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Is there any way we win the Stanley Cup during Gomez , Gionta & Cammalleri's era?

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Old
12-29-2010, 09:18 PM
  #101
Prairie Habs
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Originally Posted by Bourne View Post
Really? Let us see...

Philadelphia
Vancouver
Pittsburgh
Detroit
San Jose
Chicago
Washington
Los Angeles
Dallas
Tampa Bay
Boston
New York
Colorado

would all rank ahead of Montreal in terms of a combination of present talent and overall depth going forward. There are other teams whose combined depth and roster talent could over take the Habs. Furthermore, Montreal does not sniff the top six on the aforementioned list. You could make an argument against the last few but they have top tier players we simply do not.

That said, I do believe Montreal could challenge for a cup run devoid of Roy-esque goaltending. If, and only if, we fill in some of the more obvious holes in our lineup. That specifically would be a need for a top six forward. Of the players the TC mentioned, Gomez is the largest liability by far.
The three bolded teams are all unarguably strong teams and great in the playoffs, but other than that I would like our chances against any of the other teams in a seven game series.

The fact you have teams like Van Wash and SJ means you forget that the cup isn't won in the regular season and those teams have proved as much or less than us in the playoffs.

For teams like Dallas NYR and TB it's great that you can read the standings, but until they can win a playoff series they are just next in line to be this years PHX.

Boston and Colorado are on very similar ground as us and I wouldn't conclusively say any is better than the other.

Chicago is hard to gage with the all the loses and the fact they are about three weeks ahead of everyone else so I won't comment on them.

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12-29-2010, 11:57 PM
  #102
sammy d
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To answer your question, maybe, who else we got the next 3-4 years. Unless we want to start trading assets and start from scratch ala Edmonton this is who we go with. Not the best core, not the worst, surround them with a few good players and we're not any worse than Carolina or Tampa which by the way won the cup.

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12-30-2010, 06:53 AM
  #103
onice
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Sure we can win. Price can get hot and win it for us.

That being said, I don't think adding Gomez and Gionta were good moves and we'd have been better off not tying ourselves to those contracts.
This! if anyone believes this team will win a cup with Gomez & Gionta as part of their core, they're smoking some strong crap.

Gionta is a mid-twenties goal scorer except for one year. He'll also be 32 in a couple of weeks and has a 5'7" body. I don't see his numbers getting any better.

Especially if he'll be playing with Gomez. who is 31 and his numbers have been slowly but irrevocably heading south. And if he continues to dog it like he has been doing it of late, he won't help his cause let alone his wingers.

Now all this could change if by some miracle P.G. could convince Calgary to take A.K. and give us Iginla and if he could sweet talk Dallas into thinking Desharnais & Maxwell are excellent compensation for Richards.But what are the chances of that happening? And those chances are better than us winning the cup.

But Gomez & Gionta have made us a respectable team. They're just not the players to lead us to the promise land. They would be excellent complementary players to Iginla & Richards.

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12-30-2010, 07:08 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Prairie Habs View Post
How many teams are actually capable of winning the cup in your world? Maybe one or two?

After an awesome run last year we are bringing in lots of youth, size and skill on cheap contracts (Subban, Eller, Patches). You give us a four year time frame and complain about players who are in their last year or two with the team. If Markov recovers and Wiz and Hammer resign we will have an elite D.
Markov - Wiz
Hammer - Subban
Spacek? - Gorges
Weber

How can you look at that and not get excited? We also have tons of forward depth and an all-star goalie, but I guess a slump in December means we should all go jump off the nearest bridge.
Like I said , with Markov healthy I do like our defense , especially with Wisnewski , but both have no contract next year.The problem with this team is the offense.

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12-30-2010, 07:54 AM
  #105
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So - they get in a 10 games slump (and if you are realistic youmust admit they were highly unlucky too - unlike December slumps from the Koivu/Kovalev era) and this means they will never win the cup?

Does any of you remember where the Pens were in the standings, in January of the year they won the Cup ? When Therrien was fired ?

If you do not believe, hope and cheer for your team to win the Cup, every year, you are not a "REAL" fan (in my definition of the term). Your just a mere sport show consumer.

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Old
12-30-2010, 08:09 AM
  #106
Kirk Muller
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Originally Posted by Newhabfan View Post
So - they get in a 10 games slump (and if you are realistic youmust admit they were highly unlucky too - unlike December slumps from the Koivu/Kovalev era) and this means they will never win the cup?

Does any of you remember where the Pens were in the standings, in January of the year they won the Cup ? When Therrien was fired ?

If you do not believe, hope and cheer for your team to win the Cup, every year, you are not a "REAL" fan (in my definition of the term). Your just a mere sport show consumer.
I think you are more of a fan if you continue to support, hope and cheer for a team you don't feel legimately can win the Cup.

To blindly believe is not what makes a fan.

Yes Montreal can win the Cup, stranger things have happened. The Penguins had Crosby, Malkin, and Gonchar to go along with Fleury who was quite good in those playoffs.

Theres a massive difference between a team struggling in December with that cast of players and a struggling Montreal team with their current cast of players.

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Old
12-30-2010, 09:30 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Kirk Muller View Post
I think you are more of a fan if you continue to support, hope and cheer for a team you don't feel legimately can win the Cup.

To blindly believe is not what makes a fan.

Yes Montreal can win the Cup, stranger things have happened. The Penguins had Crosby, Malkin, and Gonchar to go along with Fleury who was quite good in those playoffs.

Theres a massive difference between a team struggling in December with that cast of players and a struggling Montreal team with their current cast of players.
See - different definitions. To believe against odds is not blindly believe. We cannot compare (raw talent wise) with the names you gave - 2 first overall picks and one second overall pick. But I still believe that in a playoff series we are capable of beating them like we did before, and anyone else (including Philly).

In my definition, a fan is someone who keeps cheering and hoping, even if his team sucks. Not because he does not see they suck but because they are "his" team. You do not boo the midget team that your kids play in, no matter how bad they play.

And should we fail in the first round of the PO I will still cheer for them and be grateful for the good games they gave me this season. The same if they miss the playoffs.

This is not "blindness" - it's being a fan.

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Old
12-30-2010, 09:31 AM
  #108
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Hope I'm wrong, but I don't see us making the playoffs this year...

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Old
12-30-2010, 10:25 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
exactly...

If Price pulls a Roy (or a Halak in any given playoff year, then of course we could ride him to the cup finals.

barring that, this roster will need some serious additions to be a strong contender, and with over 18M$ locked in three fwds that are inconsistent producers (that, or simply not players capable of playing at a good value level given their contracts, take your pick).

our prospect pool has great depth, but marginal high end talent (outside of Subban, and if we're lucky, Eller, can anyone say with a straight face that we have any all-star caliber prospects?), so we can't bank on ELC or RFA players stepping up and playing the elite role our "big 3" UFA signings were supposed to play.

PG will have to pull a rabbit out of his hat, or two, to give us the talent boost we'll need to win without "all-world" goaltending... but I believe Price has that in him...

so yes, we can win in the next 4-5 years, but it ultimately will fall on Price's shoulders. Wouldn't be the first time a team wins thanks largely to a goalie, our last 3 finals appearances were just that.
And that's the real problem... I don't see us with the high end talent that most winning teams have. The Gomez/Gionta moves did nothing to address this and actually continued us on the path towards being offensively led by mediocre players. It's not a winning strategy and we really didn't help ourselves here.

My hope is that Price and Subban are good enough to get us there someday but I really wish we hadn't tied ourselves to those other guys. If Price doesn't become the superstar we all hope he can be (and he's showing that he can be this year) then we'll really have no chance. We're going to rely heavily on him to win.

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12-30-2010, 10:48 AM
  #110
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I really don't think we have the horses this year and (in my opinion only) some of the horses we do have aren't being used properly. I would let this team go as far as it can take us without making any major acquisitions. In fact, if another playoff team was willing to overpay in a big way, I would probably be a seller. Players on the sell list would include Gill, Hamrlik, Spacek, Moen, Lapierre, Pyatt and anyone making over $7 million

The core is not that bad. We have some players who are close but not quite there and we have some holes on defense. Another year of development for the young guys along with a couple of key signings could really see things turn around.

At this moment I would be closely monitoring Emelin and Markov. Along with Wisniewski they would represent three bodies that weren't with us for the start of this year. Guys like Subban, Eller and Pacioretty should improve with experience. On the farm we have White, Desharnais, Maxwell and others knocking on the door.

If we are going to win during the Gomez/Gionta era we need a plan, we need to be realistic and we need patience. The era of dynasties seems to be over. Let's build on what we have, let the team develop. Let the young guys learn from their mistakes now so they can be better when the whole package comes together. Until Gauthier took over the reins the player development/acquisition philosophy seemed to be a bunch of ad hoc decisions. I really hope he continues to make logical, well thought decisions. The worry in all of this, for me, is that Martin clogs up the process with some of his decisions.

I think it is the only way that we will seriously challenge in the next two or three years.

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Old
12-30-2010, 11:00 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by HCH View Post
I really don't think we have the horses this year and (in my opinion only) some of the horses we do have aren't being used properly. I would let this team go as far as it can take us without making any major acquisitions. In fact, if another playoff team was willing to overpay in a big way, I would probably be a seller. Players on the sell list would include Gill, Hamrlik, Spacek, Moen, Lapierre, Pyatt and anyone making over $7 million

The core is not that bad. We have some players who are close but not quite there and we have some holes on defense. Another year of development for the young guys along with a couple of key signings could really see things turn around.

At this moment I would be closely monitoring Emelin and Markov. Along with Wisniewski they would represent three bodies that weren't with us for the start of this year. Guys like Subban, Eller and Pacioretty should improve with experience. On the farm we have White, Desharnais, Maxwell and others knocking on the door.

If we are going to win during the Gomez/Gionta era we need a plan, we need to be realistic and we need patience. The era of dynasties seems to be over. Let's build on what we have, let the team develop. Let the young guys learn from their mistakes now so they can be better when the whole package comes together. Until Gauthier took over the reins the player development/acquisition philosophy seemed to be a bunch of ad hoc decisions. I really hope he continues to make logical, well thought decisions. The worry in all of this, for me, is that Martin clogs up the process with some of his decisions.

I think it is the only way that we will seriously challenge in the next two or three years.
Subban and Webber should continue to play...I don't care how many mistakes they make. They need to play. Also, it's time Lars plays with better wingers. He also needs to be on the PP.

I'm a strong believer in letting your young guys play and just accept there will be growing pains. Enough of trying to hide them.

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Old
12-30-2010, 11:58 AM
  #112
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Having all that cap space tied up in Gomez, and having Markov now injury prone... I have to admit that we are a long-shot to win the Cup. Not entirely unimaginable, but a genuine long-shot.

Now, if we could somehow magically get rid of Gomez's contract and put that cap space to better use then yes, we could be a serious contender for the Stanley Cup with Gionta and Cammy. Nothing wrong with those two guys at all. In fact, both are proven playoff performers at this point.

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12-30-2010, 04:09 PM
  #113
Melvin Udall
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
And that's the real problem... I don't see us with the high end talent that most winning teams have. The Gomez/Gionta moves did nothing to address this and actually continued us on the path towards being offensively led by mediocre players. It's not a winning strategy and we really didn't help ourselves here.

My hope is that Price and Subban are good enough to get us there someday but I really wish we hadn't tied ourselves to those other guys. If Price doesn't become the superstar we all hope he can be (and he's showing that he can be this year) then we'll really have no chance. We're going to rely heavily on him to win.

Lafleurs Guy

I agree 100% - the reason for those signings were two fold.

#1 Habs have drafted poorly (especially 1st round) and have been unable to produce enough decent talent through their own organization to fill roster needs.

#2 Because of #1 above and Gainey recognizing that an entire roster overhaul was needed (roster purge of Habs UFAs of 2009) Gainey was very desperate - the acquisition of the Gomez contract alone was an overt sign of how desperate Gainey really was.




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Old
12-30-2010, 04:23 PM
  #114
Habs 4 Life
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Hope I'm wrong, but I don't see us making the playoffs this year...
so we had a bad stretch and you're giving up on the season saying we will miss the playoffs? Comon we will be part of the top 8, might not win our division but we will be up there come April

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