a little OT but some of the posts so far are addressing future cap structure.
IMO, it wouldnt be a bad idea to let the current high price vets contracts run thier corse one way or another and take a page out of Louie Lams book and have an internat salary structure similar to the Devils of the 90's where Hank is the highest paid and the "core" guys are determined afterward. We have a young enough team that could concievably buy into it and would ensure we are cap compliant for the tenure of the "core". If we are as succesful as we hope to be then any future UFA's that "want in" will have to accept the terms of the "team structure" and basically check their ego at the door.
We have an American coach, a pleathora of American players and prospects, and "if we build it, they will come." Imagine guys like Parise, Ryan, Oshie and so on seeing what we are doing and letting their current contract ride out in antcipation of building a USA NHL team sprinkled with a few choice Hosers & Euros (Staal, MDZ, & Hank). I know, totally far fetched right?
Brian Boyle is really hard to compare to anyone else in the league not only because so few players breakout like he has but so few players posses the package that he brings to the table. He's had offensive skills which is why he was taken in the 1st round in a very good draft, he's a towering 6-7 and now he can skate like a thoroughbred. I'm sold on this kid.
I don't think you can compare him to Moulson though because his relationship with the organization is different. He knows that without the Rangers connecting him with Barb Underhill he'd be, at best, in Hartford, so its a symbiotic relationship and they both should know that. A 2 year deal for for 1.75m each year gives Boyle the chance to earn himself a real contract much like Callahan and Dubi are right now. He will and then He'll sign a 4-5 year deal worth several million....as a thunderous goal scoring winger....LGR!!!!!!!!
I'm sold on him solely because he worked his ass off to get better. His skating is much better. The guy wanted to be better and he worked on it over the summer. So its not like this is some fluke season for him. He worked hard and the results show that. He plays hard every game, every shift. He is playing like the power forward that everyone thought he would be.
Boyle kind of eases the Hugh Jessiman fiasco. It's kind of ironic how they both were first round draft picks in at that 2003 draft. Great pick up by Sather!
Trying to find a comparable for Brian Boyle is not easy. Boyle will be a group II who is arbitration eligible this July. Boyle is one year away from being a group III in July 2012. Boyle has become a key player for the Rangers. 38 games played. 14 goals. 22 points. +11. Top PKer. 82 game projection/pace is 30 goals and 47 points.
David Steckel got $1.1M per. 3 years. Boyle has more goals in 38 games than Steckel has in points over a full season.
Jay McClement got 3 years/$4.35M. $1.45M cap. McClement is good for points in the high 20's. Good role player.
Matt Moulson. 30 goals and 48 points last season. Moulson was a group II. He filed for arbitration. Signed a 1 year/$2.45M deal before the hearing. Moulson will be a group III this summer. Boyle is in the same exact situation. Boyle is on pace for Moulson's offensive numbers. Moulson had 1 very good year and cashed in. Both are former Kings prospects. Offensive players in the NCAA and AHL.
Steckel,McClement and Moulson deals are a combination of group III money and last year of group II money.
Moulson is the best comparable. Boyle's agent will think so. Barb Underhill deserves 20% of whatever Boyle gets. Do the Rangers look at signing Boyle to a 2-3 year deal for around $2M per? Boyle might trade security for less annual salary which is not what Moulson did.
Ryan Callahan will get paid. Regardless of his broken hand,the Rangers will pay him. Torts LOVES him.
Brandon Dubinsky is on pace for a 35 goal and 69 point season. Even with offensive slump until recently. He will get paid
Torts has identified both Callahan and Dubinsky as core players.
Artem Anisimov has been identified a core player by Torts.
Michael Sauer has had a solid year so far. Arb eligible.
Not even mentioning Matt Gilroy who is also arb eligible.
Great topic, great post!
Strange as it sounds I almost want him to slow the pace a little to make him affordable next season. I said the same thing for Dubi and Callahan earlier in the season.
For Boyle, two things that I really love about him other than the production.
1) As Tortorella said himself, he was on the outside looking in during camp. He knew this might be the case at the end of last season and took steps necessary to improve his game. He also knew he had to play more physical, and reminds himself of that on a dialy basis. Bottomline, Boyle knew where he was week. He sought help to address the issues and executed. The end result made Tortorella and company keep him. So while it is natural to want to be better, or do better, not everyone actually formulates a gameplan and executes it like Boyle did. You just can't teach that.
2) For his size he doesn't give up skill and or speed. So while having a big guy like him is usually to be a physical force Boyle as a third line is giving opposing teams all sorts of problems becuase he is not only bringing the physical game, but he is scoring at will against the oppositions bottom 6. He and his linemates balance out the Rangers offense.
To me...He is part of the core. To me, he absolutley needs to be brought back here.
Now, I think the analysis that you did who to compare him to is pretty accurate. Moulson is a good candidate, but I think Moulson eats up alot more minutes than he does. Now I could be wrong there, but I am not certain. But, I just don't think the Rangers Have Matt Moulson money to throw around next season. That will be the challenging part to Glens offseason.
I'm sold on him solely because he worked his ass off to get better. His skating is much better. The guy wanted to be better and he worked on it over the summer. So its not like this is some fluke season for him. He worked hard and the results show that. He plays hard every game, every shift. He is playing like the power forward that everyone thought he would be.
I would want to keep him around for that exact reason. He WANTS to improve. Some players are happy just being who they are.
Btw, why do people keep talking about a drury buyout?
It's not like it's free cap space, YOU HAVE TO REPLACE HIM!
So at best you're going to be saving 1 - 2 million of cap space assuming you get an equal replacement.
If anybody ever deserved a contract and pay increase it is him . He sticks up for teammates , plays tough along the boards and finds a way to score and he is only scratching the surface IMO . I think the Rangers would be smart to sign him for at least 5 years if possible . He might look hard at 8 million over 5 .If...he performs a little better every year with more ice time...that might be an awesome deal . Keep in mind that he comes from a large family which might make him look at things from a different perspective . If he scores 30 or more next season...he will look pretty appetizing on the open market and probably be a 3 million / year guy and not affordable by us !
He should get a 2 year deal at a fairly modest cap hit, because this one season is an aberration from his previous performances in past seasons... Shorter term deal gives the player a chance to prove himself and earn a bigger contract while the team doesn't need to worry about committing to much cap space to an unknown, which in this case is whether or not Boyle will be able to replicate this level of play beyond one season. Maybe similar to Dubinsky's situation when he become a RFA.
Guys come on Boyle is amusing and all, but is he seriously being penciled in as a 30g/year player all of a sudden commanding 2-3mil? You don't give a dude like this real money until he can at least put together 2 back to back 20g seasons.
I know it's unlikely, but I just have the feeling Boyle and our "core" guys (maybe sans Dubi) may take shorter, cheaper contracts until Drury is off the books and we can afford to give them the money they should get.
Guys come on Boyle is amusing and all, but is he seriously being penciled in as a 30g/year player all of a sudden commanding 2-3mil? You don't give a dude like this real money until he can at least put together 2 back to back 20g seasons.
Peter Prucha got 30+ one time
Exactly. I wouldn't give Boyle more than 2m. per year....if that. 1.75 for 3 years seems fair to me aka optimal. If he asks for 3mil a year, well, goodbye.
Guys come on Boyle is amusing and all, but is he seriously being penciled in as a 30g/year player all of a sudden commanding 2-3mil? You don't give a dude like this real money until he can at least put together 2 back to back 20g seasons.
Peter Prucha got 30+ one time
It's definitely premature to pencil him in at 30 goals, let alone on a consistent basis. However, I think RB's comparison of Boyle to Moulson is accurate. If we want to keep him, we're going to have to pay $2MM+ per.
I think the Moulson comparison is excellent but there are major differences even with that. Moulson has been getting top line minutes--playing with Tavares mostly.
Boyle has much better size and plays in more situations. Boyle has helped greatly in giving the Rangers a steady third line production. The Rangers right now have scoring throughout the lineup. I think many tend to underestimate how important that has been to the team's success this year. He's become a key member of the team and the smartest move would be to pay up. With his size and grit--add in the offensive numbers and he's almost a perfect bottom 6 center and could be that for us for a long time.
Rangers should hire this Barb Underhill chick to teach the rest of the team how to skate.
Sather has Underhill on the Rangers payroll
Quote:
Former Canadian Olympic figure skater Barbara Underhill, who worked with Brian Boyle on his skating technique this summer, is working with the Whale’s players on a regular basis.
3 years/$1.7M/$5.1M. That is what Brian Burke offered Dominic Moore when he had 41 points for the Leafs. Moore wanted $2.5M per. Burke traded him to Buffalo for a 2nd rounder. Needed up signing a 1 year deal with FLA for $1.1M. FLA traded him to MTL for a 2011 2nd rounder. Signed a 2 year deal worth $2.2M with TB this past summer.
Somewhere in that range($1.7(preferable)-$2M)for Boyle. He gets some security for less money. A good contract where if the Rangers wanted to move Boyle in the future,the contract won't be an issue. Arbitration is his leverage.
I don't want him in the line-up. Even if the Rangers are to demote him to Hartford, he will still count against the summer cap. May be the concussion is so bad that he call's it quits. I don't wish that on him, but that is probably the only way the Rangers will be able to get rid of his cap hit.
Other teams wanting to get to the cap floor are only looking at next season, not another two years after next at $1.65 million per year. Those teams looking to get to the floor are looking for somewhat large expiring contracts.
Teams would not take Rolston at half price ($2.5 million per year for two years). I really don't see a team taking Boogard for three more years at $1.65 million.
The injury situation is not helping the summer cap situation. The pro-rated one way portion of the Zuccarello and Weise contracts count against the summer cap. Both players have performance bonuses. Won't break the bank but every penny counts.
Someone pressure Redden into breaking his contract, quick
Redden will be probably be in Europe next season. Redden is banking on a compliance buyout period in the next CBA. Rangers will buy out the remaining $10M and it won't count against cap. Redden becomes a free agent hoping to play in the NHL again.
Dubinsky and Callahan will each get somewhere between $3 to $3.75 million per year each.
Anisimov will likely get around $1.75 million.
Sauer will get around $1 million.
I can see Boyle getting $1.75 million over three years.
Thats $12 million (If Dubi and Cally get the high end of my prediction) for those five players.
Rangers have $11.45 million coming off the books (Gilroy, Eminger, Prospal, Feds, Frolov, and White). Some of those guys either need to be replaced or brought back.
Really don't see where the money to sign a Brad Richards is coming from.
$43.6M committed next year (based on today's roster)
$12.0M estimated RFA signings $ 6.5M for the return of Redden $62.1M estimate summer payroll
That doesn't account for replacement of Frolov, Prospal, Fedotenko or Eminger.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Levitate
Someone pressure Redden into breaking his contract, quick
Where's the cap going to be next year? If it goes up enough, you could be close to covering Redden's salary without using the summer overage until you begin filling holes left by UFA's.
Where is Boogaard going to play? Who is he going to replace in the lineup? You don't even know what the deal is with his concussion problems, and right now, I'd bet anything that the Rangers want to get rid of him badly. There are ways other than trading, and even that isn't implausible. A number of teams need to get to the cap floor somehow.
Guys come on Boyle is amusing and all, but is he seriously being penciled in as a 30g/year player all of a sudden commanding 2-3mil? You don't give a dude like this real money until he can at least put together 2 back to back 20g seasons.
$43.6M committed next year (based on today's roster)
$12.0M estimated RFA signings $ 6.5M for the return of Redden $62.1M estimate summer payroll
That doesn't account for replacement of Frolov, Prospal, Fedotenko or Eminger.
Where's the cap going to be next year? If it goes up enough, you could be close to covering Redden's salary without using the summer overage until you begin filling holes left by UFA's.
I could see the cap going up a bit if the player exercise whatever that option is called, one more time. The Canadian dollar is very close to the value of the US dollar again. That helps the cap situation there. I'd say it goes up to around $60 to $61 million for next season, with the 10% summer bump, the team could go up to around $66 million. Still not a good situation to be in. Only having about $4 million in cap space, using the summer cap bump, with the RFA re-signings, current payroll, and Reddens salary.
That also doesn't include the pro-rated one way contracts for MZA, Weise, and other players that have come up (or will come up) over the coarse of the rest of the season.
Boogaard's situation is not looking good (concussion?) so give Boyle that money.
It's really bad to say but given all the RFA's they need to bring back, Anisi, Dubi, Cally, BB they need to save where they can so if Boogaard is out I feel bad for him but it's likely good on the cap
