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Could there be a NHL second division?

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Old
01-03-2011, 12:45 AM
  #101
Dado
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Originally Posted by LeftCoast View Post
Apparently English football is so entertaining that it doesn't need competitive matches between closely matched sides to retain and attract fans.
Imagine that. Perhaps one day the NHL will be equally entertaining, or have fans who love the game at it's highest expression, even if it means there local team tends to lose.

One aspect missing from the analysis is that while the EPL is the top league in England, it is not the top league in Europe. That honor belongs to the continent-wide Champions League, where no team, not even the dozen or so regular contenders, has managed to dominate.

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01-03-2011, 12:47 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by LeftCoast View Post
Relegation works against competitive balance. Because relegation carries with it a financial penalty, relegation / promotion permanently stratifies the league. At least as it works in the English Premier League, when a team is relegated, they lose most (but not all) of the lucrative TV revenues from the Premier League. This means that they can't afford to carry a large payroll, so they have to sell players to the top teams ( so rather than getting better, they get worse). However since they retain some of the PL TV revenues for up to 2 years, they have an advantage over FL 1st Division teams, and as a result, are often promoted again. In every season except one (2001 - 2002) at least 1 of the newly promoted teams has been relegated the following year, and in '97-98 all three were relegated.

At the top of the league, unless something changes, I can safely predict that one of Chelsea, Manchester United or Arsenal (outside chance of Liverpool) will win the Premier League championship for the next 10 years, as since the league was reformatted, only these three (plus Blackburn Rovers) have won it. Manchester United has never finished out of the top 3 since 1992.


This seems to work for the Premier League because these 4 teams have massive, international fan bases who really don't care much if they are beating perennial losers - a win is a win right? This results in massive TV revenues, so why fix the competitive balance issue? Apparently English football is so entertaining that it doesn't need competitive matches between closely matched sides to retain and attract fans.
Bingo. As a fan of a smaller market team, I kind of like being able to know that in any given year, my team has a real, honest to goodness chance of winning a championship. IN the EPL, the highest hope of fans of smaller teams is a fluke win against one of the big teams. Playing in any sort of meaningful game, apart from a relegation game to try and stay in the league, is a pipe dream at best.

In north american sports, you know that even if you suck, there will be a draft that will help you to rebuild your team so you can compete and hope to win in future years. What the hell is wrong with THAT?

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01-03-2011, 12:47 AM
  #103
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if the NHL had releagtion imagine all the ******** anti-bettman fans there would be when the canadian content gets reduced by half.

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01-03-2011, 12:57 AM
  #104
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if the NHL had releagtion imagine all the ******** anti-bettman fans there would be when the canadian content gets reduced by half.
That's the one plus.

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01-03-2011, 01:06 AM
  #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeftCoast View Post
Relegation works against competitive balance. Because relegation carries with it a financial penalty, relegation / promotion permanently stratifies the league. At least as it works in the English Premier League, when a team is relegated, they lose most (but not all) of the lucrative TV revenues from the Premier League. This means that they can't afford to carry a large payroll, so they have to sell players to the top teams ( so rather than getting better, they get worse). However since they retain some of the PL TV revenues for up to 2 years, they have an advantage over FL 1st Division teams, and as a result, are often promoted again. In every season except one (2001 - 2002) at least 1 of the newly promoted teams has been relegated the following year, and in '97-98 all three were relegated.

At the top of the league, unless something changes, I can safely predict that one of Chelsea, Manchester United or Arsenal (outside chance of Liverpool) will win the Premier League championship for the next 10 years, as since the league was reformatted, only these three (plus Blackburn Rovers) have won it. Manchester United has never finished out of the top 3 since 1992.


This seems to work for the Premier League because these 4 teams have massive, international fan bases who really don't care much if they are beating perennial losers - a win is a win right? This results in massive TV revenues, so why fix the competitive balance issue? Apparently English football is so entertaining that it doesn't need competitive matches between closely matched sides to retain and attract fans.
Deep.

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Old
01-03-2011, 01:10 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Dado View Post
Brasil is larger than the lower 48. China is larger than all the US combined, almost as large as Canada. Argentina is within spitting distance of the lower 48. Russia dwarfs everyone. The largest regional area for a pro/rel league is all of continental Europe, for UEFA Champions League.

All those places managed to figure it out, I'm confident Americans and Canadians could figure it out, too.



Might be a good idea, then, to avoid strongly worded statements on the issue. Just a suggestion...
I assume you are talking about soccer teams?

Brazil's premier teams are clustered along the coast, it's irrelevant how big the inner part of the country is. The average Brazilian soccer player makes $1,569 a month. Crosby makes that in what, a shift? (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/soccer-foo...ectid=10620459)

Argentina is about 1/3 the size of the lower 48 - your spit scares me. The premier teams are in 5 metro areas, with all but 4 in the same general metro region. The league supports itself by selling off it's players to other leagues, over 2,000 last year. Is the KHL paying? (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/socce...36107920_x.htm)

China is a communist nation, its sporting leagues don't belong anywhere near this discussion.

The UEFA champions league? Really? An all-star league from all the other leagues? So it is basically the richest kids in every country who get to play? Again, irrelevant to this discussion unless you have some billionaires to ship the NHL's way.

Until someone corrects me on the KHL not being a relegation league (and the owners being oligarchs who don't care about $$), again what their lower level leagues do is irrelevant to this discussion when we are talking about the NHL- if relegation isn't working in their top league why should it work here?

Pick some examples that have some relevance to the discussion before you tell me to educate myself, I fail to see how these have any bearing on the topic. Just a suggestion

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Old
01-03-2011, 11:18 AM
  #107
Shady12
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Why there aren't more NHL teams in Canada. Well, it's a huge country, what, like the second or third largest in the world by land mass?

Problem is, it's a VERY small country in terms of population. 33 million people.

The state of California has more people. The state of Texas will probably pass it up before long.

The United States has over 300 million people, TEN TIMES the population of the larger Canada.

As small as Switzerland is, Canada only has four times the population of Switzerland.

One single hockey market in the U.S., New York City, is also 1/4 the population of the entire country of Canada.

So, Canada just doesn't have enough people to support more than a handful of NHL franchises.

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