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Leino - Is this Guy Going to get Re-signed?

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Old
12-26-2010, 11:04 AM
  #26
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I hope they can get Leino locked up for 3 years at around $2.5 million per. I am hoping it IS just a tagging/contract/cap issue for now, not just a snag in negotiations.

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12-26-2010, 11:10 AM
  #27
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if he is looking to max out he wont be on the flyers. Cant keep every player. It will all boil down to what shooter deems more important imo. Leino or having depth on d.

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12-26-2010, 11:30 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Nodl isn't under contract next year. And the % of this season that JVR/Bob play counts towards next year (100%).
Nodl is a RFA... so if not waiver eligible wouldn't he have to be accounted for if not moved?

As for Bob & JvR; I thought that that was only the Bonus portion for this season that carries over... and if not CBA amended to extend, 100% of NEXT season's bonus is counted. If that is the case than part of those two's contracts are locked in, even if sent to the A. Am I incorrect?

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12-26-2010, 11:38 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Sawdalite View Post
Nodl is a RFA... so if not waiver eligible wouldn't he have to be accounted for if not moved?

As for Bob & JvR; I thought that that was only the Bonus portion for this season that carries over... and if not CBA amended to extend, 100% of NEXT season's bonus is counted. If that is the case than part of those two's contracts are locked in, even if sent to the A. Am I incorrect?
Nodl doesn't have a contract and therefore doesn't have a dollar amount to apply to the tagging rule. Same with Carcillo and Powe.

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12-26-2010, 11:38 AM
  #30
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if he is looking to max out he wont be on the flyers. Cant keep every player. It will all boil down to what shooter deems more important imo. Leino or having depth on d.
That may not really be a choice unless you mean moving a D-man after OD is gone and bringing in a cheaper AHL depth Player... That said, I understand they want to see if OD may want to not retire for a chance at the Cup next season.

I agree with you that if Leino wants Open Market money he has to find it elsewhere... But even if he doesn't Homer has to think about the number of locked in contracts -- even w/o clauses -- the Flyers, or any NHL team, can carry... Are they set for a few years already?... Or would they move a contract to be replaced with Ville? Maybe trade a Hartnell to make room on both roster and Cap? Not that I want that either... There comes a point where we/they have to put a stop to hording, IMO.

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12-26-2010, 11:41 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by CantSeeColors View Post
Nodl doesn't have a contract and therefore doesn't have a dollar amount to apply to the tagging rule. Same with Carcillo and Powe.
Carcillo and Powe are RFAs also... I see that now... so yes, Nodl fits in with them. I suppose an RFA can be allowed to become an UFA if the owning team deems fit to not qualify them... I apologize for my oversight.

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12-26-2010, 11:46 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Sawdalite View Post
Carcillo and Powe are RFAs also... I see that now... so yes, Nodl fits in with them. I suppose an RFA can be allowed to become an UFA if the owning team deems fit to not qualify them... I apologize for my oversight.
Well that is true, but I think the bigger issue is that they just don't have a dollar amount to assign to their cap hit next year and it doesn't make a ton of sense to make something up.

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12-26-2010, 11:56 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by CantSeeColors View Post
Well that is true, but I think the bigger issue is that they just don't have a dollar amount to assign to their cap hit next year and it doesn't make a ton of sense to make something up.
IIRC qualifying is at 110% so you really don't have to make one up... But can they not count them in tagging and then qualify them? Not arguing that not being the case, you understand... just thinking through this out loud here.

With the complicated CBA, nothing is beyond possibility I've found. Finding the rules and applying them is the only real way to answer I suppose... But I imagine you may be correct.

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12-26-2010, 12:54 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sawdalite View Post
IIRC qualifying is at 110% so you really don't have to make one up... But can they not count them in tagging and then qualify them? Not arguing that not being the case, you understand... just thinking through this out loud here.

With the complicated CBA, nothing is beyond possibility I've found. Finding the rules and applying them is the only real way to answer I suppose... But I imagine you may be correct.
A QO isn't a contract unless the player signs the deal.... you either have a contract or you don't. A RFA doesn't have a contract, because he's a restricted free agent.

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12-26-2010, 12:57 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Sawdalite View Post
Nodl is a RFA... so if not waiver eligible wouldn't he have to be accounted for if not moved?

As for Bob & JvR; I thought that that was only the Bonus portion for this season that carries over... and if not CBA amended to extend, 100% of NEXT season's bonus is counted. If that is the case than part of those two's contracts are locked in, even if sent to the A. Am I incorrect?
For the purposes of tagging, you "project" values onto the next year. In the case of one-way deals, you're stuck with it until you waive the guy. For two-way/waiver eligible players (i.e. guys that could be in the AHL no problem) you account for their term of service in the NHL the year ahead. Bob and JVR are going to spend the entirety of the year in the NHL, so for tagging purposes they're essentially one-way deals (this is how I understand it anyway). For guys that get called up for spot service (Wellwood, for example) you just account for the slew of games they were in the NHL.

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12-26-2010, 01:12 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
For the purposes of tagging, you "project" values onto the next year. In the case of one-way deals, you're stuck with it until you waive the guy. For two-way/waiver eligible players (i.e. guys that could be in the AHL no problem) you account for their term of service in the NHL the year ahead. Bob and JVR are going to spend the entirety of the year in the NHL, so for tagging purposes they're essentially one-way deals (this is how I understand it anyway). For guys that get called up for spot service (Wellwood, for example) you just account for the slew of games they were in the NHL.
This is only partially right. Available space is current room under this years cap + expiring contracts - any extensions already signed this season.

So people on LTIR right now that aren't counting against this season's cap aren't hurting us in the tagging calculation either (other than having people on LTIR almost ensures you will have 0 available cap space.)

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12-26-2010, 01:27 PM
  #37
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Scrap Shelley, Walker, and a goalie and everything good in the world will flourish and humanity will enter into a new golden age of peace, prosperity, and enlightenment.
Fixed.

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Old
12-26-2010, 03:00 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
A QO isn't a contract unless the player signs the deal.... you either have a contract or you don't. A RFA doesn't have a contract, because he's a restricted free agent.
I understand that, I was just saying that a QO was that so coming up with a figure could be done... I now see where not making an offer at that point means that they are FAs until a contract is signed.

That said, most cases RFAs are retained, and especially when they are on the NHL roster the season before reaching that status. But that gives the teams some wiggle room for tagging and decision making... Powe was not signed until late, and actually after Betts was looking like a no go to start the season and Lappy was out indefinitely. That is an example of the RFA situation.

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12-26-2010, 03:12 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
For the purposes of tagging, you "project" values onto the next year. In the case of one-way deals, you're stuck with it until you waive the guy. For two-way/waiver eligible players (i.e. guys that could be in the AHL no problem) you account for their term of service in the NHL the year ahead. Bob and JVR are going to spend the entirety of the year in the NHL, so for tagging purposes they're essentially one-way deals (this is how I understand it anyway). For guys that get called up for spot service (Wellwood, for example) you just account for the slew of games they were in the NHL.
I clearly understand that JvR and most likely Bob will be with the NHL club this season and next... but they have the option next season not to carry them if they wanted to use that space and Cap for other players... at least that is what I'm saying, correctly or not.

I was talking next season... and from all I understand that is when the bonus money for them will be charged unless there is left over Cap space this season when they would have the obvious option to us it and save next years Cap from being taxed... This is one of the times where the LTIR players screw teams because they eat up free Cap space, not allowing bonus dollars to be used rather than differed -- of course the LTIR players also prevent Trade Deadline acquisitions... the LTIR are not as good as they seem at first blush -- and of course we don't know if the deferred bonus is in effect for next season yet.

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12-26-2010, 03:46 PM
  #40
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i get the feeling leino is going to be a very highly paid 3rd liner for some other team next year and im okay with that. between him and zherdev its whoevers cheaper and neither gets more than 2.5

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12-26-2010, 04:09 PM
  #41
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The short answer is: Yes.

I'm curious as to what they're going to do with Nodl.

And would they really re-sign OD?

I know Pronger has clout but isn't it time to bring up some of the AHL guys?

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12-26-2010, 04:20 PM
  #42
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And would they really re-sign OD?
I don't think OD even wants to play another year. He just wanted one more shot.

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12-26-2010, 04:27 PM
  #43
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I don't think OD even wants to play another year. He just wanted one more shot.
"It's been a great fit," O'Donnell said. "My wife and I were just saying, there are a lot of things that we miss, like our friends, the weather and things like that. But for a pure hockey decision, I know that I'm getting towards the end of my career. Whether this is my last year or if I have one after that, or who knows, I wanted one shot at another Stanley Cup."


not shocking at all that he may want to come back as i believed this from day 1. I believe he does resign, unless they win the cup.

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12-26-2010, 04:30 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Sawdalite View Post
IIRC qualifying is at 110% so you really don't have to make one up... But can they not count them in tagging and then qualify them? Not arguing that not being the case, you understand... just thinking through this out loud here.

With the complicated CBA, nothing is beyond possibility I've found. Finding the rules and applying them is the only real way to answer I suppose... But I imagine you may be correct.
actually, their QO depends on how much they were making

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Players who earned less than $660,000 in the previous season must be offered 110 percent of last season's salary. Players making up to $1 million must be offered 105 percent. Players making over $1 million must be offered 100 percent.

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12-26-2010, 04:32 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by NWO View Post
"It's been a great fit," O'Donnell said. "My wife and I were just saying, there are a lot of things that we miss, like our friends, the weather and things like that. But for a pure hockey decision, I know that I'm getting towards the end of my career. Whether this is my last year or if I have one after that, or who knows, I wanted one shot at another Stanley Cup."


not shocking at all that he may want to come back as i believed this from day 1. I believe he does resign, unless they win the cup.
if he comes back, he'll probably have to take a pay cut

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12-26-2010, 06:04 PM
  #46
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actually, their QO depends on how much they were making
Interesting... I had forgotten that; thanks

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Originally Posted by RJ8812 View Post
if he comes back, he'll probably have to take a pay cut
OD is only making $1.3M this season... and $0.3 of that is bonus -- according to CapGeek -- If I were Homer I'd talk him into coming back... if he continues to have such a great success with +/- rating, I think it'd be hard for him to hang up his skates when he is playing so well and fitting in perfectly here... and then I'd waive Walker. If Walker makes it down I just pay him to play in the A and have him as insurance in the Postseason when there are no waivers... If Walker is claimed they free up Cap space. I just wouldn't try to sneak him back up and risk losing $850K prorated Cap space for nothing until the 2013-2014 season.


Last edited by Sawdalite: 12-26-2010 at 06:11 PM.
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12-26-2010, 06:48 PM
  #47
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They absolutely need to waive Walker as soon as he's healthy.

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12-26-2010, 07:53 PM
  #48
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They absolutely need to waive Walker as soon as he's healthy.
I'd be kind of shocked if anyone claimed him right now, so that won't really help with this situation.

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12-26-2010, 07:56 PM
  #49
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Waive Walker and trade Leighton. Re-sign Boosh at 975K. I think Shelley is here to stay sadly...

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12-26-2010, 07:56 PM
  #50
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I clearly understand that JvR and most likely Bob will be with the NHL club this season and next... but they have the option next season not to carry them if they wanted to use that space and Cap for other players... at least that is what I'm saying, correctly or not.
Yeah, you're missing the point. You take JVRs games this year count towards his tagging cost going into next year. So, Wellwood played 3 games with us this year... that counts towards a projection for next year. Just because you can send the guy down, doesn't mean his cost projection for next year can be calculated as zero... since clearly that isn't accurate.

Quote:
I was talking next season... and from all I understand that is when the bonus money for them will be charged unless there is left over Cap space this season when they would have the obvious option to us it and save next years Cap from being taxed... This is one of the times where the LTIR players screw teams because they eat up free Cap space, not allowing bonus dollars to be used rather than differed -- of course the LTIR players also prevent Trade Deadline acquisitions... the LTIR are not as good as they seem at first blush -- and of course we don't know if the deferred bonus is in effect for next season yet.
Yeah, well, Holmgren doesn't really appreciate the concept of maintaining cap space... so that's life.

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