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#38: Flyers @ Ducks - Friday, Dec. 31, 2010 - 8:00 PM (ET)

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Old
12-31-2010, 10:28 PM
  #251
Cinerary
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Game. Go celebrate your New Year's now you ****ing bums, since that's apparently more important.

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12-31-2010, 10:28 PM
  #252
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Have a Happy New Year, Gang... better year's ahead.

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12-31-2010, 10:38 PM
  #253
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They need to stop being so cute and just shoot.

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Old
12-31-2010, 10:42 PM
  #254
Garbage Goal
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Looks like they forgot to show up.

Also, I called this back in the beginning of the year when Bobrovsky was doing well so this isn't a new opinion of mine, but I've been saying that goaltending is going to be our aAchilles heal again this season. Homer making zero attempt whatsoever to solve the goaltending problem over the summer is going to come bite us in the ass in some fashion.

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12-31-2010, 10:46 PM
  #255
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Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
Looks like they forgot to show up.

Also, I called this back in the beginning of the year when Bobrovsky was doing well so this isn't a new opinion of mine, but I've been saying that goaltending is going to be our aAchilles heal again this season. Homer making zero attempt whatsoever to solve the goaltending problem over the summer is going to come bite us in the ass in some fashion.
Ahh, I love it when the "I told you so" crowd shows up after a loss.

Oh yeah, and I guess talking with Turco and Nabokov and getting a promising young goaltender into the system who subsequently won a Rookie of the Month award amounts to "zero attempt whatsoever" to fix a perceived problem.

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Old
12-31-2010, 10:51 PM
  #256
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How was matt carle +/- 0 tonight, i swear he was at fault for at least two goals, maybe three, i used to love the guy, and thought it was amazing when we got him, but the start of this year and the last half of last he's been abysmal defensively, i duno if he's trying to do to much offensively to get things going and gets caught out, or just isnt as good as he's supposed to be (what i think), i duno whats going on, but when summat goes wrong on D it seems number 25 is always on the ice, and the only reason for his decent plus minus is that he can start a breakout and is on one of the highest scoring teams in the league. I really thought that he would develop into a damn good d-man, and while he is competant-ish he just frustrates me constantly on D, moreso than anyone else. I mean, coburn can play D and clear the puck from the zone, check and clear the front of the net out, as well as being damn deceptively fast, mez is offensively good, lays out people and has a strong stick (usually), and decent in own zone, prongs and kimo are obviously gods, and o'donnell is a good dman, even though hes slow and sometimes pisses me of with his whiffed clearences. This year carle just seems to be the guy other offences target, without prongs he seems lost, i know his stats suggest otherwise, but he just seems to be unable to understand how to play D when you analyse it play by play. Please call me out on this if im being too harsh, i just really am beginning to dislike the guy when i used to think he was the third best dman after prongs and kimmo (which is a massive compliment imo, but that now seems to be mez imo.) Bad start to a new year , though we (the english!) have defo claimed the ashes in style!

And happy new year! Its been the teenies for 4 hours here, and still it feels the same, maybe even worse, the flyers lost, and my brother walked dog **** into the house when he let the new year in!


Last edited by Appleyard: 12-31-2010 at 11:03 PM.
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Old
12-31-2010, 10:51 PM
  #257
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Do people keep copies of their old posts so they can beat their chests and say "I was right"? Sure seems like it.

Happy New Year, everyone!

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Old
12-31-2010, 10:52 PM
  #258
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Originally Posted by Sawdalite View Post
I love how the Flyers players have adopted the legacy of the BSB so much... Seems like all the goalies have, and the skaters also.
I love it as well. I just wish that they could play with even half the heart those teams/players did most nights. Those teams left it all on the ice and took nothing for granted. They made you earn every inch. This team just leaves you going WTF so often i dont know what to say I love this team but man they could use a good swift kick in the ass alot of nights!! But even that doesnt seem to work!!

I think it is just like another poster mentioned earlier.... If I was Lavy I would fly out tonight to Detroit and screw ALL their party plans that they may have had in Anaheim. "You ruined my night so now I am ruining yours" so to speak

ANYWAYS END OF RANT!!

Happy New Years All

And wishing you all the best in 2010

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Old
12-31-2010, 10:59 PM
  #259
Garbage Goal
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Originally Posted by chaosof99 View Post
Ahh, I love it when the "I told you so" crowd shows up after a loss.
Not saying "I told you so". Just bringing back up a topic that no one seemed willing to discuss or admit to back when we weren't having goalie troubles.

Sorry for bringing up a topic of conversation about hockey on a hockey forum though. How rude of me.

Quote:
Oh yeah, and I guess talking with Turco and Nabokov and getting a promising young goaltender into the system who subsequently won a Rookie of the Month award amounts to "zero attempt whatsoever" to fix a perceived problem.
Yes, banking on a unknown rookie with little pro experience, no goalie coaching experience, and no NA experience to bring us to the promise land is the definition of smart.

Also, he talked to Nabokov and Turco before free agency even started and gave them what was, at the time, low-ball offers (at least for them). Then he signed Michael ****ing Leighton to be our starter before free agency even started. Any person with brains and common sense can tell that that isn't a serious attempt at fixing the goalie problem, especially considering that it was an oversaturated goalie market that summer.

He didn't explore the free agent market at all and obviously wasn't interested in trading for a goalie. Thus there was no legitimate attempt at fixing the goalie situation.

This is even without getting into the fact that he signed an NHL scrub in Leighton to be our starter and then, on top of that, he ended up being injured. He's lucky he fell ass backwards into Bobrovsky being ready enough to play this year.

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Old
12-31-2010, 11:11 PM
  #260
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Thank god I got drunk instead of watching this.

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Old
12-31-2010, 11:13 PM
  #261
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Well considering Zherdev is back in his inconsistent mode and Leighton still looks like he sucks and admits it today by declaring the team saved his butt last night..then you have Shelley and Walker providing zero added value (exception..Panaccio on Shelley!) ...all that wasted cap money and we could have made a legit pitch for Thomas. We would have a proven veteran for the playoffs and for these times when our D sucks @ss......

Granted....with the way the D is playing now ..even Thomas would be challenged to carry this team but it would be better than having to rely on a rookie goalie still learning the ins and outs of the northamerican game and two career backups that can't sustain holding the team up for more than a few games or even periods....

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Old
12-31-2010, 11:16 PM
  #262
Chicken Chaser
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Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
Yes, banking on a unknown rookie with little pro experience, no goalie coaching experience, and no NA experience to bring us to the promise land is the definition of smart.

Also, he talked to Nabokov and Turco before free agency even started and gave them what was, at the time, low-ball offers (at least for them). Then he signed Michael ****ing Leighton to be our starter before free agency even started. Any person with brains and common sense can tell that that isn't a serious attempt at fixing the goalie problem, especially considering that it was an oversaturated goalie market that summer.

He didn't explore the free agent market at all and obviously wasn't interested in trading for a goalie. Thus there was no legitimate attempt at fixing the goalie situation.

This is even without getting into the fact that he signed an NHL scrub in Leighton to be our starter and then, on top of that, he ended up being injured. He's lucky he fell ass backwards into Bobrovsky being ready enough to play this year.
Going to be interesting for sure heading now into the meat of the schedule. Things could get dicy if we don't have a goalie out of the 3 to take control between the pipes. They all seem somewhat capable behind this defense when its healthy to hold the fort for a number of games in a row... Boucher played nicely then had a bad game, Bob's done similarly but we also haven't had them show up and win games for us when the offense doesn't pot 4 goals, which won't be happening all the time as the season goes on and teams start clamping down.

It's troubling to see this team have a hard time putting teams away without having to bury them offensively, I'd love a 1-0 shut out once in a while where we don't need multi point games out of our skill players. Hopefully come trade deadline we have a clear understanding for what's at play in net for better, or for worse.

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Old
12-31-2010, 11:25 PM
  #263
Garbage Goal
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Originally Posted by Chicken Chaser View Post
Going to be interesting for sure heading now into the meat of the schedule. Things could get dicy if we don't have a goalie out of the 3 to take control between the pipes. They all seem somewhat capable behind this defense when its healthy to hold the fort for a number of games in a row... Boucher played nicely then had a bad game, Bob's done similarly but we also haven't had them show up and win games for us when the offense doesn't pot 4 goals, which won't be happening all the time as the season goes on and teams start clamping down.

It's troubling to see this team have a hard time putting teams away without having to bury them offensively, I'd love a 1-0 shut out once in a while where we don't need multi point games out of our skill players. Hopefully come trade deadline we have a clear understanding for what's at play in net for better, or for worse.
I'm not saying we don't have what it takes to win the Cup, far from that, but relying on shaky goaltending isn't smart and last year showed that it isn't a safe bet. Granted, this team is better then last year's (at least on paper) and Bobrovsky is more talented then Leighton, but the point still stands.

I mean, these are the two guys we're relying on to be starters for a cup contender:

Bobrovsky
-22 years old
-No North American hockey experience prior to this season
-No goalie coaching experience prior to this season
-A career high of 35 games played in a season
-A total of 76 games played in his career prior to this season
-An NHL rookie with no AHL seasoning

Leighton
-Shouldn't even have to explain why...but he's a career scrub that shows barely enough talent to even play in the NHL
-He also gave up quite possibly the worst Cup winning goal ever in the history of the NHL last year that lost us the Cup

I mean...why am I the only one who seems actively concerned about this?

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Old
12-31-2010, 11:29 PM
  #264
Chicken Chaser
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Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
I'm not saying we don't have what it takes to win the Cup, far from that, but relying on shaky goaltending isn't smart and last year showed that it isn't a safe bet. Granted, this team is better then last year's (at least on paper) and Bobrovsky is more talented then Leighton, but the point still stands.

I mean, these are the two guys we're relying on to be starters for a cup contender:

Bobrovsky
-22 years old
-No North American hockey experience prior to this season
-No goalie coaching experience prior to this season
-A career high of 35 games played in a season
-A total of 76 games played in his career prior to this season
-An NHL rookie with no AHL seasoning

Leighton
-Shouldn't even have to explain why...but he's a career scrub that shows barely enough talent to even play in the NHL
-He also gave up quite possibly the worst Cup winning goal ever in the history of the NHL last year that lost us the Cup

I mean...why am I the only one who seems actively concerned about this?
good points, most people through the off season were worried if not dead set mad about the goaltending position, but I think the way the Flyers came out of the gate and have played some of the best hockey in the league (despite their goaltending?) kind of helps. Boucher did have a stellar month statistically to his credit...

Perhaps Chris Shafer's propaganda machine is starting to brain wash people

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Old
12-31-2010, 11:43 PM
  #265
Garbage Goal
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Originally Posted by Chicken Chaser View Post
good points, most people through the off season were worried if not dead set mad about the goaltending position,
True, but the difference is that then we thought we were stuck with Leighton and Boosh...the same exact tandem that lost it for us last year in the end. Then Bobrovsky emerged and suddenly everyone seemed to become unconcerned and/or just forget about the goalie problems. At least the way I see it.

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but I think the way the Flyers came out of the gate and have played some of the best hockey in the league (despite their goaltending?) kind of helps.
Well, yeah. Last year they showed that, even with a team not as good as this one, they have the talent to mask any goaltending weakness when they're at the top of the game. That, plus Bobrovsky was on fire to start the season. Those two things combined made it seem as though our goalie troubles were non-existent to any non critically thinking fan. There's two problems with that though. Firstly, as they showed last year, even superb defense can't stop soft goals. Secondly, rookies like Bobrovsky tend to flair out as the season progresses.

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Boucher did have a stellar month statistically to his credit...
So did Leighton last year and we saw how that worked out. When it comes to goaltending, especially crappy goalies behind great teams, you have to look further then the numbers to get a true gauge of things.

Boosh is a backup. That's what he is. There's no denying that as he's been a long established journeyman backup prone to hot streaks. So one good run by him isn't all that surprising. He's still not someone we can rely on to lead the team in net though.

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Perhaps Chris Shafer's propaganda machine is starting to brain wash people
Even Shafer knows that Leighton is a crappy goalie. Albeit the fact that, IIRC, he isn't worried about the goaltending and doesn't share my concern about Bobrovsky.

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Old
01-01-2011, 12:05 AM
  #266
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It's a good thing I'm completely obliterated, otherwise this game would have pissed me off quite a bit. So glad I won't remember it

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Old
01-01-2011, 01:27 AM
  #267
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Yeah, I'm gonna go out on a limb and say the New Year's Eve party I went to was a way better event than the Flyers game.

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Old
01-01-2011, 01:29 AM
  #268
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I wasn't able to watch the game, only saw the score. Did Bob play good/average/bad, or did the defense just blow up again?

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01-01-2011, 01:53 AM
  #269
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I wasn't able to watch the game, only saw the score. Did Bob play good/average/bad, or did the defense just blow up again?
I don't know, I mean it's not as if there's any goals that can be directly attributed to his bad play, but he still looked mighty shaky to me, and I have to say I was just as worried today as I was yesterday when I saw the Ducks shoot. If he plays like that, I'm not convinced he should be the number one goalie.

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01-01-2011, 02:11 AM
  #270
Garbage Goal
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I wasn't able to watch the game, only saw the score. Did Bob play good/average/bad, or did the defense just blow up again?
He played average and the defense was utter ****. Bob played well enough to post good stats and get the win if the defense wasn't ****. I'll just put it that way.

Bobrovsky has looked average/shaky for a while now to me, but this defense has been pitiful overall on this road trip.

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Originally Posted by Ryker View Post
I don't know, I mean it's not as if there's any goals that can be directly attributed to his bad play, but he still looked mighty shaky to me, and I have to say I was just as worried today as I was yesterday when I saw the Ducks shoot. If he plays like that, I'm not convinced he should be the number one goalie.
Meh. He's better then the other two options. Which says a lot about our goaltending.

Ideally, I'd like Bobrovsky to be our backup this year with an established starter leading the way, but we don't have an established starter so...yeah.

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01-01-2011, 02:11 AM
  #271
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Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
I'm not saying we don't have what it takes to win the Cup, far from that, but relying on shaky goaltending isn't smart and last year showed that it isn't a safe bet. Granted, this team is better then last year's (at least on paper) and Bobrovsky is more talented then Leighton, but the point still stands.

I mean, these are the two guys we're relying on to be starters for a cup contender:

Bobrovsky
-22 years old
-No North American hockey experience prior to this season
-No goalie coaching experience prior to this season
-A career high of 35 games played in a season
-A total of 76 games played in his career prior to this season
-An NHL rookie with no AHL seasoning

Leighton
-Shouldn't even have to explain why...but he's a career scrub that shows barely enough talent to even play in the NHL
-He also gave up quite possibly the worst Cup winning goal ever in the history of the NHL last year that lost us the Cup

I mean...why am I the only one who seems actively concerned about this?
Wel because after awhile (aka for years upon years) it gets tiresome to keep blaming and worrying about the goalies. Its not just the Flyers fans but all fans. If the goalies do well, its because of the team/defense, but if they do bad its their skill level isnt good enough. Its always like that and sadly will always be due to this mentality always being used. Should we be worried? Possibly, but most of us have come to terms with our goalies and know that there is a 0% chance of anything changing so what does complaining do about it? Nothing. Like most teams do, from Stanely Cup winners to regular season studs, just minimize the amount of chances the goalies have to save. All you can really do.

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Old
01-01-2011, 02:22 AM
  #272
Garbage Goal
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Wel because after awhile (aka for years upon years) it gets tiresome to keep blaming and worrying about the goalies.
Sure it does, but it's still a major weakness and point of concern. Shouldn't ignore it just because we're tired of it.

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Its not just the Flyers fans but all fans. If the goalies do well, its because of the team/defense, but if they do bad its their skill level isnt good enough.
Not sure what you're implying here. The goalie and the defense affect each other significantly, it's the nature of the game. Thus why sometimes the goalie is to blame and sometimes the defense, in spite of whatever stats show otherwise.

From watching the games, using logic, and looking at player's track records, it's easy enough to tell that we have two garbage goalies and one extremely raw rookie as our NHL goalies.

Quote:
Should we be worried? Possibly, but most of us have come to terms with our goalies and know that there is a 0% chance of anything changing so what does complaining do about it?
It probably won't change because our GM is Paul Holmgren, granted.

Doesn't mean you can't be concerned about it, throw around some ideas, or at least discuss and acknowledge the problem though. Acknowledging and discussing a problem also isn't the same thing as complaining (a word that gets thrown around way too much by the way).

There's also the fact that this all goes back to our GM doing literally nothing to improve our NHL goalie situation back in the off-season, which was something that Homer received heavy criticism for.

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Nothing. Like most teams do, from Stanely Cup winners to regular season studs, just minimize the amount of chances the goalies have to save. All you can really do.
Not true at all really.

You can not sit on your ass in free agency when the market is literally over-filled with goalies. You can make a trade. You can cut someone. You can sign a free agent. Etc.

That's all ignoring the fact that you're acting as if all goalies are created equal here. A good goalie doesn't need the team to minimize the chances against to win. A goalie like Leighton does.

Acting as if the best a team can do to improve their goaltending is have their defense minimize chances against is exactly why our goaltending situation is crap, because our GM shares that philosophy.

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Old
01-01-2011, 02:40 AM
  #273
sa cyred
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Sure it does, but it's still a major weakness and point of concern. Shouldn't ignore it just because we're tired of it.
I was answering your question as to why no one really talks about it. The thing is, it has been talked about, constantly, every month, year after year. Its just this season, alot of us took the "what can you do?" approach.



Quote:
Not sure what you're implying here. The goalie and the defense affect each other significantly, it's the nature of the game. Thus why sometimes the goalie is to blame and sometimes the defense, in spite of whatever stats show otherwise.
Agreed, but many people dont see this. What the next game one of our goalies gets a shutout (especially Leighton). The defense will get 99% of the credit and our goalie will be called lucky.

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From watching the games, using logic, and looking at player's track records, it's easy enough to tell that we have two garbage goalies and one extremely raw rookie as our NHL goalies.
Yep, and thats what it is most likely going to look at during playoffs, unless we trade one of Boucher or Leighton.


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It probably won't change because our GM is Paul Holmgren, granted.
Yep and nothing one can do about it. Being honest, as much as I dislike him, as long as the team keeps on winning, Paul Holmgren will continue to be our GM.

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Doesn't mean you can't be concerned about it, throw around some ideas, or at least discuss and acknowledge the problem though. Acknowledging and discussing a problem also isn't the same thing as complaining (a word that gets thrown around way too much by the way).
Like I said in the first part, it was in response to you asking why people arent talking about it. The topic has been discussed ad nauseum. Many things have been thrown around. For a real long time. New ideas arent really around anymore.

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There's also the fact that this all goes back to our GM doing literally nothing to improve our NHL goalie situation back in the off-season, which was something that Homer received heavy criticism for.
Agreed, but I have to use a Paul Holmgrem quote "what can you do?" The Homer sucks thing is accepted by 97% of the people on this board so most wont argue with you there.



Quote:
Not true at all really.

You can not sit on your ass in free agency when the market is literally over-filled with goalies. You can make a trade. You can cut someone. You can sign a free agent. Etc.
There is 0 evidence that the FA goalies out there would have been amazing behind our team. Should Homer tried have gotten Turco instead of rolling a Boucher/Leighton combo? Sure, but whats to say that Turco wouldnt have a terrible GA/Sv% also? Then we would be talking about how Homer should have went after "x" player instead of "y" player.

Quote:
That's all ignoring the fact that you're acting as if all goalies are created equal here. A good goalie doesn't need the team to minimize the chances against to win. A goalie like Leighton does.

Acting as if the best a team can do to improve their goaltending is have their defense minimize chances against is exactly why our goaltending situation is crap, because our GM shares that philosophy.
Go to the Canucks board where Luongo gets ripped, or even the Habs board where Price still gets yelled at. But on your second part, a GOOD goalie isnt only classified on how he is played here, but also how his defense plays infront of him. Other then Thomas and Price, most of the other fans' goalies will all say their defense is greatly responsible.

Its hard to have a stacked offense, stacked defense, and a super goalie. There is no team in the league that has it. Thats where fans complain about different positions. Example Rangers have a good goalie but complain about offense. Bruins have a good goalie but complain about defense and offense.



Also multi quoting blows. Dont want to do that again.

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Old
01-01-2011, 03:32 AM
  #274
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HAPPY NEW YEARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Althougth the party I was at had girls, all of them had bfs there. It kinda sucked.



About the game...we have no business lsoing to the garbage ass Anahiem Ducks. And ****ing osteo-porosis senior citizen Jason Blake should not have a 2 goal night against us. He should be home nursing his hemaroids and not scoring goals. How does our team let some guy wearing a judd hirsch sweater who eats werther's originals score 2 ****ing goals? Insanity. I also hate Saku Koviu and Visnovsky. ******s.

End rant haha.

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Old
01-01-2011, 03:33 AM
  #275
Garbage Goal
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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
There is 0 evidence that the FA goalies out there would have been amazing behind our team. Should Homer tried have gotten Turco instead of rolling a Boucher/Leighton combo? Sure, but whats to say that Turco wouldnt have a terrible GA/Sv% also? Then we would be talking about how Homer should have went after "x" player instead of "y" player.
It's not that he didn't go after a specific goalie, it's that he literally didn't try at all and went with the worst goalie(s) possible. With the over-saturation of the market and knowing how much all those goalies signed for in retrospect, there's no reason why Homer couldn't have gotten one or even two goalies.

If he makes a decent free agent signing and it fails, fine, people will recognize that he did his best and there was nothing else he could do. As it is, he didn't even try and took the worst route possible. That's quite a feat of fail right there.

Quote:
Its hard to have a stacked offense, stacked defense, and a super goalie. There is no team in the league that has it. Thats where fans complain about different positions. Example Rangers have a good goalie but complain about offense. Bruins have a good goalie but complain about defense and offense.
No one says we need "a super goalie". We're just asking for our GM to try and get an acceptable one. With acceptable meaning decent.

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