Pascal was clearly out of gaz.

It's his big problem...no stamina what-so-ever.

Hopkins, you're a legend man !!!

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12-20-2010, 02:09 PM
  #278
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Originally Posted by Patccmoi View Post
If it is so clear that he lost 8 out of 12 rounds, why is there only 5 rounds on which all judges agree Hopkins won?

And note that the American judge, which gave the fight to Hopkins, gave 2 rounds to Pascal that both others gave to Hopkins (but gave some to Hopkins where both others gave to Pascal).

It means that a whole lot of rounds, for the judges, were close and a bit of a toss up. Maybe you judge it as a clear win of 8 out of 12 rounds, I saw it as a clear win of 6/12 rounds (the judges all agreed on just 5), and likely win of 1-2 more. With toss-up rounds often going the Champion's way, the result is not surprising.

I fully agree that all rounds are scored independantly. The champion vs challenger thing is simply how toss-up rounds often end up being judged, with the main idea that if you're not too sure and have some doubts on who won the round, even if you would slightly lean toward the challenger, you give it to the champion. If the round is clear than sure, give it to the challenger and as such they can win decisions no problem as long as the rounds are very clearly won (and it doesn't help if you get tossed on the ground twice early on and you have the crowd cheering for the other guy giving an impression that close rounds go better for him than they really are). Again, I'm not saying that's how it should be, that's just how it is. When a champion loses a close decision, usually it's because he normally should have lost by a pretty good margin but the score got closer because he is the champion.
I'd love to hear Harold Lederman and Jim Lampley score the fight. The champion challenger thing doesn't really exist. If you think the judges held the fact that Hopkins wasn't champion against him, I don't know what to say. He's 10 times the champion Pascal will ever be, admittedly he wasn't the reigning champion in this fight, but it means very little.

I thought it blatantly obvious Hopkins won the fight and suspect Harold would score it the same way, but I conceded there does appear to be some discrepancy in the scoring of the rds between judges. I would bet money the judge with more experience was the US judge who scored it 114-112 Hopkins.

I'm not sure what fight the judges were watching to give rd 5 to Pascal, but 2 out of 3 did.

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12-20-2010, 04:06 PM
  #279
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Originally Posted by Markovskaya View Post
Pascal, not a great boxer. Got lucky against Dawson (I was there and very close to his face). If dawson didn't get that nasty cut he would have won since Pascal was clearly out of gaz.

It's his big problem...no stamina what-so-ever.

Hopkins, you're a legend man !!!
Didnt look tired at all against Dawson, on another hand, I agree that he didnt look very in shape against Hopkins, was always sitting to the last second before the rounds start, personally I thought he was sick having the flu or something like this but he said after the fight that he felt good and could have even fought Hopkins again in the next days, what I didnt like to hear at all, you should have give your all Pascal, poeple dont like boxers just doing enough to win the fight..

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12-20-2010, 04:12 PM
  #280
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frankly I don't care if it's a stolen fight. I remember a ton of fights in the USA that went to the local boxer or the US boxer, to me it's all payback for years of fight fixing and all fights in MTL should go to MTL fighters for the next 50 years just to finally get even with the 50 years of US cheating.

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12-20-2010, 04:17 PM
  #281
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Originally Posted by RC51 View Post
frankly I don't care if it's a stolen fight. I remember a ton of fights in the USA that went to the local boxer or the US boxer, to me it's all payback for years of fight fixing and all fights in MTL should go to MTL fighters for the next 50 years just to finally get even with the 50 years of US cheating.
lol thats what makes that sport so frustrating, the biaised judges.. you wanna lose a fight, go to Germany, unless you make your opponent K.O. you are basically asured to lose the fight on the scoreboard..

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12-20-2010, 04:40 PM
  #282
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Originally Posted by DDIHH View Post
It was against Marcus Beyer and the quebecer was Eric Lucas.
Thank you !

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12-20-2010, 04:44 PM
  #283
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Originally Posted by NewHabsEra View Post
Didnt look tired at all against Dawson, on another hand, I agree that he didnt look very in shape against Hopkins, was always sitting to the last second before the rounds start, personally I thought he was sick having the flu or something like this but he said after the fight that he felt good and could have even fought Hopkins again in the next days, what I didnt like to hear at all, you should have give your all Pascal, poeple dont like boxers just doing enough to win the fight..
He was tired against Dawson. Powerpunch stats would concur. He was just lucky that Dawson was in bad shape. The guy didn't train that hard. He wasn't facing a cardio machine, to say the least.

I don't see Hopkins getting a rematch this early. If Michel plays his cards properly, he'll let Pascal fight against a pretender first, then Dawson. I think you've seen the last of Hopkins against Pascal. Unfortunately for Hopkins, they will offer the man a rematch when he gets to 47. And it will be too late. Michel is not stupid enough to let his man get into another psychological warfare (a war that he lost) against the best brains out there.

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12-20-2010, 04:45 PM
  #284
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Originally Posted by NewHabsEra View Post
Ok so Hopkins had to dominate those rounds clearly to get a 9-9..

watching Pacman reccord.. Is Marquez the one Ngoudjo almost won against? Judging by Manny Pac's reccord, this guy gave alot of trouble to Manny.. Any chance they ever fight again? Do you think Pacman would win this fight more clearly? Also, who do you think would win if we finnally get the chance to see a Pacman Maywheather fight?
It was Malignaggi or whatever his name was...That's the guy who actually lost to Herman, but won because of a local decision. The same Paulie who fought just before Pascal. Strange coincidence, wasn't it?

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12-25-2010, 08:58 AM
  #285
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Originally Posted by pam19 View Post
Still did not see the fight. I will certainly come back and I may agree with you.
As for speculating, I am obviously speculating on the judges decision... Not on the fight so seeing the fight won't change my comments by one iota.
I hope you can understand me.
Interesting that the only judges who gave Hopkins winning by one point was a judge from US.

I was finding interesting the comments by the psychologist at l'antichambre.
As for knowing boxing, you are obviously have way more knowledge than me. Personally when I feel I am an expert, I understand that others are less skilled than me and I help them instead of attacking them.

I must admit that I have been a fan of Pascal since 2006 and believed he would become a champion since his fight against Froch.
Some fighter have never been the same after fighting him (Chuchu Mackey for example - I was working in the Bahamas at the time of the fight and said to my co-worker than Pascal could be a world champion one day).

Feels like Pascal will come back as a better fighter from that fight and I am certainly hoping for Hopkins getting another fight.
You still can not deny that Pascal knocked down Hopkins twice in one fight whereas I read that Hopkins fell on his butt only twice in his 56 other fights.
This should be recognized, as well as the fact that Dawson and Hopkins who are known for giving a poor show gave us a great fight against Pascal.

But you must be right, the old saying: "to win against a champion you must knock him down" must be wrong.
I did not see the fight but unless you say that you are better than the judges at scoring or you pretend they are dishonest I don't see how you can deny Pascal his draw.
I also do not see your point of attacking me on the fact that I did not see the fight... I wrote it in every post.
I remember a kind of similar feeling when I was defending Halak (mid-season last year) and Latendresse (before and after the trade)... Was it you again?

I will come back after seeing the fight but will you admit your unconditional man love for Hopkins?
I must admit that I must give all the credit in the world to see a boxer almost 46 years come back and dominate the second half after being knocked down twice.

I for one think that Pascal will want a rematch with Hopkins and that the second time he will win by a big margin and he will put Hopkins to a well deserved retirement.
Nobody can deny that Hopkins is a legend.
Pascal will only be recognized after his second fight against Dawson and Hopkins.

PS with two knockdown and winning most of the rounds, Pascal dominated the first half (according to the judges), Hopkins dominated the second half (at 45...wow!). Conclusion: Pascal stays champion.
I wasn't once attacking you, you were saying stuff that was blatantly false and I corrected you. Pascal is a bum he couldn't beat a 45 yr old about to be 46. Pascal didn't dominate anything, that's the point you're missing. The rds he scored the knockdowns on he was losing previous to landing them and rd 1 should of never been a knockdown. The exact same thing happened in rd 4 and was rightfully called a slip. Even given Pascal the benefit of this bogus knockdown he still should of lost on points.

I bet you the US judge was the most experienced judge out of the 3. Where he's from has little to do with it, he knows what he's doing whereas the canadian judge who was scoring his 8th Pascal fight doesn't have a clue.

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12-25-2010, 02:11 PM
  #286
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Originally Posted by habsjunkie2 View Post
I would bet money the judge with more experience was the US judge who scored it 114-112 Hopkins.
You can check easily on boxrec which judge has the most experience in professional boxing. Judge Steve Morrow, the American, has judged a little less than 100 professional fights. Judge Van de Wiele has 950+ dating back to 1980, while judge Paquette has close to 300.

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12-26-2010, 11:23 AM
  #287
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Originally Posted by Shred View Post
You can check easily on boxrec which judge has the most experience in professional boxing. Judge Steve Morrow, the American, has judged a little less than 100 professional fights. Judge Van de Wiele has 950+ dating back to 1980, while judge Paquette has close to 300.
I'm talking quality of fights. Title fights ect. judging a bunch of european nothing bouts doesn't impress me. I am just guessing and don't have the time to look this up and couldn't be bothered. Hopkins easily won the fight and didn't get the decision. Something went wrong. Hopkins landed Power shots of a rate nearly 2-1, 141-85. It was a **** kicking.

The way Pascal hung his head in shame at the end of the fight. The way his corner was panicked and unhappy. The way the crowd went from being loud and cheerful to completely silent, told the real story. Hopkins held his hands high in victory and Pascal did the walk of shame. It was a blatant screw up by the judges. The fighters know if they win or lose the fight and Pascal was a beaten man, no doubt about it.

To anyone who disagrees. Watch the damn fight.


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12-26-2010, 01:10 PM
  #288
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Hopkins was robbed.

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Old
12-26-2010, 01:32 PM
  #289
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Originally Posted by icerocket View Post
Hopkins was robbed.
Yep, he won 9 out of 12 rds and didn't get the W. It makes boxing look like a joke. The closest it could of been scored was 8-4. There is no case for Pascal to win 5 rds which is what he needed to win in order to get a draw. Rds 1,3 were the only decisive rds he won and tbh they were only decisive because of the kd's otherwise he was losing both of them too, but Pam would rather argue over something he has never seen and that is readily available on youtube for him to see for himself.

He can keep on holding onto the Pascal arguments as long as he doesn't watch the fight. Everyone in both corners knew who won the fight, including the fighters themselves, the commentators, the fans, the interviewer at the end of the fight and on and on. Tarver said Pascal, but he's just ******** that BHop kicked his ass too.

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