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Hey Palmieri, pass the PUCK!!! USA v Germany

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Old
12-31-2010, 03:07 PM
  #101
Inferno
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Originally Posted by DubiDubiDoo View Post
Hey, personally I think Kreider will be a great NHL player, when he has the chance to play with a great playmaker on the NHL level. His size and speed will afford him opportunities others won't get, especially if theres a gifted passer setting him up. I'd love to see what the kid could do playing with a Brad Richards, or Stepan even, where all he will need to do is skate hard and get ready to shoot. He reminds me of Tomas Sandstrom, who was a favorite of mine growing up.
That said though, I agree with ODC, that since last years WJ tourney I haven't seen anything to be excited about from his game. Doesn't mean that I'm ready to write him off by any means though.

And yes, ODC was wrong about Lisin, but so was Glen Sather, we all make mistakes. Hell, I still want Prucha back because in my heart I hope he can score 30 for us again.
lets see, he won the beanpot, a national title, was the youngest player by far selected to team usas national team, absolutely tore apart the NCAA after coming back from the WJC last year....

yeah, nothing to be excited about ;-)


hes had a slow start this year...but he absolutely ripped apart the competition last year during and after the wjc. and despite his slow start hes still on pace to eclipse what he did last year.

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12-31-2010, 04:40 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
lets see, he won the beanpot, a national title, was the youngest player by far selected to team usas national team, absolutely tore apart the NCAA after coming back from the WJC last year....

yeah, nothing to be excited about ;-)


hes had a slow start this year...but he absolutely ripped apart the competition last year during and after the wjc. and despite his slow start hes still on pace to eclipse what he did last year.
your right about all that, but after the world juniors last year he was being talked about as if he were a man among boys with his speed and finish. People wanted him at Rangers camp this past Septemeber. I dont think he's ready for that. His play at BC this year has underwhelmed me, he's 5th in goals and 6th in points on his squad. He has no powerplay goals. I understand he's a Soph, but again, his hype lead me to believe he'd be leading the team in scoring.
Now to be honest, I've only seen 5 BC games this year, but I can honestly say his play hasn't excited me.
That doesn't mean I dont think he's an awesome prospect, but yeah, I look at the BC stat line and the games I've seen and say, meh, he's still a full season in the AHL away from earning a spot on the big club.

Not excited about this years play definately doesn't mean I don't think highly of the kid. And when I said this year, i should have been clear that I meant this college hockey season. The WJ's, Bean pot and NCAA were all 10-12 months ago.

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Old
12-31-2010, 04:46 PM
  #103
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He needs to be more of a difference maker at ES... Get more involved....

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Old
12-31-2010, 06:14 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Its pretty funny to me that you're asking for patience with a 19 year old prospect.

First off, because I think most people on this board - especially people who have been watching the Rangers for a long time and have seen their fare share of busts - are tempering expectations, realize hes still a teenager, and possess a typical wait and see approach in regards to how Kreider turns out. Dont let a couple of loons like ODC get you into a tizzy...as others have mentioned, you needn't look any further than the Enver Lisin fiasco to gauge his ability to judge talent.

But no, what makes it especially humorous to me is that you've been leading a slobbering love affair towards Krieder pretty much since the moment the Rangers drafted him. I come onto hfboards almost every day and see another post from Supersonicmonkey preaching about what an ultra-special hockey player and human being Chris Kreider is.

Dont you think its possible that you constantly and consistently pumping him up as the next big thing for the New York Rangers can lead to some people being disappointed in him when they actually watch him play?
What I "pump up" are the things he does, and the tools he posseses.

Hockey isn't a free for all on ice. There are systems, positioning, coaches putting players in specific roles. As we all know.

If Kreider stayed high (with the other two forwards in deep), its because he was told to do so, or because he read that. And its being responsible. You can't trap all three forwards deep and leave your defense out to dry. Even with a 4 goal lead.

This isn't a video game or basketball, one player can't dominate a game by himself. Hockey is the ultimate team sport. Everyone on the ice needs to be responsible or the other team will capitalize at the NHL level. At least he gets that. Why should he change his game just for a short tournament?

In this game, he scored. And he shot the puck 8 times. Which is a lot. He also set up his teammates a few times with nice passes. While making good defensive plays. What's the issue, here? That he doesn't deek a thousand times? He isn't all that flashy of a player and I don't think anyone ever said he was. He plays a straight forward game. He has quick hands, yes. He has an elite shot. And elite speed. He's developing into a solid hockey player. He CAN make slick plays, he's done it before, but he's not going to do it all the time.

Have I ever once said he's going to be a superstar? No.

Have I ever once said he's going to make you jump out of your seat like Ovechkin sliding on his back while deeking, crazy things like that? No.

Did I ever say he's going to be a 50 goal scorer? No.

I'm pretty sure what I've always said was he's going to be a very good hockey player. With 30+ goal 60+ point upside. POTENTIAL for 70-80 points in his prime.

And the bigger the game, the more he elevates his game.

I'm expecting him to be like Dubinsky, but faster and a better shot. With the potential to be more. Dubi himself is on pace for 30 goals, 60 points as a 24 year old.

I didn't expect Kreider's two way game to come along as quickly as it did. I thought it would take longer. But he's a bright kid, and he learns very quickly.

If I had a complaint about Kreider, its that he doesn't hold onto the puck long enough sometimes. I'd like to see him use his body to protect the puck and play a puck possession game more often, because he has the size and strength to do it. And the speed to break away from anyone if the opportunity presents itself.

That he can and probably will learn. NHL coaches are on another level, and actually care about developing young players. Unlike some NCAA coaches and certainly not coaches in a short interational tournamet who are under pressure to win.

I've said this about Kreider before, he will do what the team asks of him. If he's asked to play a defensive role, he will do it. He's coachable. That's not a bad character trait. He cares more about winning then his individual stats. A lot of younger players care more about looking good and having padded stats. Veterans care more about winning. That's a sign that he's more mature as a player and a team-first player.

The only other forward prospect I'm as high on is Werek. Who is another mature player. That plays a complete game.

Its not like I hype every prospect we have. I'm still not as high on Thomas or Horak as others are. I've heard about some work ethic issues with Horak when he was drafted. And I'm concerned about Thomas' size, but if he can get to around Callahan's size that would be a big break for us. And I have hope for all of them.

When Kreider gets to the NHL next season and he's surrounded by Callahan, Dubinsky, Drury, Prust, Boyle... He's going to learn from these guys. How to block shots more consistently, how to possess the puck more often, finishing checks more consistently. He's not going to get those things from the players he's surrounded by right now.

I'm expecting enormous growth as a player in his first year in the NHL, much like Stepan.

That's why the Rangers focus so heavily on character and work ethic.

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Old
01-01-2011, 09:54 AM
  #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Its pretty funny to me that you're asking for patience with a 19 year old prospect.

First off, because I think most people on this board - especially people who have been watching the Rangers for a long time and have seen their fare share of busts - are tempering expectations, realize hes still a teenager, and possess a typical wait and see approach in regards to how Kreider turns out. Dont let a couple of loons like ODC get you into a tizzy...as others have mentioned, you needn't look any further than the Enver Lisin fiasco to gauge his ability to judge talent.

But no, what makes it especially humorous to me is that you've been leading a slobbering love affair towards Krieder pretty much since the moment the Rangers drafted him. I come onto hfboards almost every day and see another post from Supersonicmonkey preaching about what an ultra-special hockey player and human being Chris Kreider is.

Dont you think its possible that you constantly and consistently pumping him up as the next big thing for the New York Rangers can lead to some people being disappointed in him when they actually watch him play?
geez, im not a loon. give it a rest already. i publically ate crow on lisin. camehere and posted a whole thread about how i was wrong about the kid being able to restart his career here. kid has aloty of tools but he just didnt think the game at the nhl level.

please remember, i had watched this kid since the year before his draft year, he was, during his draft year, discussed as a 1st round talent, dont believe me, go back and check. his skills were obvious, his skating was intoxicating. i always hoped we would draft him and when that trade was made, i was quite excited,

i wasnt the only guy who saw his skills and struck out assuming they would translate to an nhl career as a top 6 forward. kid couldnt get it done.

what that has to do with my opinion on what ive seen from kreider is what gets me. hes another guy with alot of tools but up until last nights game, he hadnt shown much to me other than alot of speed and some nivce bsack checking.

last night he played really well and showed alot mor ethan just his nice snipe. he looked like a kid who knew what he was doing out there last night.

i need to see more of that. hes got the tools for sure but im with alot of guys here saying he needs to leave bc and play some juniors to develop his finish.


and i got a headache this morning from too many jack daniels and gingerales last night....

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Old
01-01-2011, 01:03 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Korpicowski View Post
There is no need to defend Kreider. He is 19 years old and has had success at every level he has played at. He had great success at last years WJC, scoring the 2nd highest amount of goals in the entire tournament, including a goal in the gold medal game against Canada. His BC team won the National Championship. He has a great shot and blinding speed. He has had nothing but success. After a slow start last year, he really dominated down the stretch. Its a little much to discredit a 19 year old after watching a few games.

The point is, how can we trust ODC in evaluating a 19 year old when he couldnt evaluate Lisin who was clearly terrible for the Rangers?
There are still plenty of issues with kreider. The hope is that he'd start maxing out his potential already and be up to 25 30 goals by now. But most of the current Rangers were not exactly doing that at his age although Artie was scoring 80 in the AHL at roughly the same age. So there are definite issues his talent level says he CAN do that but he isn't.

Still like I've thought and said before he's a player that is going to take awhile. unfortunately we have a few of those recently with Sangs, Grachev, Sauer. One worked one did not (So far) and one is still being waited on while others like Dubs, Cally, Artie, Girardi, Staal DID develop (some at the NHL level). We've ALSO had Jessi, montoya, who didn't work and McI currently in our system too. Sucks we can't just have the instant gratification of a Crosby or something but we don't have a player who can be drafted and dominate simultaneously.

So maybe kreider has to take his lumps at the lower levels the next 2 years or so and then hit the NHL learning curve for another 1 or 2 years. Dubs, Cally, Artie, Staal, all those guys would be roughly 25-28? Hank and gabs would be gone and/or on their last legs somewhere during that time there should be a stanley cup APPEARANCE at the very least. I would be bitterly dissappointed if we only make it to the finals once or twice but that's the bare minimum I expect from this team now and future. Richard Neer (Near?) WFAN predicts a cup appearance THIS year haha that'd be nice.

Lastly it's noteworthy on some l;evel to point to ODC obliterating his eval of Lisin but there are other times he makes fine points. he's friggin human as we alla re you can't hold one single mistake over his head and present it as if it can explain away any and all future opinions he has. Well you can and just did but it isn't exactly rational or fair... We don't have to TRUST or live by his opinion we can simply disagree with it.

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