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Old
12-24-2010, 11:51 AM
  #151
Duc620
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Considering the overall improvement in the team and more importantly to the type of team and team culture that has been built since the arrival of Lombardi, I don't see how we can complain about the older more expensive vets that have stayed with the Kings. They've done nothing but improve the play of the younger guys, showed them how to be professional NHLer's, and injected character and grit into Kingsland.

Why would we be thinking about dumping the guys that have done this when they are still productive and still want to play here?

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Old
12-24-2010, 12:04 PM
  #152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadInjury View Post
The team improved after Smyth's arrival, we don't have salary cap problems this year or next, and it isn't my money, so I see his acquisition as an unmitigated success.
We won't have cap issues, but if want to resign Zues, jw, dd, Jj and Simmonds, we won't be able to sign any high price talent. I like smyth, He brings intangibles. But at this point, I'd rather see some more speed and skill in the top 6.

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Old
12-24-2010, 12:19 PM
  #153
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Originally Posted by Kurrilino View Post
This is what i always point out...............

The difference between Frolov, Brown and Kopitar to Zetterberg or Datsyuk is
that they grew between guys like Hull and Shanahan while our guys grew between the Armstrongs, McCauleys or Thorntons............
Mix this fact with our coaching staff and you will know why Brown isn't creative.
This is a major damage just look what happend to Frolov.
Your points are so lame it isnt even funny. You always look for the exception and try and make it the rule. Frolov was already an experience vet when guys like Thornton and Armstrong was here. The year after Thornton left, he scored 32 goals. The team plays a defense first scheme now and that is what considered to Frolov's drop off.

Since you haven't figured it out yet, I will attempt to try one last time. No top tier player was going to come to the Kings when the team sucked. Lombardi knew this but had good young talent. He put quality NHL people around them to teach them how to be professionals and learn the defense first system. Do you really think the attitude our team has now was't learned from guys like Army and Thornton?

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Old
12-24-2010, 01:02 PM
  #154
Kurrilino
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SimmondsFan View Post
Your points are so lame it isnt even funny. You always look for the exception and try and make it the rule. Frolov was already an experience vet when guys like Thornton and Armstrong was here. The year after Thornton left, he scored 32 goals. The team plays a defense first scheme now and that is what considered to Frolov's drop off.

Since you haven't figured it out yet, I will attempt to try one last time. No top tier player was going to come to the Kings when the team sucked. Lombardi knew this but had good young talent. He put quality NHL people around them to teach them how to be professionals and learn the defense first system. Do you really think the attitude our team has now was't learned from guys like Army and Thornton?
A) And because of this he and his moron coach chased our top quality player out of town ??????
How the hell can you defend this ????

B) No, but the missing creativity and hockey sense is a product of this.
How many times do you guys bash Brown for not being creative or in former times
Frolov for not being creative ????


I really don't get you guys........... i have to listen we have a great coach and a perfect manager, we have the best prospect pool and super locker room vets who can play...................

But where are our Stanley cups or why are we not even close to that ???????
Why are the young good players leaving ?????
Why do we still get bend over in trades ?????

Serious...... i can't follow you guys being happy about progress when the starting position was zero. Everything would improve the team but this is not the point.
We need the best package we could offer this young talented team. The best facilitys, the best coaches, the best arena....... everything.
If we waste our time now with all of these Smyth's, Westgarth, Kings, Murryas,Lombardis the core will break apart before we realize it.

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Old
12-24-2010, 01:16 PM
  #155
Sydor25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurrilino View Post
But where are our Stanley cups or why are we not even close to that ???????
When have the Kings ever been considered to be a young, upcoming Stanley Cup Contender? Don't look now, but most feel the Kings are the next powerhouse.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurrilino View Post
Why are the young good players leaving ?????
Kopitar- 23
Brown- 26
Quick-24
Doughty-21
Johnson-23
Simmonds-22
Lewis-23
Martinez-23
Clifford-19
Bernier-22

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurrilino View Post
Why do we still get bend over in trades ?????
Name one.

O'Sullivan for Williams? Stoll & Greene for Visnovsky? Sturm for "cap space"? Richardson for a pick? Johnson & Lewis for Demitra? Smyth (18th in goals for LWers in the NHL) for a waiver pickup (Quincey) and a salary dump (Priessing)?

Cammy for a pick is about the only one that Dean got a bad return on investment, but he was going to test UFA the next summer and Dean admitted that he was surpised at the lack of trade partners. Calgary didn't get anything for him when he walked to Montreal.

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Old
12-24-2010, 01:23 PM
  #156
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He will name the Purcell trade.

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Old
12-24-2010, 03:24 PM
  #157
Sydor25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeeMeck View Post
He will name the Purcell trade.
The player he never heard of until Dean signed him as an undrafted FA?

Purcell wasn't going to make the team as a top 6. The Kings have players in the sytem that are better 2-way players and with a higher upside. He wasn't going to learn anything as a bottom 6 with the Kings and he wouldn't pass waivers to play in Manchester.

12 of his 18 assists are on the PP, I could get assists on that PP. The Kings have 6 players with more than his 6 goals and Richardson has 5 goals.

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Old
12-24-2010, 04:05 PM
  #158
KINGS17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurrilino View Post
A) And because of this he and his moron coach chased our top quality player out of town ??????
How the hell can you defend this ????

B) No, but the missing creativity and hockey sense is a product of this.
How many times do you guys bash Brown for not being creative or in former times
Frolov for not being creative ????


I really don't get you guys........... i have to listen we have a great coach and a perfect manager, we have the best prospect pool and super locker room vets who can play...................

But where are our Stanley cups or why are we not even close to that ???????
Why are the young good players leaving ?????
Why do we still get bend over in trades ?????

Serious...... i can't follow you guys being happy about progress when the starting position was zero. Everything would improve the team but this is not the point.
We need the best package we could offer this young talented team. The best facilitys, the best coaches, the best arena....... everything.
If we waste our time now with all of these Smyth's, Westgarth, Kings, Murryas,Lombardis the core will break apart before we realize it.
The Kings are poised at having a chance to win only the 2nd division title in the history of the franchise.

The core of young guys mentioned by Sydor25 aren't going anywhere, unless Lombardi says so.

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Old
12-24-2010, 05:38 PM
  #159
Kurrilino
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
The Kings are poised at having a chance to win only the 2nd division title in the history of the franchise.

The core of young guys mentioned by Sydor25 aren't going anywhere, unless Lombardi says so.
Well.......... even our players will be 28 sooner or later.

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Old
12-24-2010, 05:41 PM
  #160
Kurrilino
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
When have the Kings ever been considered to be a young, upcoming Stanley Cup Contender? Don't look now, but most feel the Kings are the next powerhouse.



I really hope so...... but i'm really concerned about the coaching idiots pulling another Frolov

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Old
12-24-2010, 06:51 PM
  #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurrilino View Post
I really hope so...... but i'm really concerned about the coaching idiots pulling another Frolov
You actually believe the coaching staff(s) have been the cause of Frolov's troubles?

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Old
12-25-2010, 12:02 AM
  #162
Kurrilino
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattias View Post
You actually believe the coaching staff(s) have been the cause of Frolov's troubles?
Yes i do............. Frolov was a damn fine hockey player before Morony arrived

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Old
12-25-2010, 12:25 AM
  #163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurrilino View Post
Yes i do............. Frolov was a damn fine hockey player before Morony arrived
Did you mean Moroni?


And do you happen to be Frolov's agent? Describe Frolov's play in New York. Let me guess, Moroni has put a gun to Frolov's head to make sure that farking ice-hole performs below expectations.

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Old
12-25-2010, 01:10 AM
  #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
The player he never heard of until Dean signed him as an undrafted FA?

Purcell wasn't going to make the team as a top 6. The Kings have players in the sytem that are better 2-way players and with a higher upside. He wasn't going to learn anything as a bottom 6 with the Kings and he wouldn't pass waivers to play in Manchester.

12 of his 18 assists are on the PP, I could get assists on that PP. The Kings have 6 players with more than his 6 goals and Richardson has 5 goals.
never heard of? over 20 teams tried to sign this guy... He just never fit under our structure... long term i believe we lost on him...have a read
http://findarticles.com/p/news-artic.../ai_n50638071/

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Old
12-25-2010, 10:33 AM
  #165
Sydor25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hollywood View Post
never heard of? over 20 teams tried to sign this guy... He just never fit under our structure... long term i believe we lost on him...have a read
http://findarticles.com/p/news-artic.../ai_n50638071/
I said that Kurrilino never heard of Purcell until he was signed by Dean. I didn't say he was unheard of in the world.

He's a PP specialist and Dean wants a complete team. He was never going to work in Murray's system or with the team. Not every player is going to fit with a team.

This isn't fantasy hockey, you have to build a complete team. Look at Kurri's roster, that is one of the softest lineups I have ever seen and I'm not a fan of the enforcer, but I agree that you need team toughness.


Quote:
MURRAY: “Coaches win because you have good players with good character. That leadership group in there [the Kings' locker room], that has been put in place by Dean Lombardi and the management staff and scouts. They have assembled a great group of guys. That locker room is as close, as tight, as any team that I’ve ever been around. They really care about each other, work hard for each other, and it comes down to the players looking at each other in the eye and saying, `I’m going to play hard for you tonight.’ To me, that’s what has been taking place here, over the couple years that I’ve been here. When you have that kind of an attitude going into games, you’re going to get your share of wins. Hopefully you get a lot more wins than you do losses, and you just continue to build on it by drafting well and putting young guys in the lineup, and you become a real good organization and a real top team in the league.”
If Purcell bought into the team system, he would still be here.

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Old
12-25-2010, 02:55 PM
  #166
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the kings are pretty much a complete team imo. The only key ingridient missing is another top 6 forward. that would have been kovalchuk.... but he opted to re-sign in nj.

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Old
12-25-2010, 02:59 PM
  #167
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We could also use a veteran stay at home D man as a #7 guy. A dude who can shuttle between here and Manchester or ride the pine. Harrold isn't that guy.

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Old
12-25-2010, 03:05 PM
  #168
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2011-2012

Semin / Kopitar / Brown
Smyth / Schenn / Williams
Clifford / Stoll / Simmonds
Richardson / Lewis / Westgarth

Doughty / Mitchell
Johnson / Scuderi
Martinez / Greene

Quick
Berneir

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Old
12-25-2010, 03:34 PM
  #169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OldGreatWestern View Post
2011-2012

Semin / Kopitar / Brown
Smyth / Schenn / Williams
Clifford / Stoll / Simmonds
Richardson / Lewis / Westgarth

Doughty / Mitchell
Johnson / Scuderi
Martinez / Greene

Quick
Berneir
That lineup sends chills through my spine. I wish.

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Old
12-26-2010, 01:47 PM
  #170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Utah View Post
We could also use a veteran stay at home D man as a #7 guy. A dude who can shuttle between here and Manchester or ride the pine. Harrold isn't that guy.

you can't exactly shuttle a veteran defenseman to and from the minors.

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Old
12-27-2010, 10:33 AM
  #171
Boba Fettuccine
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Originally Posted by wabwat View Post
you can't exactly shuttle a veteran defenseman to and from the minors.
Exactly

That is a trade deadline acquisition. Too bad O'D had to jet to Philly

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Old
12-27-2010, 12:25 PM
  #172
BallPointHammer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurrilino View Post
Same time like last year..............

I call out all of the arm chair GM's to post their thoughts about lineups
missing players or players who have to be traded.

Remember last year, this is not a personal bashing thread. You are the most powerfull man in the organisation and nobody can criticize you.
Keep it civil.

My turn..................

Fire Kompon and Murray. Get anyone in who is under 83 and is familar with the new
NHL system and rules. I would give the order that board playing and shooting the puck into a crowd is not accepted.

For the LW problem is no solution. We passed on 4 excelent gifts and when you do it you run out of options. So i would stay within the organisation right now.

Player on my list out
-Handzus (lost a step and age shows up)
-Westgarth and similar players (a team who wants to contend needs a 4th line)
-Smyth (makes his line predictable but would wait for replacement. After that i would send him to Manchester)
- Pony (he isn't what we need)


Player i target:

now:
-Chimera (i want speed and leadership for the 4th line)
-Penner (badly needed LW scorer)

next year:
- Parise (would give up a lot for his rights)
-Semin (well it's too late. We missed to trade for him at the beginning of the season. To convince the Caps brass to trade his rights would be costly now)
-Torres UFA signing for the 3rd line
-Moulson (deadline move depends on Penner signing)
-Jason Blake (4th line speed)

My lineup:

Penner - Kopitar - Williams
Smyth - Richardson - Brown
Parse - Stoll - Simmonds
Clifford - Lewis - Chimera

Doughty - Greene
Johnson - Scuderi
Mitchell - A-Mart

Quick - Bernier
Your line up isn't much different than the current one.

Keep Handzus instead of acquiring Chimera.
Keep Ponikarovsky to replace the injured Parse.
Acquired Sturm instead of Penner.
Drewiske replaces the injured Mitchell.

Current line up:
Sturm-Kopitar-Brown
Smyth-Stoll-Williams
Clifford-Handzus-Simmonds
Ponikarovsky-Lewis-Richardson

Johnson-Doughty
Scuderi-Greene
Martinez-Drewiske

Quick-Bernier

Extras - Harrold, Westgarth

I don't see what the big deal is with your criticisms of the line up, especially with how well the Kings are doing.

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Old
12-27-2010, 02:56 PM
  #173
Sydor25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herby View Post
I have admitted I was wrong on the POS trade and that Williams has been amazing this season for the Kings, I am obviously eating crow on that one.

I have also praised Dean for the JJ trade, to get a player of JJ's caliber was an epic steal by Lombardi.
Which is why I don't understand your constant complaining about Dean's "mistakes", not every GM is going to win or make the right decision every time. You can only hope that his "wins" are bigger than his "loses".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Herby View Post
The Cammalleri trade was an absolute disaster. If you want to argue it wasn't go right ahead. I'm sure we'll hear the usual excuses like Cammalleri wasn't going to sign here, which is funny because they were negotiating and wanted 5/25, this is 100% fact. Dean butchered the whole thing from the negotiations to the actual trade to the horrendous no upside player he picked with the 1st rounder.
How is this an absolute disaster? Dean, for whatever reasons, didn't want Cammy on the team for $5+ million/year. Dean also said that the trade market was not exactly beating down his door for the soon to be UFA. Calgary took a shot and it didn't result in any playoff success, Montreal offered the most money and he signed with them. Good for Cammy and good for Montreal, he played well in the playoffs for them. I don't think Dean feels any different about how he handled Cammy with LA.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Herby View Post
The Gaborik negotiations and subsequent Smyth trade were also a disaster, how can you argue otherwise seeing how Smyth is playing.
I agree about the Gaborik failure, but Dean again had his reasons. Gaborik was a gamble and he decided that he wasn't worth 5 years.

Smyth was brought in to teach the kids how to be a professional NHL player and chip in 20+ goals. He has done wonders for Kopitar and Brown. There is a reason he is called "Captain Canada", it's not because he scores highlight reel goals or even 30+ goals per season. He is a guy that can give you 20+ goals and park his ass in front of the goalie and go for the garbage goals. Is his cap hit too high? Perhaps, but his salary is right in line with what AEG has given Dean. Dean was willing to give Kovalchuk a $6.15 million cap hit for 13 years, the Smyth cap hit will not prevent Dean from adding to the roster if the player he wants is available.

Handzus was brought in for a similar role in the bottom 6 and was given $4 million, which is also too much for what he brings, but sometimes you overpay for leadership and UFAs.

Does Mitchell sign in LA if Handzus and Smyth aren't part of the team? Do the Kings make the playoffs last season if Smyth isn't on the team? Who knows...

I do know that Cammy helped the Kings get Doughty with the #2 overall pick.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Herby View Post
But if you want to continue arguing these things there is the armchair GM thread.
Think of it as a discussion.

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Old
12-27-2010, 03:34 PM
  #174
Kurrilino
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post




I agree about the Gaborik failure, but Dean again had his reasons. Gaborik was a gamble and he decided that he wasn't worth 5 years.



Think of it as a discussion.
Well he has always his reasons and this is what i complain about.
You don't get anything with just playing safe.
Our GM and and the coaching staff is a perfect match.

A bunch of people who never risk anything.

Sure we make the playoff or win one or another orund but that's it............

Serious........ you don't need any skills to make something happen when you are always playing safe but you will never reach the sky...........

I don't say everyone in that staff should go for maximum risk every chance they get
but i hate this playing safe crap.
The only situation Lombardi shines with steping in front is when everyone else is steping back.

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Old
12-27-2010, 03:57 PM
  #175
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post

Handzus was brought in for a similar role in the bottom 6 and was given $4 million, which is also too much for what he brings, but sometimes you overpay for leadership and UFAs.
Agree w/you for the most part, but there are two problems with this statement--

1) IIRC, Handzus was billed as a second-line centerman. His knee injury kept him from being effective in that role, and we'd all be pitching a fit about his $4M on the 3rd line if Simmonds doesn't develop into a great complementary player and credit Handzus.

2) You make the point that DL doesn't overpay--he didn't want to overpay Cammaleri, he didn't want to overpay Gaborik, he didn't want to overpay Kovalchuk. Fair enough. But to then suggest that he's willing to overpay for intangibles, since those intangibles are the core of a good team is a little nutty, since the point of the intangibles is to increase production in the form of wins.

Take Cammy's $5M, Gaborik's $5M, and Kovalchuk's $6M. Now subtract Handzus $4M, Smyth's $6M, and Sturm's $3.5M. Net total is $2.5M. Goal differential is probably around 40 or so. Who in their right mind gives up 40 GF of production for $2.5M in cap space, just to make the team happier? If the room isn't perfect, well, that's what coaches are for. Intangibles are great, but I'd rather take Gaborik, Cammaleri, and Kovalchuk's performance. I strongly believe most hockey people would as well.

Again, for the most part, I agree with what DL has done, but,

Kovalchuk Kopitar Williams
Gaborik Cammaleri Brown
Clifford Stoll Simmonds
Richardson Lewis Westgarth

Doughty Scuderi
Johnson Mitchell
Greene Drewiske

Quick
Bernier

looks like a better lineup to me, and it was absolutely possible.

I understand his line about not wanting to risk signing Johnson and Doughty, but there is NO guarantee that those negotiations will be any better than Cammaleri's was. Ultimately, DL has to find a way to put it on the line one of these days--he's in the process of construction SJ South, not just in terms of personnel and personality, but in consistent B+ production.

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