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The one thing that bothers me is the Habs seem so easy to play against

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Old
07-25-2010, 08:24 PM
  #451
LeMAD
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Our team is average at best. Being easy to play against is the least of our problems.

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Old
07-26-2010, 01:38 AM
  #452
Kriss E
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Don't know how you can infer that, although I certainly don't see how such an extremely subjective analysis of a 20 man squad can be used as any kind of fundamental arguing point. Many people would point to Briere's slight stature/style of play and straight-faced tell you he's "not built for the playoffs", for example (87 pts in 86 PO games).
I said that because you mentioned that Lou can certainly not be blamed for the lack of PO success over the past seasons. That's why I brought up the fact that you must not believe in the ''Teams not built for POs'' excuse. Wouldn't you say that it's perfectly a representation of the performances put forth by the Devils these past 5seasons?

For the record, I don't believe in teams built for playoff crap.
You have certain players that step up during POs, but I think every team has some and every year there's new ones.

The bottom line still remains that Lou is choosing his guys, and they haven't performed in the POs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
It's not an "excuse", it's a factor. What would the worst match up for a primarily offensive team be? How about a team with a top goalie who gets hot and puts together a solid plan for shutting down the key players? Happens all the time. Case in point: Washington and Pittsburgh vs Montreal last year. It's not a magic formula, and it doesn't work every time (it would be like the Buckley's mixture of hockey strategy if it did).
Sure, it's a factor but it doesn't change the fact that they lost when favored to win.
Pittsburgh and Washington were highly favored to win and they're seen as chokers for the last year's POs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
All I can say though, is that without the benefit of hindsight, there is next to a 0% chance that you look at those NJ teams before the trade deadline in recent years and find major moves that should be made. Thusly, you can't fault the GM for NOT making those imaginary moves in anticipation of 1st round struggles against a team that you didn't even know you'd face until very near the end of the season.
No, I'm not blaming Lou for the lack of his moves. On the contrary, I'm not saying he did a bad job. I don't think he's done anything special, but this started because Jaybee called Lou an aggressive GM when he hasn't done much over the past years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Bottom line: no one has ever questioned Lou's ability to put together a "built for playoffs" team, nor has he failed to assemble a cast that earns a top playoff berth year after year after year. Perhaps he has recently had trouble finding a coach who is able to make the proper adjustments once the post season begins (who hasn't... how many coaches have WE gone through?), and perhaps he was let down by a few key players along the way as well. I'm not "absolving" him of blame, I'm spreading it out to all the areas that many of you can't see in this incredibly myopic discussion/comparison.
I'm not discrediting Lou of anything. Like I said, this started by Jaybee claiming Lou has done such a terrific job whereas BG and PG (a GM not having been in place for even a year yet) have done very little and are not aggressive.
If he brought in interesting arguments, his opinion would have been respected and I'm sure plenty would have agreed.
But the fact he can't realize we switched half of our team last summer, that we're tied up against the cap this year therefore restricting our moves for the summer and can't understand that next summer will be a much better time to do significant changes because we will have between 25-30M of space, makes people pay little respect to his opinions.

I'm not seeing you whine about the lack of aggressivity from a GM that's been here for half a year and that's tied against the cap.

Lou has been a great GM, for a long time, but he deserves his share of criticism for the lack of PO success his team has had over the past 5years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Wait, what? We DID lose to them 2 seasons ago. 4-0. After losing the season series to them 0-6. Are you referring, then, to 3 years ago? 'Cause yeah, the Habs won that series after dominating the season series. And if it wasn't for 5 goals on 24 shots in a horrible slightly momentum-shifting game 5, the series wouldn't have even seemed as close as the 6th game made it seem. Look no further than the absolute drumming we gave them in game 7 to make that point sink home.

You have a point (POs =/= regular season), but you've used perhaps one of the worst examples possible in an attempt to prove it.
I still see the 09-10 season as this year, so that's why I said 2years. But yeah, you knew what season I was talking about.

You can say plenty of things, but the fact remains they took us to 7games and we struggled to get by them. I don't care if it's the worst example possible, the point got across.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Overly simplistic, but I'll let it slide. Some teams have "bogey" opponents that they struggle against some years. I showed you that NJ just happened to have a lot of 1st round match ups against that exact type of team for them (for whatever reasons... doesn't matter, nor is it especially relevant to this thread). Montreal made it to the ECF, but might things have been different if they faced Ottawa (1-5 vs them regular season, and that "French goalie" factor that no one seems inclined to dismiss)? Not to use a "what if" as an concrete argument, but let's not lose perspective here just because it's convenient or doesn't suit our fancy. It's funny to see how people (not necessarily yourself) have seemingly forgotten their own arguments that were shared in threads discussing which teams they'd prefer to face in the 1st round, and why.
There's no doubt that certain teams match up better vs others. But if you can't beat a team that matches up well against you, shouldn't it be a lesson and make you adapt?..
The same criticism Jaybee and others will make of Gainey for not making the appropriate changes after a season (although they never mention the realistic reasons as to why sometimes there's no possibility for change, like this year), they won't apply to someone like Lou who's seen his team go through disappointment POs for 5 years now and still is unable to find answers (as far as last season at least, we'll see for next year).
Or you don't hear them criticize Holmgrem for not signing a goalie this season. No, instead they will praise him for adding more toughness with Shelley.
They have a clear double standard.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
And who established that roster? That's right: Lou. And without having to lean on FAs heavily to do so. Mostly drafted and developed in house. Thusly, he has earned enshrinement in the HoF under the builder category as one of the premier GMs of his era (at least).
Yes he's a great GM, I don't think anybody disputed that fact.
Many just questioned what he's done since the lock out, which is a valid question.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Their performance has plateaued perhaps, but when you start out on top (since we're focusing on what has "changed" since the lockout), and then you're expected to maintain that dominance on a more level, salary-capped playing field, in an increasingly competitive league... yeah, still hovering around the top ("lateral steps", as you put it) can hardly be taken as a knock against them.
Granted, but the lack of PO is still present (for wtv reason) and wouldn't you say that this is the most important thing?..
The Sharks have been part of the top for how long now??..Still, they have had very little PO success. Does that mean they're poorly managed??..Of course not. But Wilson deserves his fair share of criticism for not being able to bring in the key pieces. Same can be said of Lou for the past five years.

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Old
07-26-2010, 12:02 PM
  #453
Jafar
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As long as we're not easy to WIN against , unfortunatly despite the great playoff run last year I think we are.

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Old
12-31-2010, 02:28 AM
  #454
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReenMachine View Post
As long as we're not easy to WIN against , unfortunatly despite the great playoff run last year I think we are.
Pretty Much

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