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Old
01-01-2011, 06:22 PM
  #26
Richiebottles
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Originally Posted by Newhabfan View Post
Strange that, according to your evaluation, none of the 9 teams that started picking before the Habs ended with better results.

Anyways - Halak and O'Byrne were not traded for the same reasons as Lapierre or Urquhart. Or for the same reason AK "might" get traded eventually (though I hope he won't).

Simple coincidence.
Yea cause they drafted badly. Does that make sense ?

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Old
01-01-2011, 06:32 PM
  #27
onice
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Originally Posted by Newhabfan View Post
Strange that, according to your evaluation, none of the 9 teams that started picking before the Habs ended with better results.

You be the judge and it's only 8. San Jose was ahead of us and they're already mentioned.

Pens
Fleury
Carcillo
M. Moulson

Caroline
Staal

Florida
Horton
A. Stewart
K. Kreps

Columbus
N. Zherdev
D. Fritsche
M Methot

Buffalo
T. Vanek
C. MacArthur
J. Hedja
N Paetsch

Nashville
R Suter
K Klein
Shea Weber

Atlanta
B. Coburn
T Enstrom

Calgary
D Phaneuf

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Old
01-01-2011, 06:40 PM
  #28
montreal
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Originally Posted by Gabe84 View Post
I don't see a connection, no. When Timmins drafted those players, how could he know what coach we'd have years later? 7 years later, to be exact. I know some posters are offended when it is mentioned that Lapierre was a "stud" under Carbonneau, but there is no doubt that he was thriving under a different system.

Each team has a philosophy, each coach, a game plan. Martin's arrival has seen a load of players not getting re-signed, getting traded, getting sent down... The man has a system. He wanted players with specific skill set or at least, a certain attitude. At least, that's what it looks like.

Halak getting traded had nothing to do with bad play. Drafting goaltenders is just extremely random. They drafted a bunch of goalies over that time frame and it just happened that two of them got through the system and all the way up to Montreal. Of course, as you know, you can only have one #1 goalie, and they went with Carey Price. Was it because he was superior to Halak? Or maybe they got a better return for Halak than they would have for Price and they evaluated that both goalies were as good? We don't really know. But we got a nice return for him, and even then, most people thought that the Blues won that trade (I don't want to go into that debate).

I think that the bottom line is this: teams are taking chances on our draftees, and one of the reason we are trading away bottom-line players is because we keep drafting well year after year. White, I think, should be playing on this team. He isn't because we already have 6 NHL-ready players on our bottom six. I think Maxwell deserves a chance as well. That's another debate. I don't see those players being traded away as a sign of anything.

If we drafted year after year 3-4 NHL players, after 7 years, we'd have 21-28 NHL-ready players. There's only 20 spots on a team. So we'd still be trading away picks. Add to that veteran players, undrafted players... You have to expect players getting traded away. The way I look at it: we got something back out of those picks, hence, we drafted well.
This isn't just about the '03, we have traded a lot of prospects in the past 2 to 3 years, I'm not sure what it means actually just that it seems a bit odd to me that we have traded so many prospects in a short time, of which many were replaced by other teams prospects. BP, Pyatt, Eller, Wiz, Palushaj, Schultz, Russell, Pateryn, Bournival, Ramo, (plus undrafted young players Gorges and Festerling) Perhaps there's nothing to it, but I don't recall seeing the Habs ever really do this in the past, trade so many prospects in a short time frame, mostly for other teams prospects.

If the plan is to move out the picks that don't fit Martin's system, than that makes sense.

I was actually never a huge Halak fan, but he played much better then I thought he could for us. Personally I didn't like the value we got back and hated that we got two prospects for our starting goalie. I have no clue what the value for Halak was, but I had hoped it would have been considerly more in the sense of something much better for this year. Now that I've been watching Eller though, I can see why they went for him, and while he's not producing for us now, he could end up being a great player for us. I didn't like the return on the Latendresse trade either, and I'm still not really sure what to make of BP just yet, clearly the skills are there but can he put it all together. At the time I didn't care for the trade at all, now I'm indifferent.

Also there's 23 players on a roster, not 20.

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Old
01-01-2011, 06:44 PM
  #29
Richiebottles
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onice View Post
You be the judge and it's only 8. San Jose was ahead of us and they're already mentioned.

Pens
Fleury
Carcillo
M. Moulson

Caroline
Staal

Florida
Horton
A. Stewart
K. Kreps

Columbus
N. Zherdev
D. Fritsche
M Methot

Buffalo
T. Vanek
C. MacArthur
J. Hedja
N Paetsch

Nashville
R Suter
K Klein
Shea Weber

Atlanta
B. Coburn
T Enstrom

Calgary
D Phaneuf
Pens and ATL

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Old
01-01-2011, 06:46 PM
  #30
Whitesnake
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Originally Posted by Gabe84 View Post
If you can draft one solid NHL player from a draft, you've done a good job IMO.
To each draft their evaluation. In 2003, you draft Getzlaf or Carter and they develop well, you have a guy who fits the ideal centerman, have a great quality/age ratio for years and might be a keeper till they retire. In the end, if Kosty leaves, the end result would be that we will have in mind a tremendous talent that didn't do much for us. In Halak, we will in mind a guy who was a whole lot responsible for 1 great playoffs and if Eller doesn't amount to anything (which is impossible in my mind but we never know), would have ended as having a really poor value after all. Sorry but the end result is not that we ended up great that year. 2003 was the homerun year. You end up with a Carter, Getzlaf, Parise and a few others and just like that you change the face of your team period. Not all years are like that but that year was not the year for quantity but quality.

Oh and another thing....you don't have to hurt your salary cap later on with an average centerman for the next 5 years....

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Old
01-01-2011, 10:48 PM
  #31
MarkovsKnee
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Originally Posted by CareyClutch View Post
Just for fun (dont turn this into a Timmins bashing thread) redo the pick for the habs (dont pick the first 9)

list: http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/nhl2003e.html

my pick: Zach Parise.What a great year he had in his draft year. 61 pts in 39 games in his rookie season at North Dakota.
It's kind of weird that Timmins didn't draft Parise. He's a Minnesotan who was playing college hockey. We went on a bit of run drafting those guys. lol

We did okay in that draft. Getzlaf or Parise would have been the better picks, but Zherdev was drafted 4th, Michalek 6th, Jessiman 12th, Robert Nilsson #15, Bernier #16. I don't think those guys have had better careers than AK. There were more than a few below average players to complete busts in the first round of that draft.

It's the fact that Parise, Getzlaf, Kesler, Richards, Perry went so late that kills people. I don't think I've ever seen a draft where the bottom half of the first round out performed the top half, but that is essentially what has happened with the 2003 draft. Heck, some players picked in the 2nd rd. have performed better than the top half of the 1st rd.

Overall though we got a top 6 winger, an energy player, a serviceable physical defenseman and a #1 goalie. Kostitsyn, Lapierre, O'Byrne and Halak are all legit NHLers.

Still, we missed some big ones, and it is kind of sad to think about that.

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Old
01-01-2011, 11:55 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Frankenheimer View Post
I don't know the history of it, but can the Halak pick be attributable to anything other than pure luck? There has to be a cut off point in my opinion for assessing scouting, at least, where scouting can be attributed as the main cause of the pick. I can't say I know what happens either, it's just that if the team had any inkling of how good Halak was he would have been drafted much earlier.
You probably say that the wings have good scouting for drafting Datsyuk and Zetterberg . Although based on your opinion they were simply lucky.

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Old
01-02-2011, 12:00 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richiebottles View Post
Would have to say Chicago and Philly won . They got 2 really good players each but it also could be about the player development in the team's system and not purely about the draft.
Don't forget Anaheim and Nashville. The Ducks have built their offence around the Getzlaf-Perry duo, while the Preds have built their defence around Suter and Weber.

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Old
01-02-2011, 12:03 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richiebottles View Post
Yea cause they drafted badly. Does that make sense ?
AK is an NHLer playing on the 2nd line. This was a good pick. If you want to look 5 years later at "this" pick, you can say it could have been better. My mom would be an NHL GM second guessing like you do.
We can also look at each team's pick from the last 5 years and say that for a lot....
It's a waste of time and I'm curious what you were saying "BEFORE" the draft......

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Old
01-02-2011, 12:07 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
To each draft their evaluation. In 2003, you draft Getzlaf or Carter and they develop well, you have a guy who fits the ideal centerman, have a great quality/age ratio for years and might be a keeper till they retire. In the end, if Kosty leaves, the end result would be that we will have in mind a tremendous talent that didn't do much for us. In Halak, we will in mind a guy who was a whole lot responsible for 1 great playoffs and if Eller doesn't amount to anything (which is impossible in my mind but we never know), would have ended as having a really poor value after all. Sorry but the end result is not that we ended up great that year. 2003 was the homerun year. You end up with a Carter, Getzlaf, Parise and a few others and just like that you change the face of your team period. Not all years are like that but that year was not the year for quantity but quality.

Oh and another thing....you don't have to hurt your salary cap later on with an average centerman for the next 5 years....
That's a cheap shot. And Lecavalier is signed for 10 years not 5

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Old
01-02-2011, 02:32 AM
  #36
FiveForDrawingBlood
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Quote:
Originally Posted by montreal View Post
1st 10th A.Kostitsyn
2nd 49th C.Urquhart (traded for O.Latendresse)
2nd 61st M.Lappierre (traded for B.Festerling + 5th in 2012)
3rd 79th R.O'Byrne (traded for M.Bournival)
4th 113th C.Locke (traded for S.Belle)
4th 123rd D.Stewart (not offered a contract)
6th 177th C.Lindberg (not offered a contract)
6th 188th M.Flood (turned down contract offer)
7th 217th O.Korpikari (not offered contract)
8th 241st J.Bonneau
9th 271st J.Halak (traded for L.Eller + I.Schultz)


Only Kostitsyn remains from our '03 draft, with Bonneau on an AHL contract. On one hand it seems odd that our 2nd, 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 9th round picks have all been traded within the past 3 years. But on the other hand 6 of the 11 picks have appeared in the NHL with 4 of them getting a regular shift. Not bad for Timmins 1st draft with the Habs, to get 6 guys that appeared in the NHL, but for what's looking like the best draft class in a long time, sucks that we haven't gotten something bigger out of it.

Urquhart/Lappy/O'B/Locke/Halak has turned into Festerling/Bournival/Eller/Schultz and a 5th. Getting Eller and Bournival is nice for the prospect pool, it's just too bad we couldn't get better assets to help us win now. I really like Eller but it would be a huge help to the team now if we had someone that had at least double his production if not triple. Granted I can't wait to see what Eller becomes in a couple years, and now we have an impressive young core at 23 and under with Price/Subban/Eller, just that I would have rather seen us go for it this year (of course if it backfires this place would go nuts)

Wonder how long Kostitsyn has.
That was an exceptionally deep draft though, that was best draft in 30 years since the '79 draft. May never see a draft as good as that again or quite a few years for sure. That and we were selecting 10th overall is what makes it so bad from a Habs point of view.

Only player of substance we got was Halak. Both O'Bryne and Laps made NHL but were fringe players while here. A lot of franchise players were available when we selected, especially in the first round. Guys like Jeff Carter, Mike Richards, Zach Parise, Ryan Getzlaf to name a few. Plus a set of players a notch down from them but still good players, guys like Brent Seabrooke, Dustin Brown, Corey Perry.

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Old
01-02-2011, 03:00 AM
  #37
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Almost 10 years already.. its sick how time fly quickly.. I remember this draft like it was yesterday... Im personally still not sure about what we really got in A.Kost.. Was stellar at the begin of the season but came back to his old habits..


Last edited by NewHabsEra*: 01-02-2011 at 03:16 AM.
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