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Beauchemin drawing interest

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Old
12-31-2010, 08:16 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by yohan1212 View Post
And alot of Leaf fans live in la la land, don't they?? If Beach. had a decent contract he may be able to fetch a 2nd or 3rd rounder. At 3.8 million, he aint getting much more than a 4th or 5th rounder period. Wouldnt be surprised if they have tried trading him but have no takers at that salary. He was rumored to be AHL bound for that exact reason, but now you tell me he has good trade value?? OK....
Don't mind me.
I am just quoting this so I remember to come back and troll the poster latter.

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12-31-2010, 08:16 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by chrisx101 View Post
is this a joke Joe Corvo got a 2nd at the deadline as a pending UFA. Im sure Beauch with one year left at a reasonable cap hit is worth more
So 3.8 million is a good cap hit for a 5th-6th dman?? OK that makes a lot of sense..

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12-31-2010, 08:21 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by nophun View Post
Don't mind me.
I am just quoting this so I remember to come back and troll the poster latter.
Yeah, "troll" because someone has a differing point of view? that makes sense. Could one of the Leaf faithful just explain to me how this exact guy was rumored to be AHL bound before the season kicked off to get his salary off the books, but now they can trade him for a 2nd rounder??

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12-31-2010, 08:22 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by yohan1212 View Post
So 3.8 million is a good cap hit for a 5th-6th dman?? OK that makes a lot of sense..
lol wut? since when do 5th-6th dman play 20+ mins a game?

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12-31-2010, 08:24 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by yohan1212 View Post
I'll say it now Seguin will outscore Hall by game 82. Now that Savard is back he is playing with Seguinn and their timing is a little off but i see the combo breaking out some points in the near future.
I'll say it now Seguin will outscore Hall by game 82
I'll say it now Seguin will outscore Hall by game 82
I'll say it now Seguin will outscore Hall by game 82
I'll say it now Seguin will outscore Hall by game 82

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12-31-2010, 08:32 PM
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yohan1212 View Post
Could one of the Leaf faithful just explain to me how this exact guy was rumored to be AHL bound before the season kicked off to get his salary off the books, but now they can trade him for a 2nd rounder??
Sure.

Never happened, never heard ANYTHING about Beau going to the
Ricoh. Jeff Finger only. Beau was never mentioned at all in being sent down.

I'll correct that, maybe some poster on here may have thought of this idea, it was never considered by anyone in the know.

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12-31-2010, 08:38 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by nophun View Post
I'll say it now Seguin will outscore Hall by game 82
I'll say it now Seguin will outscore Hall by game 82
I'll say it now Seguin will outscore Hall by game 82
I'll say it now Seguin will outscore Hall by game 82
was unaware the season has already ended. I must have missed alot of games.

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01-01-2011, 12:22 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by yohan1212 View Post
Yeah, "troll" because someone has a differing point of view? that makes sense. Could one of the Leaf faithful just explain to me how this exact guy was rumored to be AHL bound before the season kicked off to get his salary off the books, but now they can trade him for a 2nd rounder??
Making up things now?

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01-01-2011, 12:41 AM
  #109
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ahl bound lol

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01-01-2011, 01:42 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Pure View Post
I thought Schenn goes up against the elites night after night and was already a "top pairing" dman.
Actually, all the Leafs defensemen are top pairing defensemen. And both Giguere and Gustavsson are legitimate starting goaltenders. The Leafs are in the bottom tier of the league in GAA because all their opponents are running the cheats, not because their defensemen and/or goalies struggle.

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01-01-2011, 02:45 AM
  #111
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Actually, all the Leafs defensemen are top pairing defensemen. And both Giguere and Gustavsson are legitimate starting goaltenders. The Leafs are in the bottom tier of the league in GAA because all their opponents are running the cheats, not because their defensemen and/or goalies struggle.
I am a leaf fan but......



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01-01-2011, 02:48 AM
  #112
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Originally Posted by yohan1212 View Post
And alot of Leaf fans live in la la land, don't they?? If Beach. had a decent contract he may be able to fetch a 2nd or 3rd rounder. At 3.8 million, he aint getting much more than a 4th or 5th rounder period. Wouldnt be surprised if they have tried trading him but have no takers at that salary. He was rumored to be AHL bound for that exact reason, but now you tell me he has good trade value?? OK....
I don't know where you get your hockey news from, but please find a different source.


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01-01-2011, 10:34 AM
  #113
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Originally Posted by brevard View Post
It is mismanagement on their part and foolhardy on your part if you actually think Toronto will be a good team next year.

As noted earlier that is the Leafs biggest problem and some people (YOU) actually buy into it. Not all teams have management dumb enough to simply want to get better each year. The object is to win the cup. Intelligent management sees where they are when they take over (point A) and determines how to best go about building a team capable of being champions (point B).

You seem concerned that if Kabs were traded for a 1st and a 3rd, Beauch were traded for a 2nd and 4th and Komi were traded for a 4th that your team would be worse?
You had those guys last year and there was only 1 team worse than yours why are you pretending they are so damn valuable?
Actually as i recall you blamed everything wrong in Leaf land on Toskala, well I got news for you, these steller D-man along with the Monster and Giggy have a GAA that is only about 0.2 lower than last year. Yep, approx 1 goal every 5 games. So tell me again how hard it would be to replace Beauch?

The philosophy you support is a losers plan.
I don't think they'll be a good team next year, but I also realize that every team in the league (including the one that plays in Toronto) aspires to be good next year.

As noted earlier the Leafs biggest problem is their misevaluation of talent and the market. Burke thought he could get a big winger in free agency. He thought Tyler Bozak/Nazem Kadri/Mikhail Grabovski would be good enough centres. The object is to win the cup, and that starts with getting to the playoffs.

By your ridiculous standard, it's impossible to have good players on a bad team. Toskala was a major problem last year, Giguere hasn't been significantly better, while the team has been unable to generate offensive pressure.

How hard would it be to replace Beauchemin? Very. Look at the UFAs out there, who would be a better partner for Phaneuf and cost anywhere near $3.8m? If there were tons of Beauchemins available, he wouldn't be able to command a 2nd+ or late first.

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Originally Posted by SoulAssassin View Post
Why arent picks going to do it? They're 28th in the league now, losing Beauchemin is going to put them where? Getting a 2nd Round Pick for Beauchemin, and freeing up his contract space does it for me, and Im sure would do it for a lot of Leaf fans. The Leafs are a mess, slice it, dice it, and chop it up anyway you want. Losing a couple of bigger contracts and having more then ample space to retool would be more then fine. Im not a Gunnarsson fan either, but if he's as good as the HFBoard's Leaf fans think he is, he should have no problem playing 4th D-man minutes.

Blow up the ship man, who gives a flying fuk if they're bad for the time being. Beauch, Komi, Kabs, Grabo, Orr, and whoever else may be wanted send them on their way. Get young, free up cap space, and make moves this summer. Guys like Brad Richards, Brooks Laich, Erik Cole, Curtis Glencross, Alexander Semin can be obtained for nothing if you have capspace. These could help immediately while the picks/prospects you get for the others will help not too far down the road.
Draft picks aren't going to do it because outside of top ~10, they generally take 2 years before making the NHL (if ever), and 3-4 years before making anything more than a bottom-of-the-lineup contribution. They can't get much worse, but Beauchemin is a guy that will be integral to getting better. Freeing up his contract space is not a good thing, because we'll need to replace him and it'll most likely cost us upwards of $3.8m to do so.

Gunnarsson is a good young defenceman, but expecting him to play alongside Dion Phaneuf in the top 4 is exactly the same mistake the Leafs made with Kadri. You have to make young players earn their spot.

The Leafs have to get rid of Komisarek & Giguere (or at least reduce his cap hit by about $3.5m). If/when they do that, they'll have plenty of space to sign a Brad Richards/Brooks Laich if they hit UFA.

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Originally Posted by SoulAssassin View Post
Amazingly 3 of us have layed out to jfried the reality that is the Maple Leafs..

That being..

1) How much worse can the Leafs get by trading one or all of Kaberle, Beauchemin, and Komisarek?!
2) The Leafs will not be better next year, until the actually start to rebuild
3) The fans, much like the management year after year fail to properly evaluate their team
1) They can't get much worse, but they won't get any better if they fix their offence at the cost of their defence.
2) They have been rebuilding for the last 2 years basically.
3) Your point being? If Burke could've picked up a big forward, he would have.

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Originally Posted by FreeBird View Post
They finished 29th last year and have less pts after the same amount of games played so far this year. You can't get any worse with Beauchemin why not try some thing without him. What could it hurt.
It would hurt our chances of getting better. The guy is a good defenceman earning his contract, we've got other problems (Komisarek, Giguere, Wilson and a complete lack of size up front). Combined Komi/Giguere make over $10m, we have a Komisarek replacement who's on an ELC, and goalies of Giguere's calibre generally go for ~$2m. We also have a $1.4m cap penalty from last year and came into the year with about $3.5m in cap space.


Last edited by seanlinden: 01-01-2011 at 10:39 AM.
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01-01-2011, 10:39 AM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Kingsfan1 View Post
TFP says Kings have interest and have been scouting the Leafs


What would it take ?

please be realistic


NO SCHENN
Beauchemin for Clifford and a 2nd or 3rd?

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01-01-2011, 11:24 AM
  #115
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I am a leaf fan but......


I'm pretty sure he's being sarcastic

I thought "running the cheats" should've given it away already.

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01-01-2011, 11:56 AM
  #116
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Beauchemin is a product of the leafs system.

Meaning he would be better suited on a defensive minded team like Phoenix.

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01-01-2011, 12:04 PM
  #117
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Wow looking at some post on returns for beachemin... some Leaf fans seems to be in marshmellow land. You won't get first for Beachemin...

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01-01-2011, 12:06 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by yohan1212 View Post
And alot of Leaf fans live in la la land, don't they?? If Beach. had a decent contract he may be able to fetch a 2nd or 3rd rounder. At 3.8 million, he aint getting much more than a 4th or 5th rounder period. Wouldnt be surprised if they have tried trading him but have no takers at that salary. He was rumored to be AHL bound for that exact reason, but now you tell me he has good trade value?? OK....
If Shane O'Brien can land a first I suspect a guy who has put up more minutes than all but about 5-10 d-men since the lockout can fetch more than a 4th or 5th. You can try to pretend that 3.8 is a big salary but it isn't.

Just to give you some semblance of how the real world of being a GM works, here's some trades from 2009-10 involving 2nds through 5ths:

Evgeny Artyukhin for Drew Miller + 3rd-round pick in 2010

Anton Stralman for 3rd-round pick in 2010

Chuck Kobasew for Craig Weller + Alexander Fallstrom + 2nd-round pick in 2011

Daniel Paille for 3rd-round pick in 2010 + conditional 4th-round pick in 2010

Kyle Chipchura for 4th-round pick in 2011

Dominic Moore for 2nd-round pick in 2011

Matt Cullen for Alexandre Picard + 2nd-round pick in 2010

Jordan Leopold for 2nd-round pick in 2010

Denis Grebeshkov for 2nd-round pick in 2010

Andy Sutton for 2nd-round pick in 2010

Steven Kampfer for 4th-round pick in 2010 or 2011

Eric Belanger for 2nd-round pick in 2010

Dustin Boyd for 4th-round pick in 2010

Andrew Alberts for 3rd-round pick in 2010

How do you think Beauchemin compares to that group? Before you answer, try putting on a real world GM hat, not the one you are obviously wearing. Ask yourself why over 6 seasons the only guys in the league receiving more ice time are Pronger, Lidstrom, Chara, Niedermayer, Keith, Gonchar and maybe Phaneuf, Rafalski, Boyle, Timonen and McCabe.

Where on Earth did you hear he was rumoured to be AHL bound?


Last edited by eyeball11: 01-01-2011 at 12:30 PM.
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01-01-2011, 12:31 PM
  #119
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I'd consider Beauchemin on the Ducks again for the 2nd pairing with Fowler if the price was right TBH. Still like Fran.

But it would mean one of Lilja / Sutton would be the #7 Dman and you don't want to be spending $2m on a #7 [Sutton] since Lilja is doing pretty well currently paired with Fowler.

I mean Beauch can't be playing THAT bad, I don't watch a lot of the Leafs but surely it's just fans blowing it out of proportion..?

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01-01-2011, 12:56 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by eyeball11 View Post
If Shane O'Brien can land a first I suspect a guy who has put up more minutes than all but about 5-10 d-men since the lockout can fetch more than a 4th or 5th. You can try to pretend that 3.8 is a big salary but it isn't.

Just to give you some semblance of how the real world of being a GM works, here's some trades from 2009-10 involving 2nds through 5ths:

Evgeny Artyukhin for Drew Miller + 3rd-round pick in 2010

Anton Stralman for 3rd-round pick in 2010

Chuck Kobasew for Craig Weller + Alexander Fallstrom + 2nd-round pick in 2011

Daniel Paille for 3rd-round pick in 2010 + conditional 4th-round pick in 2010

Kyle Chipchura for 4th-round pick in 2011

Dominic Moore for 2nd-round pick in 2011

Matt Cullen for Alexandre Picard + 2nd-round pick in 2010

Jordan Leopold for 2nd-round pick in 2010

Denis Grebeshkov for 2nd-round pick in 2010

Andy Sutton for 2nd-round pick in 2010

Steven Kampfer for 4th-round pick in 2010 or 2011

Eric Belanger for 2nd-round pick in 2010

Dustin Boyd for 4th-round pick in 2010

Andrew Alberts for 3rd-round pick in 2010

How do you think Beauchemin compares to that group? Before you answer, try putting on a real world GM hat, not the one you are obviously wearing. Ask yourself why over 6 seasons the only guys in the league receiving more ice time are Pronger, Lidstrom, Chara, Niedermayer, Keith, Gonchar and maybe Phaneuf, Rafalski, Boyle, Timonen and McCabe.

Where on Earth did you hear he was rumoured to be AHL bound?
Look no further than a guy traded a week ago -- James Wisniewski, who was a team-worst -18 while the next worst defenceman was -12 followed by -7. Every year the market changes a bit, but he'll give the best indication. He recieved a 2nd rounder (anyone know who's 2nd rounder it was?) + 5th.

Beauchemin is a better player, can log big minutes and is extremely versatile so he can play with just about anyone in all situations (PK, PP, shutdown role, offensive role). He can be a complimentary top pair defenceman for a team that has a big star, or a very good guy to anchor the 2nd pair. He's also got a Stanley Cup ring where he averaged 30/night. Of course TOI numbers tend to get skewed because of marathon games, but he did play more than both Pronger & Niedermayer.

Of course, he has an extra year on the contract, which some will argue is overpaid. I strongly disagree when you see equivalent defencemen like Dan Hamhuis sign for $4.5m after turning down even more lucrative offers. That being said, many playoff teams have guys that are in for raises and in many cases, wouldn't want the extra year on the deal.

However, if Toronto were to trade Beauchemin simply for "future value", they would be much bettter off doing it next year. He's far from the problem on the Maple Leafs blueline, they have nobody to replace him (whereas there is hope for Gunnarsson/Blacker/Aulie to do so by the deadline next year), and we're not talking about a substantial difference in "future value" recieved. If playoff teams get scared off by the extra year, they just won't trade him.

I'm not saying it's impossible for him to be traded, but....

If he's traded, it'll mostly likely have to be a hockey trade where the Leafs recieve a high quality forward in return. A quick glance at the Leafs depth chart reveals that the only needs are players for the top line, and Brian Burke passing on players like Brian Rolston & Steven Reinprecht helps confirm that. In the slight chance that he's traded for picks/prospects, the return on James Wisniewski will be a baseline for what Beauchemin gets.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mightyquack View Post
I'd consider Beauchemin on the Ducks again for the 2nd pairing with Fowler if the price was right TBH. Still like Fran.

But it would mean one of Lilja / Sutton would be the #7 Dman and you don't want to be spending $2m on a #7 [Sutton] since Lilja is doing pretty well currently paired with Fowler.

I mean Beauch can't be playing THAT bad, I don't watch a lot of the Leafs but surely it's just fans blowing it out of proportion..?
It is.

As a collective Leafs Nation decided that they hated him pretty early on (had an awful first ~15 games in Toronto) and have never gotten over it. They look for the one worst stat (giveaways) and think that's all that matters. Yet, they ignore the fact that golden boy Luke Schenn sits 2nd in the league in giveaways, while Kaberle sits 7th. Maybe, just maybe, it's a team-related thing where Toronto relies heavily on their defence to make stretch passes because they know that their offence is highly dependant on the chances off the rush. (due to a complete inability to generate a cycle game and presence infront of the net)


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01-01-2011, 01:00 PM
  #121
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Holy crap theirs fans living in "HATE LEAFS FOREVER" land everywhere. Beauchemin for a 4th or 5th? Wtf lol.

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01-01-2011, 01:01 PM
  #122
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Look no further than a guy traded a week ago -- James Wisniewski, who was a team-worst -18 while the next worst defenceman was -12 followed by -7. Every year the market changes a bit, but he'll give the best indication. He recieved a 2nd rounder (anyone know who's 2nd rounder it was?) + 5th.

Beauchemin is a better player, can log big minutes and is extremely versatile so he can play with just about anyone in all situations (PK, PP, shutdown role, offensive role). He can be a complimentary top pair defenceman for a team that has a big star, or a very good guy to anchor the 2nd pair. He's also got a Stanley Cup ring where he averaged 30/night. Of course TOI numbers tend to get skewed because of marathon games, but he did play more than both Pronger & Niedermayer.

Of course, he has an extra year on the contract, which some will argue is overpaid. I strongly disagree when you see equivalent defencemen like Dan Hamhuis sign for $4.5m after turning down even more lucrative offers. That being said, many playoff teams have guys that are in for raises and in many cases, wouldn't want the extra year on the deal.

However, if Toronto were to trade Beauchemin simply for "future value", they would be much bettter off doing it next year. He's far from the problem on the Maple Leafs blueline, they have nobody to replace him (whereas there is hope for Gunnarsson/Blacker/Aulie to do so by the deadline next year), and we're not talking about a substantial difference in "future value" recieved. If playoff teams get scared off by the extra year, they just won't trade him.

I'm not saying it's impossible for him to be traded, but....

If he's traded, it'll mostly likely have to be a hockey trade where the Leafs recieve a high quality forward in return. A quick glance at the Leafs depth chart reveals that the only needs are players for the top line, and Brian Burke passing on players like Brian Rolston & Steven Reinprecht helps confirm that. In the slight chance that he's traded for picks/prospects, the return on James Wisniewski will be a baseline for what Beauchemin gets.
Wiz has 2g 1 in 2 games for the habs.

Beauchemin has 1 g 5a in 36 games for Toronto.

Wiz is also a FA at the end of the year, so if Montréal doesn't like him, they have the ability to let him go. Beauchemin still has 1 year left.

Saying Beauchemin can fetch what Wiz got should allow Montréal to move Spacek for the same.

Unless the team, really, REALLY wants Beau, I don't see why they should give up that much. Knowing Burke, he'll want a first and an ok prospect.

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01-01-2011, 01:07 PM
  #123
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Wiz has 2g 1 in 2 games for the habs.

Beauchemin has 1 g 5a in 36 games for Toronto.

Wiz is also a FA at the end of the year, so if Montréal doesn't like him, they have the ability to let him go. Beauchemin still has 1 year left.

Saying Beauchemin can fetch what Wiz got should allow Montréal to move Spacek for the same.

Unless the team, really, REALLY wants Beau, I don't see why they should give up that much. Knowing Burke, he'll want a first and an ok prospect.
Beauchemin >>> Spacek

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01-01-2011, 01:10 PM
  #124
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Wiz has 2g 1 in 2 games for the habs.

Beauchemin has 1 g 5a in 36 games for Toronto.

Wiz is also a FA at the end of the year, so if Montréal doesn't like him, they have the ability to let him go. Beauchemin still has 1 year left.

Saying Beauchemin can fetch what Wiz got should allow Montréal to move Spacek for the same.

Unless the team, really, REALLY wants Beau, I don't see why they should give up that much. Knowing Burke, he'll want a first and an ok prospect.
So I guess that means he's going to score 44 goals this year? Toronto has gotten a combined 6 goals from their defence despite having guys that are all very capable offensive defencemen (except Komisarek). Defencemen pick up goals generally by traffic infront of the net, and a strong cycle game down low to open up space. Those are two things Toronto struggles immensely at.

Wisniewski is a UFA which helps his value to many playoff teams, but some teams won't want to lose the guy, especially when he's undepaid. If in fact the Leafs were prepared to trade him for picks, and his market value does drop because of the extra year, they'll just trade him next year. He's a valuable player for Toronto and they'd have to spend more than he makes to replace him.

Knowing Burke, he'll want a player for our first line with size. It's what he's been saying and what the Leafs desparately need. Any outside observer would be able to see that.

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Beauchemin >>> Spacek
This too.

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01-01-2011, 01:16 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by jfried View Post
So I guess that means he's going to score 44 goals this year? Toronto has gotten a combined 6 goals from their defence despite having guys that are all very capable offensive defencemen (except Komisarek). Defencemen pick up goals generally by traffic infront of the net, and a strong cycle game down low to open up space. Those are two things Toronto struggles immensely at.

Wisniewski is a UFA which helps his value to many playoff teams, but some teams won't want to lose the guy, especially when he's undepaid. If in fact the Leafs were prepared to trade him for picks, and his market value does drop because of the extra year, they'll just trade him next year. He's a valuable player for Toronto and they'd have to spend more than he makes to replace him.

Knowing Burke, he'll want a player for our first line with size. It's what he's been saying and what the Leafs desparately need. Any outside observer would be able to see that.



This too.
Which is exactly why a package deal for a bonafide top 6er with size, or a center would make most sense. Not saying were going to get a center though, because there probably aren't that many available. And if they are, the price is probably to steep.

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