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Philly Sports Moment of The Year: Flyers' 3-0 Comeback

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Old
01-01-2011, 10:18 PM
  #26
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At least I don't try and hide it..
Yes,... you are an honest fool.

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01-01-2011, 11:46 PM
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Brings a tear to my eye. It's a series I look forward to telling my kids and grandkids about. Seriously unbelievable, I was floating on cloud 9 after that game.
I totally agree with this. The whole playoff run is my best time as a sports fan even if it didn't end how I wanted it too. It was full of the kind of iconic moments that it will be amazing to tell my kids that I remember where I was during game 7 off 'the Boston series' and that I was at game 6.

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01-02-2011, 11:31 AM
  #28
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I tend to agree with the decision, and I realize that I'm on a flyers board here, but I hate it when people denigrate what athletes do because they don't like the sport. Halladay did something that has been done twice in the history of baseball, a sport with a much longer history than hockey, which was an insignificant league with 6 teams until 1967. It was one of the greatest individual accomplishments in the history of American sports. What the Flyers did against Boston was one of the most amazing team comebacks in the history of American sports. They are both just epic performances, that people will be telling stories about to their kids and grandkids for 70 years, remember where they were when Halladay threw the postseason no hitter (or the perfect game for that matter), or where they were when Gagne scored in Game 7.
This doesn't even really do it justice. Winning 4 games a row against good teams is hard... which is why it hasn't happened often in the playoffs (this is without getting into the fact that usually teams aren't in the position of 3-0 in the first place). Sweeps happen with some regularity as well... which, in the end, is really the same accomplishment in some ways.

Perfectos... are incredibly rare. Take away the postseason context and just put 4 in a row next to perfectos, and it isn't even close on the rarity scale.

The significant difference between the two is their meaning to the team.

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01-02-2011, 11:49 AM
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Only other ones that could have come close were the recent Eagles comeback with Jackson's punt return, and Halladay's perfect game. But even so, those were single games. This was a consistent effort over 4 games to turn a series around and comeback from the impossible. They were 5 feet 6 inches into the grave and climbed back out. This deserved to win, and I'm glad it did. Easily one of the best sports moments of my life, and last season was the greatest season of my life.

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01-02-2011, 11:52 AM
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This doesn't even really do it justice. Winning 4 games a row against good teams is hard... which is why it hasn't happened often in the playoffs (this is without getting into the fact that usually teams aren't in the position of 3-0 in the first place). Sweeps happen with some regularity as well... which, in the end, is really the same accomplishment in some ways.

Perfectos... are incredibly rare. Take away the postseason context and just put 4 in a row next to perfectos, and it isn't even close on the rarity scale.

The significant difference between the two is their meaning to the team.
Not on the same level but a major accomplishment of the run was Leighton's 3 shutouts vs. Montreal. Granted Montreal was beat and I'm not a fan of Leighton, shutouts, especially in the playoffs, are way rare, and to get three under that kind of pressure is impressive. People bash Leighton, but it's still worth a mention in this thread.

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01-02-2011, 12:51 PM
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Damn right.

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01-02-2011, 01:11 PM
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As I see it a four game sweep is not comparable to four games in a row form three games down because with the sweep the one team is clearly in a dominant position... Whereas in coming back, there is no one team superiority -- except for a stroke of unique misfortune that would severely destroy a once dominant team -- In cases of a team being three games up the one team, even if barely eking out the wins, has shown that they can win not only at home but can win on opposing ice... The trailing team has often a defeated attitude and finds it hard to focus on the one elimination game at a time that it takes to survive. I believe many a team subconsciously throws in the towel and thinks about a tee time... if not at 0-3, then at least at 1-3 or 2-3 when they have saved face but tire of sixty minutes of due or die per game.

To me coming back down tree games is so much tougher than winning four straight games over any other period... So much has to go right from within the team and outside it... stars have to align and the up team has to be too loose at first, and too tight at the end.

The resilience of the trailing team has to be great... and it is not as easy as thinking that there is nothing to lose... because they have to know that there is over each game of that four game span.

Picture the pressure of a no hitter spanning over a week... picture the between their half inning dugout time thoughts expanded to between games nights of thoughts and doubts and pressure... Think of a one hitter being still a great win, but one loss is at that point a lost season.

Don't get me wrong, I believe both of Halladay's career type outings were tremendous efforts... and to combine them into one season, and have one in a postseason is nothing short of fantastic... and in any other year wort being the event(s) of the year... But, IMO, what the Flyers did over the course of FOUR ELIMINATION GAMES and trailing 0-3 in the last is nothing short of an accomplishment of a lifetime.

I feared that one of the other sports would have stole this honor from the Flyers... I'm so glad that wasn't the case.

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01-02-2011, 01:18 PM
  #33
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But, IMO, what the Flyers did over the course of FOUR ELIMINATION GAMES and trailing 0-3 in the last is nothing short of an accomplishment of a lifetime.
As a 23-year-old Flyers fan, the 2010 postseason even trumped 2004 as the most memorable I've ever seen.

As a Philadelphia fan, you have to give it to the Phillies' world series win, but I think 2010 and 2004 for the Flyers should be 2 & 3 on that list respectively for anyone who is a Philly fan following all the main teams.

Maybe the Eagles finally getting to the Super Bowl? It's not like the Sixers did anything. They got to the NBA finals once in my lifetime though.

So maybe I'm a bit biased, but for anyone my age or younger, the 2010 Flyers postseason (and that series in particular) has to be up in the top 3 if you're a Philly fan.

A postseason no-hitter just doesn't beat that.

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01-02-2011, 01:21 PM
  #34
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Only other ones that could have come close were the recent Eagles comeback with Jackson's punt return, and Halladay's perfect game. But even so, those were single games. This was a consistent effort over 4 games to turn a series around and comeback from the impossible. They were 5 feet 6 inches into the grave and climbed back out. This deserved to win, and I'm glad it did. Easily one of the best sports moments of my life, and last season was the greatest season of my life.
Jackson's play was a great one... but was not a stand alone even... Had the Eagles not did so much to get to a tie game with time for that one last punt, his run back would have been great, but meaningless... Hallady's effort was the entire game, and with only a little help needed from his teammates, and them really doing what they should do -- Chooch maybe an exception, granted -- Big Roy took the ball and executed pitch after pitch/inning after inning.

With the Flyers, the entire team chipped in to work as a unit to overcome almost certain defeat... and that was done over a multi-game period, and not just in one play.

To me Jackson's feat was not even in the same level as the others... And I don't even consider the signing of Lee to be near worthy... Halladay's was unfortunate to be in the same year as the Flyers feat, IMO.

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01-02-2011, 01:28 PM
  #35
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As a 23-year-old Flyers fan, the 2010 postseason even trumped 2004 as the most memorable I've ever seen.

As a Philadelphia fan, you have to give it to the Phillies' world series win, but I think 2010 and 2004 for the Flyers should be 2 & 3 on that list respectively for anyone who is a Philly fan following all the main teams.

Maybe the Eagles finally getting to the Super Bowl? It's not like the Sixers did anything. They got to the NBA finals once in my lifetime though.

So maybe I'm a bit biased, but for anyone my age or younger, the 2010 Flyers postseason (and that series in particular) has to be up in the top 3 if you're a Philly fan.

A postseason no-hitter just doesn't beat that.
A World Series win is great... but that is done each and every year -- except for one -- Somebody has to win the WS... being in Philly, it was great to have it be us... but I had already seen one of those. In my lifetime I may never see another team come back from 0-3 in the NHL... but you have to remember that I'm old. LOL

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01-02-2011, 01:39 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Sawdalite View Post
A World Series win is great... but that is done each and every year -- except for one -- Somebody has to win the WS... being in Philly, it was great to have it be us... but I had already seen one of those. In my lifetime I may never see another team come back from 0-3 in the NHL... but you have to remember that I'm old. LOL
I understand what you're saying about the WS win, but you have to look at it from all angles.

If it was the Flyers who won that year and not the Phillies, I would've picked that as my best Flyers memory over 2004 and 2010 and 1997 (I was too young to remember 1987).

You also have to keep in mind that Philadelphia had gone 25 years without a championship (4 major sports times 25 seasons = 100 seasons of failure). Then the riots in Philly? Come on now.

The journalist in me automatically sides with the best story.

As much as I loved 2010 for the Flyers, the Phillies world series is the best sports story in Philadelphia easily of the decade, and my lifetime as well. I'd put the Flyers run in 2010 2nd right behind that for both the decade and my lifetime.

As a Flyers fan, 2010 comes first, but as a city, it's gotta be the Phils' win.

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01-02-2011, 01:58 PM
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I understand what you're saying about the WS win, but you have to look at it from all angles.

If it was the Flyers who won that year and not the Phillies, I would've picked that as my best Flyers memory over 2004 and 2010 and 1997 (I was too young to remember 1987).

You also have to keep in mind that Philadelphia had gone 25 years without a championship (4 major sports times 25 seasons = 100 seasons of failure). Then the riots in Philly? Come on now.

The journalist in me automatically sides with the best story.

As much as I loved 2010 for the Flyers, the Phillies world series is the best sports story in Philadelphia easily of the decade, and my lifetime as well. I'd put the Flyers run in 2010 2nd right behind that for both the decade and my lifetime.

As a Flyers fan, 2010 comes first, but as a city, it's gotta be the Phils' win.
2008 Phillies
2004 Eagles
1997 Flyers
2007 Phillies
2010 Flyers

IMO, coming from someone that doesn't have a 'favorite' between the 3 sports (want nothing to do with the NBA).

2007 Phillies and 2010 Flyers are basically tied .... I give it to the 2007 Phillies because their comeback was against NY, was first, and came at a time when that type of stuff didn't happen to Philadelphia sports teams.

2004 Eagles were the best football team we ever had here ... could have won 14 or 15 regular season games if they didn't rest. That was a tremendous season, just couldn't finish it off with the win or it would easily be #1.

The Flyers run in 1997 was more impressive. Only lost 3 Eastern Conference games, took out two hated rivals as well as one of the elite teams in Buffalo. The 2010 run, while awesome due to the comeback and the shutouts, were 3 teams the Flyers were better than.

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01-02-2011, 02:05 PM
  #38
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As a 23-year-old Flyers fan, the 2010 postseason even trumped 2004 as the most memorable I've ever seen.

As a Philadelphia fan, you have to give it to the Phillies' world series win, but I think 2010 and 2004 for the Flyers should be 2 & 3 on that list respectively for anyone who is a Philly fan following all the main teams.

Maybe the Eagles finally getting to the Super Bowl? It's not like the Sixers did anything. They got to the NBA finals once in my lifetime though.

So maybe I'm a bit biased, but for anyone my age or younger, the 2010 Flyers postseason (and that series in particular) has to be up in the top 3 if you're a Philly fan.

A postseason no-hitter just doesn't beat that.
All fine and good... but it wasn't a no hitter.

EDIT: brain fart, it was a no-no in the postseason... 2nd one ever. Can't believe he did it twice in one year.


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01-02-2011, 02:05 PM
  #39
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I understand what you're saying about the WS win, but you have to look at it from all angles.

If it was the Flyers who won that year and not the Phillies, I would've picked that as my best Flyers memory over 2004 and 2010 and 1997 (I was too young to remember 1987).

You also have to keep in mind that Philadelphia had gone 25 years without a championship (4 major sports times 25 seasons = 100 seasons of failure). Then the riots in Philly? Come on now.

The journalist in me automatically sides with the best story.

As much as I loved 2010 for the Flyers, the Phillies world series is the best sports story in Philadelphia easily of the decade, and my lifetime as well. I'd put the Flyers run in 2010 2nd right behind that for both the decade and my lifetime.

As a Flyers fan, 2010 comes first, but as a city, it's gotta be the Phils' win.
To be honest I'm completely lost with the riots remark.

I see your point... remember before the Phillies won in 1980 they had NEVER won... and had gone 30 years since their last WS appearance, which was over 30 years from the only other one... The World Series is a major accomplishment that has more farreaching importance for the City and its sports fans.

I grew u in a city of losers with only the 1960 Eagles and the two Flyers Cups and Sixers Championship in a time when there were maybe 16 cities in each league and certain cities were hoarding many of the championships. Philly was made to feel like the poor cousins. The Flyers rejuvenated the City and gave us pride the Eagles and Sixers failed to give us from more major sports... The baby team shook the World... The other teams followed suit and the City became a City of Winners.

But I digress... I certainly see your point and in its context do not argue it one iota... But in the scope of rare and noteworthy accomplishments in the entire realm of sports the Flyers did something that is more meaningful and noteworthy than merely winning a championship.

That said, the aim of every sports franchise and every sports team on any level is to ultimately win their highest respective championship... They Flyers did not do that. Short of that championship however, they did a feat that is tougher than winning a championship, just not as important.

But, yes you are correct in what you said, IMO.

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01-02-2011, 02:10 PM
  #40
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To me coming back down tree games is so much tougher than winning four straight games over any other period... So much has to go right from within the team and outside it... stars have to align and the up team has to be too loose at first, and too tight at the end.
There really isn't a fundamental difference... and the reason it is so rare is that you have to keep in mind that first and foremost you have to have the opportunity to come back from 3-0 down. Most of the time a competitive series never gets to 3-0 down, so most teams that might pull it off aren't in the position to pull it off in the first place. So that narrows the possibilities of seeing it considerably.

You then add in the fact that in a competitive series it's very tough to sweep your opponent. Sweeps generally don't happen by accident... even 4-1 series wins don't happen by accident: one team is notably better than the other.

I think it's the more important moment in Philadelphia team sports, but pitching a no-no (regardless of situation) is incredibly rare... add in that it was in the playoffs, and you have a remarkable Philadelphia sports moment and an individual performance that is probably unmatched in the history of the city's sports teams.


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01-02-2011, 02:12 PM
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All fine and good... but it wasn't a no hitter.
True. There's that part of it too.

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01-02-2011, 02:19 PM
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There really isn't a fundamental difference... and the reason it is so rare is that you have to keep in mind that first and foremost you have to have the opportunity to come back from 3-0 down. Most of the time a competitive series never gets to 3-0 down, so most teams that might pull it off aren't in the position to pull it off in the first place. So that narrows the possibilities of seeing it considerably.

You then add in the fact that in a competitive series it's very tough to sweep your opponent. Sweeps generally don't happen by accident... even 4-1 series wins don't win by accident: one team is notably better than the other.

I think it's the more important moment in Philadelphia team sports, but pitching a no-no (regardless of situation) is incredibly rare... add in that it was in the playoffs, and you have a remarkable Philadelphia sports moment and an individual performance that is probably unmatched in the history of the city's sports teams.
Jester, ... You are aware that the Perfect Game was earlier in the season that the playoff no hitter was actually one bad full count call away from the chance to be perfect... aren't you? (edit: didn't you mention Perfecto? ... I thought I saw that but it's not in my quote.)


... My point with the sweeps verses the 0-3 comeback four straight is that usually the team up four games to none is a better team... rarely does an inferior, or even an even team, go up four games to none... So coming back four games rather than taking four games from the outset is a matter of beating a team that just handed you your ass on a silver platter over three games... one at least on your home ice.

To me it is much more than merely four games in a row at any juncture... and that is taking into account that the opportunity is not as often, which to me goes prove the point that it is harder and more meaningful.


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01-02-2011, 02:26 PM
  #43
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Jester, ... You are aware that the Perfect Game was earlier in the season that the no hitter was actually one bad full count ball away from the chance to be perfect... aren't you?
Yes, I corrected myself.

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... My point with the sweeps verses the 0-3 comeback four straight is that usually the team up four games to none is a better team... rarely does an inferior, or even an even team, go up four games to none... So coming back four games rather than taking four games from the outset is a matter of beating a team that just handed you your ass on a silver platter over three games... one at least on your home ice.

To me it is much more than merely four games in a row at any juncture... and that is taking into account that the opportunity is not as often, which to me goes prove the point that it is harder and more meaningful.
Yeah, exactly... Boston wasn't better than us. And they were notably weaker than us after the injury to Krejci in Game 3.

Game 1: OT loss
Game 2: 3-2 loss
Game 3: 4-1 loss where it could be argued that we were the better team, and they lost their best forward.

While it is surprising that we were down 3-0 and then managed to comeback and win, that wasn't a series like most 3-0 series. Whatever the number of cases where teams were down 3-0, you can probably cut it in half (at least) to arrive at teams that had a reasonable chance of winning 4-0 against their opposition (Flyers against Boston being one of those series).

A notable achievement... but the rarity of it needs to have a bit more perspective put on it. Every single time a pitcher takes the bump he has the opportunity to pitch a no-hitter... in the history of MLB playoffs, it has only happened twice.

Now, whether you want to celebrate the rarity of what you witness as a fan, or the overall meaning is something to discuss here. Without a doubt, a playoff no-hitter is a more remarkable thing to witness (and it isn't close). However, a single game does not win a series... 4 in a row does, and that has more meaning to the team.

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01-02-2011, 02:41 PM
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Yeah, exactly... Boston wasn't better than us. And they were notably weaker than us after the injury to Krejci in Game 3.

Game 1: OT loss
Game 2: 3-2 loss
Game 3: 4-1 loss where it could be argued that we were the better team, and they lost their best forward.

While it is surprising that we were down 3-0 and then managed to comeback and win, that wasn't a series like most 3-0 series. Whatever the number of cases where teams were down 3-0, you can probably cut it in half (at least) to arrive at teams that had a reasonable chance of winning 4-0 against their opposition (Flyers against Boston being one of those series).

A notable achievement... but the rarity of it needs to have a bit more perspective put on it. Every single time a pitcher takes the bump he has the opportunity to pitch a no-hitter... in the history of MLB playoffs, it has only happened twice.

Now, whether you want to celebrate the rarity of what you witness as a fan, or the overall meaning is something to discuss here. Without a doubt, a playoff no-hitter is a more remarkable thing to witness (and it isn't close). However, a single game does not win a series... 4 in a row does, and that has more meaning to the team.
I don't want to take away from Halladay in any way... nor do I want take away from the Flyers feat... It is remarkable that both occurred in the same year... In each case they are rare by the meaning of rare... they do not occur very often.

Hell I believe that No-Nos are a great thing... When Bunning pitched his perfect game in 1964 it was even rarer. IIRC that was the 1st in the NL (at the least the second and first in many decades) and it is remarkable that two have been pitched by Phillies... Now No Hitters and even Perfect Games are less rare, which I find to be a shame. I like the idea that witnessing a no hitter is a once or at most twice in a lifetime thing for most fans... Carlton never did it, yet had multiple one hitters... This season I have sadly come to almost expect seeing one after a pitcher goes a half game w/o giving up a hit... a great feat nonetheless, but was even greater when Nolan Ryan was doing a few times it and Lefty Carlton couldn't.

Hats off to Halladay X2.

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01-02-2011, 04:07 PM
  #45
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I don't want to take away from Halladay in any way... nor do I want take away from the Flyers feat... It is remarkable that both occurred in the same year... In each case they are rare by the meaning of rare... they do not occur very often.

Hell I believe that No-Nos are a great thing... When Bunning pitched his perfect game in 1964 it was even rarer. IIRC that was the 1st in the NL (at the least the second and first in many decades) and it is remarkable that two have been pitched by Phillies... Now No Hitters and even Perfect Games are less rare, which I find to be a shame. I like the idea that witnessing a no hitter is a once or at most twice in a lifetime thing for most fans... Carlton never did it, yet had multiple one hitters... This season I have sadly come to almost expect seeing one after a pitcher goes a half game w/o giving up a hit... a great feat nonetheless, but was even greater when Nolan Ryan was doing a few times it and Lefty Carlton couldn't.

Hats off to Halladay X2.
This is sampling bias (due to a bizarre season) taken to an extreme.

In the modern era of baseball, there have been a total of 18 (modern definition) perfect games... that's dating back to 1900. As Wikipedia notes, more people have orbited the moon than thrown a perfect game in major league baseball. No one has ever done it twice.

2,430 MLB games are played every year (regular season). Now, that number is different historically (they used to play less games)... but if there were 18 perfectos in a single MLB season... that would represent an 0.7% chance of a perfecto getting pitched... we can ponder that number over a century plus of baseball.

269 no-hitters have been thrown since 1875 (that, of course, includes perfectos).

In comparison, 162 times a team has been up 3-0 in the NHL playoffs, and they have won 159 times. So, you have a 1.9% chance of coming back based on that track record. Bad odds? Absolutely... nowhere close to how rare a perfecto and no-hitter are, though.

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01-03-2011, 01:44 PM
  #46
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This is sampling bias (due to a bizarre season) taken to an extreme.

In the modern era of baseball, there have been a total of 18 (modern definition) perfect games... that's dating back to 1900. As Wikipedia notes, more people have orbited the moon than thrown a perfect game in major league baseball. No one has ever done it twice.

2,430 MLB games are played every year (regular season). Now, that number is different historically (they used to play less games)... but if there were 18 perfectos in a single MLB season... that would represent an 0.7% chance of a perfecto getting pitched... we can ponder that number over a century plus of baseball.

269 no-hitters have been thrown since 1875 (that, of course, includes perfectos).

In comparison, 162 times a team has been up 3-0 in the NHL playoffs, and they have won 159 times. So, you have a 1.9% chance of coming back based on that track record. Bad odds? Absolutely... nowhere close to how rare a perfecto and no-hitter are, though.
When using numbers in a discussion it is understood that numbers can be spun in various ways... When looking at your calculations on the chances of coming back from 3 down in a series I believe it should be viewed from the point in time where the Flyers faced the task... At that point there were 161 times it was possible -- I don't believe there were any chances after the Flyers had one -- and only 2 teams came back at that point... The odds are therefore: 1.2% ... Granted, still better than perfect games, but a one in one hundred chance when given that exact opportunity is a huge hurdle just the same.

Now I suppose it could be argued that we can calculate the 2 -- or even 3 -- against every NHL PO series ever played... reasoning that every series has a potential of it happening going into it.... just as every game has a potential of being a Perfecto.

... Just playing with numbers here. haha

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01-03-2011, 02:01 PM
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GoneFullHextall
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that whole series was especially sweet for me for what I had to go thru with Bruins fans around here after the first 3 games. I put up with alot of crap the first 3 games. To have it end the way it did and to see the look on the Bruins faces the next day when I went to work was great.
Of course those same Bruins fans were rooting for us against Montreal haha

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01-03-2011, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Sawdalite View Post
When using numbers in a discussion it is understood that numbers can be spun in various ways... When looking at your calculations on the chances of coming back from 3 down in a series I believe it should be viewed from the point in time where the Flyers faced the task... At that point there were 161 times it was possible -- I don't believe there were any chances after the Flyers had one -- and only 2 teams came back at that point... The odds are therefore: 1.2% ... Granted, still better than perfect games, but a one in one hundred chance when given that exact opportunity is a huge hurdle just the same.

Now I suppose it could be argued that we can calculate the 2 -- or even 3 -- against every NHL PO series ever played... reasoning that every series has a potential of it happening going into it.... just as every game has a potential of being a Perfecto.

... Just playing with numbers here. haha
Not really the same thing at all.

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01-03-2011, 02:58 PM
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Sawdalite
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Not really the same thing at all.
Not the same... nothing is the same... but when playing with and massaging numbers various angles can be approached in the discussion.

Bottom line to me is that either situation is an uphill battle and is a rarity.

One thing though is that Perfect Games and No Hitters are not necessary to take a W and move on... When down 0-3 a team must win every remaining game to continue, so there is no room for error. There is however pressure in both situations; in the Perfecto the pressure builds as the feat progresses... with the comeback the pressure is on at the outset.

But Apples and Oranges... no real comparison is possible... In the end, the votes of people to decide the top sports moment is all we have as I see it.

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01-03-2011, 03:04 PM
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