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The Process is almost complete: Why we need to go for it now

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Old
12-30-2010, 02:57 PM
  #126
Melrose_Jr.
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Originally Posted by msv957 View Post
Are you mentioning that Niemi and Leighton are as good or better than Hank?
No, just noting that a properly assembled team can succeed with mediocre goaltending. I question how much of a goaltending advantage there is any more when you see Montreal unable to even commit to a #1 goaltender because of their Jeckyl and Hyde consistency, but still make it the ECF's.

If anything, today's goaltending advantage is having 2 capable guys and riding the one that's hot instead of relying on, and ultimately burning out, your go to guy. It will be interesting if a team like Tampa can parlay that into post-season success despite having the worst team goaltending numbers in the league.

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12-30-2010, 04:03 PM
  #127
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I feel the main goal for the Rangers this season is to give the young guys some playoff experience. Trading for a rental this year is likely completely wasted, as there are too many players with little to no playoff experience. What the team needs is this year and maybe next to get to the playoffs and maybe win a round (more likely next year, but could still happen this year). This way, when the guys like Zuccarello and Stephan form the core of the team, they have the experience to get it done in the post season.
Pretty much how I feel. Playoff experience is huge, and I seriously doubt we would get past the 2nd round this year, even with Richards simply added to this team without giving anyone up, and we know that's not possible.

Guys like Boyle will benefit greatly from 5 0r 6 playoff games if we can get that far this year. I think you can see that Call & Dubi have the hunger after missing last year.

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12-30-2010, 04:14 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by msv957 View Post
Hank is considered on of the best goalies in the NHL. This is a HUGE advantage this team has over most teams. There is plenty of talent on this roster even without Hank that this team can go far and seriously compete in the playoffs.

It seems a lot of fans need to have Crosby, Pronger, Toews, and a D. Keith all on this team before they will admit this is a team than can contend for a cup.

Getting Richards could only help even more. Sather would be crazy not to at least look into a trade.
I'm convinced you're sather. Literally the only person on the entire board that thinks this is a cup contending team.

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12-30-2010, 04:21 PM
  #129
NYR Sting
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Playoff experience doesn't cause players to suddenly become more skilled or talented, and that, not playoff experience, is what separates this team from the teams at the top. The complaint that we still won't be good enough even if we acquire Richards is funny. All it really displays is a lack of confidence in the rest of the team, not Richards.

I'd rather be better and have that chance, than be what the team is now, and have practically no chance. Not to mention the increase in entertainment value during the regular season. Still waiting for someone to provide a situation where the Rangers take the next step without getting Richards if Stepan doesn't become as good as the fans here are already willing to believe he'll be. If that doesn't happen, then all these years will have been a waste. As if we haven't seen enough seasons wasted already.

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12-30-2010, 05:24 PM
  #130
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Richards/Stars to begin contract talks - http://www.thefourthperiod.com/news/dal101230.html

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Old
12-30-2010, 05:28 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by AJRanger View Post
Richards/Stars to begin contract talks - http://www.thefourthperiod.com/news/dal101230.html
Thank our lucky stars (no pun - ok, heck, pun intended).

I'm sure this pipe dreaming will go on until the ink is dry on his contract.

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12-30-2010, 05:40 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by BobSantos View Post
Thank our lucky stars (no pun - ok, heck, pun intended).

I'm sure this pipe dreaming will go on until the ink is dry on his contract.
What pipe dreaming? This doesn't say that they're signing him, this doesn't say that their ownership issues are dealt with. This just says that they're going to try, which was inevitable.

You should be thanking the Stars in July when they can't sign him, unless you want to see another 4-5 years of 6-9 place finishes and first round playoff exits.

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12-30-2010, 05:46 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
What pipe dreaming? This doesn't say that they're signing him, this doesn't say that their ownership issues are dealt with. This just says that they're going to try, which was inevitable.

You should be thanking the Stars in July when they can't sign him, unless you want to see another 4-5 years of 6-9 place finishes and first round playoff exits.
Whatevs. Prove you can sign him with numbers not rhetoric.

Otherwise all you have is a pipe dream for your dream boat.

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12-30-2010, 05:50 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by BobSantos View Post
Whatevs. Prove you can sign him with numbers not rhetoric.

Otherwise all you have is a pipe dream for your dream boat.
I already have, multiple times, including to you, personally. You've never posted a response, other than to promote the ridiculous idea that Richards will still have a 7.8 mill cap hit.

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12-30-2010, 05:50 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. View Post
No, just noting that a properly assembled team can succeed with mediocre goaltending. I question how much of a goaltending advantage there is any more when you see Montreal unable to even commit to a #1 goaltender because of their Jeckyl and Hyde consistency, but still make it the ECF's.

If anything, today's goaltending advantage is having 2 capable guys and riding the one that's hot instead of relying on, and ultimately burning out, your go to guy. It will be interesting if a team like Tampa can parlay that into post-season success despite having the worst team goaltending numbers in the league.
Interesting point of view and recent history shows you might be right. Still I don't think Hank will be or should be burned out this spring, Biron has been good enough to give him the rests he needs.

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12-30-2010, 05:51 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
I already have, multiple times, including to you, personally. You've never posted a response, other than to promote the ridiculous idea that Richards will still have a 7.8 mill cap hit.
I did a whole capgeek thread a while back. I'm not doing it again. - AND what you wrote in the quote above is patently false. I wrote that he won't take a pay cut. AND I wrote that if you finagle his deal to make it a lower cap hit you will capf**k us for a decade.

If you can't prove your point, please agree to disagree and quit.

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12-30-2010, 05:52 PM
  #137
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Originally Posted by AJRanger View Post
Richards/Stars to begin contract talks - http://www.thefourthperiod.com/news/dal101230.html
Nothing for nothing but every rumor I ever heard out of that fourthperiod has turned out to be 100% false. Is there any other source claiming this?

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12-30-2010, 05:55 PM
  #138
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Originally Posted by Radek27 View Post
Nothing for nothing but every rumor I ever heard out of that fourthperiod has turned out to be 100% false. Is there any other source claiming this?
Not that I've noticed yet, no.

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Old
12-30-2010, 06:00 PM
  #139
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Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
Playoff experience doesn't cause players to suddenly become more skilled or talented, and that, not playoff experience, is what separates this team from the teams at the top. The complaint that we still won't be good enough even if we acquire Richards is funny. All it really displays is a lack of confidence in the rest of the team, not Richards.

I'd rather be better and have that chance, than be what the team is now, and have practically no chance. Not to mention the increase in entertainment value during the regular season. Still waiting for someone to provide a situation where the Rangers take the next step without getting Richards if Stepan doesn't become as good as the fans here are already willing to believe he'll be. If that doesn't happen, then all these years will have been a waste. As if we haven't seen enough seasons wasted already.
Remember Crosby's first playoff appearance? Sure, he had 5 points in 5 games, but it's Crosby we're talking about. Remember Crosby's (well, the entire Pen's roster for that matter) first finals appearance? Yeah, it wasn't pretty either. That's what playoff experience does for you. It's a slightly different game, and just knowing what those differences are is really valuable.

And no, playoff experience isn't what separates this team from the top. However, an increase in talent, say, by addition of Richards even for free, won't really push them over the top either without that experience. Going after Richards isn't a bad idea. Going after Richards in a trade, especially if keeping him isn't guaranteed, is a bad idea however.

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Old
12-30-2010, 06:07 PM
  #140
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Originally Posted by BobSantos View Post
I did a whole capgeek thread a while back. I'm not doing it again. - AND what you wrote in the quote above is patently false. I wrote that he won't take a pay cut. AND I wrote that if you finagle his deal to make it a lower cap hit you will capf**k us for a decade.
I already proposed this earlier in the thread, but you didn't respond. Friendly bet: I guarantee you that Richards' cap hit will be at least less than 7.5, if not less than 7, and that his contract will be 5-6 years in duration

Once again, neither you or anyone else, is willing to name a team that will not only pay him the insane sums you think he'll get, but a team that he'd actually want to go to (i.e. not Toronto).

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If you can't prove your point, please agree to disagree and quit.
I already have proven my point, repeatedly.

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Old
12-30-2010, 10:10 PM
  #141
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Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
I already proposed this earlier in the thread, but you didn't respond. Friendly bet: I guarantee you that Richards' cap hit will be at least less than 7.5, if not less than 7, and that his contract will be 5-6 years in duration

Once again, neither you or anyone else, is willing to name a team that will not only pay him the insane sums you think he'll get, but a team that he'd actually want to go to (i.e. not Toronto).



I already have proven my point, repeatedly.
Wouldn't Dallas give him that contract, if they're able to iron out whatever the **** is going on with their ownership and whatnot?

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Old
12-30-2010, 10:16 PM
  #142
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Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
I already proposed this earlier in the thread, but you didn't respond. Friendly bet: I guarantee you that Richards' cap hit will be at least less than 7.5, if not less than 7, and that his contract will be 5-6 years in duration

Once again, neither you or anyone else, is willing to name a team that will not only pay him the insane sums you think he'll get, but a team that he'd actually want to go to (i.e. not Toronto).
This is all your opinion. SHOW US some previous top UFAs that have taken large paycuts. I bet all your examples are examples of Capf**kery.

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I already have proven my point, repeatedly.
The only thing you've proven is that you think the best UFA of the coming crop, coming off a career season, will take a pay cut.

Congrats. That is proof positive that he will be a Ranger for the next six seasons. Wow. Why didn't I believe you before?

Just SHOW US how his 6.5-8 mil cap hit fits under the cap with the other responsibilities we have to take care of. SHOW US or stop your dancing around.

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12-30-2010, 10:33 PM
  #143
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Jesus we FINALLY get to be Decent and all of a sudden WE HAVE TO GO FOR IT NOW? Come on.. Its called a REBUILD for a reason. Now he have the pieces, let them grow into what they can become. Why do we have to put so much pressure on them right away? Thats how you STUNT growth. What we are doing NOW makes sooo much sense, just let it continue to form into the nucleus it can become

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12-30-2010, 10:47 PM
  #144
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Jesus we FINALLY get to be Decent and all of a sudden WE HAVE TO GO FOR IT NOW? Come on.. Its called a REBUILD for a reason. Now he have the pieces, let them grow into what they can become. Why do we have to put so much pressure on them right away? Thats how you STUNT growth. What we are doing NOW makes sooo much sense, just let it continue to form into the nucleus it can become
Seriously? You think this is a REBUILD? Are you joking? Yea, let's just sit back, stay idle, and let Gaborik and Lundqvist's contracts and careers expire while the Flyers and Penguins continue to get better and better. That's a smart move. Here's a tip: Actually READ the post / thread. If you already did that, then seek a basic reading comprehension course because your post does not satisfy the prerequisite for this discussion. Seriously?

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12-30-2010, 11:36 PM
  #145
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Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
Wouldn't Dallas give him that contract, if they're able to iron out whatever the **** is going on with their ownership and whatnot?
Sure, but that's a big if, isn't it? Listen, if the Stars can sign him, I'll be disappointed as a Ranger fan, but as a hockey fan, I'll be glad, because it sucks for small market teams to lose their players. But as far as I understand, that situation is still a question mark.

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This is all your opinion. SHOW US some previous top UFAs that have taken large paycuts. I bet all your examples are examples of Capf**kery.
A) Thank you for deflecting my question, which is a little bit more pertinent (since someone has to be willing to give a player money, no?). Interesting how I have to show you a UFA that has taken a paycut, yet you can't show me a team that's actually going to be paying such a salary.

B) Name one top UFA since the lockout that signed an enormous contract before the lockout the way Richards did. Name one top UFA since the lockout that was already making enormous money (more than all but 5-10 players in the league) before becoming a UFA. Outside of Crosby, Ovechkin, Malkin and a couple of young small-market franchise players like Staal and Nash, no one makes the kind of money Richards does, because Richards contract was signed before the lockout. Richards may not want to take a paycut, but no team can afford to pay a 31 year old 7.8 million per. That's kind of the point of the salary cap. Any team with that kind of cap space isn't going to be very good, which means Richards probably wouldn't go there, would he?

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Just SHOW US how his 6.5-8 mil cap hit fits under the cap with the other responsibilities we have to take care of. SHOW US or stop your dancing around.
I'm dancing around? I've already shown it, and pointed YOU toward those posts in the past. You should go through my post history and find it yourself.

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Old
12-31-2010, 12:44 AM
  #146
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It will be very interesting to see what Richards signs with Dallas for.

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12-31-2010, 01:24 AM
  #147
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It will be very interesting to see what Richards signs with Dallas for.
That is, IF he signs with Dallas.

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12-31-2010, 06:40 AM
  #148
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Remember Crosby's first playoff appearance? Sure, he had 5 points in 5 games, but it's Crosby we're talking about. Remember Crosby's (well, the entire Pen's roster for that matter) first finals appearance? Yeah, it wasn't pretty either. That's what playoff experience does for you. It's a slightly different game, and just knowing what those differences are is really valuable.

And no, playoff experience isn't what separates this team from the top. However, an increase in talent, say, by addition of Richards even for free, won't really push them over the top either without that experience. Going after Richards isn't a bad idea. Going after Richards in a trade, especially if keeping him isn't guaranteed, is a bad idea however.
I agree. Plus I feel we are finally going in the right direction as far as team chemistry, leadership, system buy-in etc, and that is a fragile thing esp for The New York Rangers. I don;t want to dismantle and mess with that.

And I'm gun-shy after the drury/gomez debacle.

Let's make some noise in the playoffs this year, re-group over the summer and THEN go for it.

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12-31-2010, 10:25 AM
  #149
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If we have to move assets, I want it to be to move up in the draft. Get the elite player we need and not have to pay him Richards money for several years. Mr. Intangibles salary needs to go away before we sign another. Richards is available a year too soon.

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12-31-2010, 10:54 AM
  #150
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Good arguments on both sides in here. I would love to have Richards, but I'm skeptical as to the term and cap implications. I understand it CAN be done, but it would make things extremely tight.

However, one HUGE point that can't be discounted is Richards' relationship with Torts. Here's a guy who knows how Torts wants to play, will buy in to Torts' system immediately, and can even help lead any players who don't quite get it yet. It'd be like Prospal, who also happened to center our #1 line when he came in, but WORLDS better.

So for all of those concerns about him buying in or being a hired gun, I feel that those can be put to rest. Similarly, that could also amount to extra motivation for Richards, in wanting to prove his old coach and close friend right in signing or trading for him.

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