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Rangers will make every effort to sign Hagelin

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Old
01-02-2011, 03:06 PM
  #26
NYR Viper
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
Kundratek will need another year in Hartford. I wouldn't be at all surprised if Valentenko went back to Russia. Is McDonagh ready? People that watch the Pack regularly don't seem to believe so.
Why do you say Valentenko may go back to Russia? He went before to make money because he had family issues. He knows that last season he was right on the cusp. If he continues to progress even a little bit, he will be a NHL defenseman.

I really think Torts and Sather like his game quite a bit. All they have to do is show the Sauer situation from last years training camp to prove to him he will be given the opportunity to play.

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01-02-2011, 03:08 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by RangerEsq View Post
Kreider won't be making it. You people got spoiled the last few year as guys like MDZ and Step, and a couple other rookies with them, would make it. Maybe Hagelin will make it because he's been real dominant in college, but Kreider just has not been, at least not yet.

Dubi - Step - Gabby
Hagelin - Anisimov - Cally
Boyle - Drury - Zucca
Avery - Christ - Prust
So you say Kreider won't make the team, and then you have Hagelin on the 2nd line his rookie year?

Hagelin's absolute top upside is a 2nd line player.

I really think when Kreider plays with better players he will bring his game to another level. He's not the type to do it himself, he needs someone to keep up with him and feed him the puck, something nobody at his level can do. I think he's an interesting case.

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01-02-2011, 03:17 PM
  #28
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I think next season may be an interesting one. I think MZA, Kreider and Weise are all NHL ready. Plus one of Valetenko/McDonagh and possibly both. Thats a lot of legitimate NHL talent baning on the door.

Frolov
Fedotenko
Prospal
Eminger
Gilroy


One would hope players like Avery and Christensen would not stop the younger players from grabbing a spot.

Dubinsky-Stepan-Gaborik
Kreider-Anisimov-Callahan
Drury-Boyle-MZA
Prust-Christensen/UFA-Weise
Boogaard, Avery

Staal-Girardi
MDZ-Rozsival
Valentenko/McDonagh-Sauer

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01-02-2011, 03:19 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by ColonialsHockey10 View Post
So you say Kreider won't make the team, and then you have Hagelin on the 2nd line his rookie year?

Hagelin's absolute top upside is a 2nd line player.

I really think when Kreider plays with better players he will bring his game to another level. He's not the type to do it himself, he needs someone to keep up with him and feed him the puck, something nobody at his level can do. I think he's an interesting case.
I disagree. With his speed and strength, he is eminently capable of creating his own offense.

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01-02-2011, 03:20 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
I disagree. With his speed and strength, he is eminently capable of creating his own offense.
Agreed. He is capable, but he needs someone other than Palmieri who can give him the puck.....

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01-02-2011, 03:20 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by hockeyviper87 View Post
I think next season may be an interesting one. I think MZA, Kreider and Weise are all NHL ready. Plus one of Valetenko/McDonagh and possibly both. Thats a lot of legitimate NHL talent baning on the door.

Frolov
Fedotenko
Prospal
Eminger
Gilroy


One would hope players like Avery and Christensen would not stop the younger players from grabbing a spot.

Dubinsky-Stepan-Gaborik
Kreider-Anisimov-Callahan
Drury-Boyle-MZA
Prust-Christensen/UFA-Weise
Boogaard, Avery

Staal-Girardi
MDZ-Rozsival
Valentenko/McDonagh-Sauer
I like that lineup. Id rather keep Kreider in the AHL. No need to rush him, let him develop his scoring/offensive game. Id keep Eminger too as a 6/7th D. Ive been impressed with him.

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01-02-2011, 03:22 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Dredden View Post
I like that lineup. Id rather keep Kreider in the AHL. No need to rush him, let him develop his scoring/offensive game. Id keep Eminger too as a 6/7th D. Ive been impressed with him.
I think Kreider is the type of player who you develop at the NHL level. Let him get his feet wet. Physically, I think he was ready this season. Let him play with some of the young Rangers like Anisimov and I think he could really improve and learn A LOT.

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01-02-2011, 03:22 PM
  #33
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Kreider could most definitely transition straight into the NHL next year...the question is though, will it hurt the development of his offensive game? Hes got the size, speed, and shot to play in the NHL and not be a detriment...but, will he be a contributor in a way other than being a 4th line penalty killer?

im not sure.

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01-02-2011, 03:25 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
Kreider could most definitely transition straight into the NHL next year...the question is though, will it hurt the development of his offensive game? Hes got the size, speed, and shot to play in the NHL and not be a detriment...but, will he be a contributor in a way other than being a 4th line penalty killer?

im not sure.
If he was coming from juniors I would say the AHL. But playing him 12-17 minutes a game would probably be a good thing for him. It would allow him to stay fresh and I think just practicing with the NHL squad and seeing how things are done at that level would do wonders for him.

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01-02-2011, 03:42 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
I disagree. With his speed and strength, he is eminently capable of creating his own offense.
He hasn't really created his own offense since we drafted him. I'm not saying he needs to be spoon fed passes in the slot like a Heatley type player, but he can't take it end to end. He seems to be in the middle almost.

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01-02-2011, 04:02 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColonialsHockey10 View Post
He hasn't really created his own offense since we drafted him. I'm not saying he needs to be spoon fed passes in the slot like a Heatley type player, but he can't take it end to end. He seems to be in the middle almost.
We've seen him take it end to end a number of times at BC. Remember that goal at the Beanpot last season?



Quite frankly, we haven't seen a ton of any offense from him yet. However, once he develops, and when the mental part of his development catches up to the physical part, he'll be just fine at creating his own offense. You'll see a lot more of those types of highlight reel rushes from him.

He's also terrific at digging out pucks from in front of the net and cashing in on rebounds. He's not going to be totally reliant on a center feeding him accurate passes.

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01-02-2011, 04:08 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyviper87 View Post
Why do you say Valentenko may go back to Russia? He went before to make money because he had family issues. He knows that last season he was right on the cusp. If he continues to progress even a little bit, he will be a NHL defenseman.

I really think Torts and Sather like his game quite a bit. All they have to do is show the Sauer situation from last years training camp to prove to him he will be given the opportunity to play.
Straight from the horses mouth:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pavel Valentenko
"Honestly, I just wanted to live closer to my family. Montreal let me go without a problem, they were very considerate. Perhaps I will be back there next year."
http://nhl.fanhouse.com/2008/10/31/v...ned-to-russia/

I don't remember it having to do with helping his family financially, and that quote from him seems to support my idea of what happened. He just wanted to be closer to his family, period. Is that no longer the case? I don't know. But for me, when a player takes his game overseas once, they'll always be considered a major risk to do it again. If he doesn't make the team out of camp, I'd wager he's gone for good.

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01-02-2011, 04:51 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by ColonialsHockey10 View Post
So you say Kreider won't make the team, and then you have Hagelin on the 2nd line his rookie year?

Hagelin's absolute top upside is a 2nd line player.

I really think when Kreider plays with better players he will bring his game to another level. He's not the type to do it himself, he needs someone to keep up with him and feed him the puck, something nobody at his level can do. I think he's an interesting case.

I had issues with Hagelin being on the second line, I just didn't know who to put there. I sat there thinking and I really couldn't think who it would be. Maybe Boyle or Avery I guess. There's a shortage of LWs on the team, unless someone like Frolov is signed.

Hagelin is older, having more success in college this year and is a more well-rounded player. I definitely see him making it ahead of Kreider next year.

But the more I think about it, the more I think putting Hagelin on the second line was really bone-headed. Not sure what I was thinking.

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01-02-2011, 04:58 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Fitzy Duke of NY View Post
So you mean to say; they can do some Hagelin on his contract?
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Originally Posted by RangerEsq View Post
This is a prime example of fans wanting youth, and therefore seeing experience as a negative.

In what world do you figure that someone who's never spent a second in the pros would do all the little things as well as a 10-year vet, instead of making rookie mistakes? In what world does a rookie know how to deal with adversity just as well as a vet? In what world does someone who hasn't even played in the ECHL and has not dominated college have the upper hand over a proven NHLer?
Don remember saying I viewed veteran players as negative, rather I prefer youth andthe "youth movement" this team is going through. I'd view fedotenko playing out his career with the rangers rather than giving a rookie a shot. Obviously your going to deal with rookie mistakes but I think one of kreider/hagelin will get a shot at making the team and don't want fedotenko to keep either one out of the lineup for his veteran presence, and minimal offensive input. Also I just want to give a young guy a shot I'm not saying he's going to come in an dominate the league and make no mistakes but I'd prefer youth over fedotenko.

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01-02-2011, 10:01 PM
  #40
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A couple of things I'd like to add on:

-Since he's subject to the ELC, the Rangers can and if need be will throw max money at him.

-This is Hagelin's 4th year in the US, his English is flawless, and he's a smart kid. Without a doubt, he'll look at the organization and the opportunities available in the system and make a decision from there.

-Hagelin is a Torts' style player. Defensively responsible, can play in all situations, shows up every night, makes people around him better, is a team leader.

-While there are other Swedes in the system, there's also college players Hagelin has played against: McD, Step, Baldwin, Cam Talbot, Chad Johnson.

-The roster turnover next year will give Hagelin ample opportunity to crack the lineup. Gone in the left wing department are Prospal, Frolov, Feds. This leaves the Rangers with only 2 LWs in Avery and Dubi.

-For those who think Kreider will be on the Rangers roster all of next year, they're sadly mistaken. It's not a forgone conclusion he'll sign; if he does he needs to make the team and he'll have to deal with the exact same conditioning issues college players typically deal with when making the jump to 82 games a season instead of 40-45.

-Finally, Hagelin will have the opportunity to show how he's been successful at Michigan during training camp. He's a do-it-all guy with excellent passing skills, he's going to turn heads during camp without a doubt.

If he doesn't sign, it's because he doesn't want to play for the New York Rangers, not because he'll be paid better by another team.
Hagelin is going to be competing for a bottom six role against Avery, Werek, Prust, Boyle, Drury, Weise, and Fedotenko (will most likely get another invite). Not to mention Boogaard. Boyle is on pace for 30 goals, Drury is the captain, Avery has one more year on his contract and so does Prust who leads the NHL in short-handed points.

Kreider is going to be a top 6 forward in the NHL and a core member of the Rangers future. The Rangers attempted to sign him to a Pro contract last summer. He played in the Men's WC at age 18. He won WJC gold and an NCAA title... I don't think the Rangers are going to be more impressed with Hagelin's accomplishments in Michigan. Not that they aren't impressed, but in Hagelin's four years he hasn't accomplished half of what Kreider accomplished in just one and a half years. Kreider may very well help lead another gold medal at the WJC and another NCAA title this season. That winning pedegree along with his physical tools, are hard to beat.

They're going to be subject to the same conditioning issues, if any at all, or season length issues. They're both in the NCAA. Conditioning is something they work on individually.

Kreider works harder on his conditioning then most players. His work ethic is outstanding. He put on 15 lbs of muscle last summer. What do you think he will do this summer after signing a Pro contract?

There is a 110% probability Kreider goes Pro when BC's season ends.

I'm not sure if you were trying to debate one making it and one not. But if you were, the odds are pretty heavily stacked against Hagelin making the club next season as a bottom six player, while Kreider is going to be pushed to make it, and will play a top six role, and is capable of playing any role.

I'm not taking anything away from Hagelin. But there's no comparison. Kreider is much further up the totem poll of the Rangers organization.

There will be little, if any, competition for a second line LW position. Sather won't delve into free agency for that spot considering the cap situation and our RFAs needing raises. Frolov will be gone, and Kreider will step in.

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