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Canucks Spank Flyers 6-2 - Jody Shelley is a Gutless Puke

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12-29-2010, 03:22 PM
  #751
settinguptheplay
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Originally Posted by Canucker View Post
They get contracts because there are dumb GM's who still identify with a "Don Cherry" mentality. I'm happy we have a fairly progressive thinking GM who sees that goons are a dying breed and that the ability to play and serve a role thats more than just being a knuckle dragger is what is important to success in today's NHL. Hopefully the rest of these mental relics will catch on soon.

Very well said.


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12-29-2010, 03:23 PM
  #752
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Originally Posted by deckercky View Post
Agreed. Last time we tried the team toughness approach in the playoffs, we had an inept powerplay in '07. We now have a deadly powerplay. The Canucks are a playoff team, and now have solid toughness combined with an incredible powerplay which will deter that message sending.

Flyers sent a message, but they sent an irrelevant message. If we face them in the playoff and they try BS like that (which is the only eventuality they could be sending a message for), they'll promptly lose in the finals again.

They were missing Pronger. I would say last nights game was not a true litmus test. The next 6 are with Dallas Detroit in those.

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12-29-2010, 03:25 PM
  #753
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Let me address one component of this debate. Was Tiger Williams a goon? Is Lucic? What about Iginla?

Goons do not have to be bad hockey players. They don't even have to do a lot of gooning. They just need to be guys that will answer liberties taken.

Team toughness is good rhetoric if there are any tough guys on your team. It wasn't laughable when the Canucks had Hordichuk and Rypien. It is now. Shelley demonstrated that the Canucks are not "team tough", they are not tough at all.

"Toughness" is about respect. Not the kind of respect one human extends to another out of courtesy. I am talking about the kind of respect that you better watch your mouth around me because I will close it by force.

The Canucks aren't exactly shutting teams up.

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12-29-2010, 03:29 PM
  #754
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Originally Posted by pitseleh View Post
That's a terrible argument. Why do very good GMs like Gillis and Holland see no use for one?

If you think that the NHL is a perfectly efficient market, you're sadly mistaken.
So 2 GMs don't use one so they're smart, and everyone that has one is just not efficient in the market?

I love the "Red Wings have no goon" argument. Kind of thought that's what Darren McCarty was doing all those years. They also complimented their line-up with gritty players. Their last Cup featured Aaron Downey, Chris Chelios, Dan Cleary, Kirk Maltby, Dallas Drake, and Chris Draper to go along with McCarty. Not to mention Holmstrom and Franzen are not fun to play against.

Just because there is no "goon" on the roster, though a case could be made for both Aaron Downey and Darren McCarty, the Wings teams were still pretty tough when it counted.

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12-29-2010, 03:29 PM
  #755
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Originally Posted by JuniorNelson View Post
Let me address one component of this debate. Was Tiger Williams a goon? Is Lucic? What about Iginla?

Goons do not have to be bad hockey players. They don't even have to do a lot of gooning. They just need to be guys that will answer liberties taken.

Team toughness is good rhetoric if there are any tough guys on your team. It wasn't laughable when the Canucks had Hordichuk and Rypien. It is now. Shelley demonstrated that the Canucks are not "team tough", they are not tough at all.

"Toughness" is about respect. Not the kind of respect one human extends to another out of courtesy. I am talking about the kind of respect that you better watch your mouth around me because I will close it by force.

The Canucks aren't exactly shutting teams up.
LOL...so now we have to beat people up AND blow them out on the scoreboard? Oi vey

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12-29-2010, 03:30 PM
  #756
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Wow...some people will find anything to complain about...

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Old
12-29-2010, 03:31 PM
  #757
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Originally Posted by Reign Nateo View Post
So 2 GMs don't use one so they're smart, and everyone that has one is just not efficient in the market?

I love the "Red Wings have no goon" argument. Kind of thought that's what Darren McCarty was doing all those years. They also complimented their line-up with gritty players. Their last Cup featured Aaron Downey, Chris Chelios, Dan Cleary, Kirk Maltby, Dallas Drake, and Chris Draper to go along with McCarty. Not to mention Holmstrom and Franzen are not fun to play against.

Just because there is no "goon" on the roster, though a case could be made for both Aaron Downey and Darren McCarty, the Wings teams were still pretty tough when it counted.
Darren McCarty could actually play hockey. He didn't hurt your team and allowed you to roll 4 lines without it coming back to haunt you.

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12-29-2010, 03:31 PM
  #758
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Haha, I know what you're trying to do here, and I don't entirely disagree but I don't think Blair Betts...he of the 6 PIMs in 36 games is striking fear into the hearts of opposition players.
At 6-3 220 he's bigger than any Canuck not named Alberts. They have a very physical group overall.

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12-29-2010, 03:32 PM
  #759
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Originally Posted by Reign Nateo View Post
This is by and large a myth.

Why do players like Shelley and Boogaard get the contracts they do? Why do a good portion of NHL teams employ one? NHL GMs consider them neccissary, but I guess dudes on message boards are the only ones "smart enough" to know that goons have no place today.
Good one. This is Sather and Holmgren you are talking about. You know? The same guys that get bashed every July 1st. The same guy that traded Gagne away for Walker and a draft pick. The same guy that signed Wade Redden to a ridiculous deal, same guy that overpaid big time for Drury and Gomez. The same guy that gave the much maligned Gaborik a 6-year deal with a 7 million cap hit. The same guy who thinks Leighton is not only an NHL calibre goalie, but a goalie who is supposedly good enough to win the Cup.

Bottom line is Sather is a dinosaur from the 80s, and Holmgren is not one of the smarter GMs out there (besides, when haven't the Flyers had 1 goon on their team? The late-60s would be your answer).

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Old
12-29-2010, 03:33 PM
  #760
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Thread has changed into a discussion on fighting/toughness and looking towards the Dallas game. A Pre-Game Talk or the Toughness Thread are the places for those discussions.

Closed.

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