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CLB@NSH 1-2-2011 The "Suter. Drink. Weber. Drink." Edition

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Old
01-03-2011, 09:50 AM
  #151
Seth Lake
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Quote:
Originally Posted by token grinder View Post
yeah, but the name on the back means more than the name on the front...in fantasy pools
Not when you've got both of the players in question like I do!

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01-03-2011, 09:57 AM
  #152
golfmade
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Missed the game but glad to see continued dominance of the Jackets at home.

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01-03-2011, 10:02 AM
  #153
glenngineer
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Originally Posted by predfan24 View Post
While I agree with your assessment on Klein I continued to be baffled with people's overreactions to Franson's play. Is his play perfect and does it have plenty of room to improve? Sure, but all in all I'd say he is doing damn well. Let's list the reasons people said he will never be a good NHL player.

1. He is a terrible skater.

While he will never be a burner or super agile I think he has proved his skating doesn't constantly get him beat.

2. He can't play Defense.

He isn't now or will never be a shut down D man. But compared to the way some have talked about him for years he is playing much better than I anticipated defensively. He still has room for improvement as he gains more experience.

People also fail to realize guys has different roles. Boullion for example plays a straight ahead simple game. Chip pucks in and chip pucks out. That's why you don't see a guy like him make passes that get picked off like Franson's did tonight. He doesn't make those passes that's not his role. Franson is an offensive puck moving D-man. One of his jobs is to make that great pass on the breakout to get forwards some space and get them the puck in favorable situations. That job is obviously way more high risk than say Boullion's job.

Obviously Franson is young and he has to learn to pick his spots and not force it like he did a few times tonight but considering his age and experience at the NHL level I don't understand why he isn't more highly valued to Preds fans.
Franson seems to like passing the puck to the middle of the ice. Unfortunately, he does this when he panics or is not in a good position to see the ice in front of him. He needs to make the better play and push the puck towards the boards. It may result in a turnover but at least it's not gonna burn us as bad since a puck turned over at center ice usually means the opposition skating right into our zone with speed.

Cody is getting better but I see these passes a few times a game still and until that improves, he's going to get verbally slapped on these boards.

I find it funny that you compare Franson with Bouillon and that they play different games but then the comments about Klein by you or someone else say he's scarier with the puck. You say that Franson has the puck more and it's his responsibility to make break out passes and sometimes he's gonna miss. Well, Klein plays the same role on his pairing for the most part so why is he not given the same playing field when it comes to criticism?

I'll ask this in all fairness to both players. Who is more valuable to the team right now for these rolls? Klein on the PK or Franson on the PP? I would tend to believe Klein is more valuable as he's usually the top minute man among the blueline on the PK lately and the PK has been pretty good this season once we laid the egg against Toronto. Franson, while he's been good on the PP, is not putting up the numbers that make the PP go as much as Klein is doing on the PK. I hope Cody does start putting up the numbers on the PP at some point in the future. It would be interesting to see what he and Ellis might be able to do on the PP in the future.

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01-03-2011, 10:04 AM
  #154
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Originally Posted by SLake View Post
Yeah, I'd likely stick with...

Kostitsyn - Legwand - Svatos
Wilson - Goc - Hornqvist
Smithson - Spaling - Ward
Dumont - Mueller - Klasen

Could switch back Legwand and Goc, but we'll see what Trotz does. Anaheim will likely keep Belak in the lineup...
For all you line prognosticators, don't forget about Erat. There has been more than a few mentions (radio and message boards) that he is close to returning.

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01-03-2011, 10:15 AM
  #155
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Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post
There has to be white between the goal line and the puck for it to be clear evidence that the puck crossed into the net completely .... after watching a few times I haven't seen that conclusive evidence. If the officials on the ice would have called it Wilson's goal, it probably would have stayed his. Bottom line, the PREDS scored.
If Kostytsin had not put the rebound in, there would have been a review that showed it as a goal. It was not on the ice, so the overhead view is deceiving.
There was also the Hornqvist goal that Wilson had deflected Webers initial shot, then Hornqvist put it in. No assist given to 33. Thought it might be changed, but has not.
Cal O'Reilly being out is tough. I really like his style of play. I know he was having a bit of a slump but still created some great chances.
This being the end of his contract year....... really tough.
Great win for you guys! Tough schedule ahead. Good luck

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Old
01-03-2011, 10:54 AM
  #156
predfan24
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Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
Franson seems to like passing the puck to the middle of the ice. Unfortunately, he does this when he panics or is not in a good position to see the ice in front of him. He needs to make the better play and push the puck towards the boards. It may result in a turnover but at least it's not gonna burn us as bad since a puck turned over at center ice usually means the opposition skating right into our zone with speed.

I find it funny that you compare Franson with Bouillon and that they play different games but then the comments about Klein by you or someone else say he's scarier with the puck. You say that Franson has the puck more and it's his responsibility to make break out passes and sometimes he's gonna miss. Well, Klein plays the same role on his pairing for the most part so why is he not given the same playing field when it comes to criticism?

I'll ask this in all fairness to both players. Who is more valuable to the team right now for these rolls? Klein on the PK or Franson on the PP? I would tend to believe Klein is more valuable as he's usually the top minute man among the blueline on the PK lately and the PK has been pretty good this season once we laid the egg against Toronto. Franson, while he's been good on the PP, is not putting up the numbers that make the PP go as much as Klein is doing on the PK. I hope Cody does start putting up the numbers on the PP at some point in the future. It would be interesting to see what he and Ellis might be able to do on the PP in the future.

Klein doesn't have the same role as Franson. Just like Boullion he is asked to play a simple steady defensive game and he has been good at it this year. Earlier I said I agreed with your assessment that Klein has been the 3rd best D-man this year.

Yes, I also agree Klein is more important to the team success. He's been a steady top 4 Dman who plays against the other teams top 6's. Franson for sure isn't ready for top 4 minutes. But I would consider Franson to have much more value around the league for what he already is and what he has the potential to become. Sometimes reading these boards it's almost as if many Preds fans are oblivious to the asset we have in Franson. I guess it's not too surprising since this franchise has spoiled fans with regards to quality defenseman.

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Old
01-03-2011, 11:11 AM
  #157
darth5
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As a former Klein basher I will put my two cents worth in on this.
I want to publicly say Kevin has greatly improved his game and really become a vital part of the D. He does still have the occasional Duh! play, but many players do. His contributions on balance far outweigh those. At least that is what I have seen if I where giving him a report card now. BTW-- has anyone worked up midseason grades yet?

Franson (who everyone has started pronouncing more like Franz-en-- is that at his request?) does still have lots of those panic stricken moments where he tries to force a play instead of thinking. I believe experience and veteran coaching can smooth this out of his game. If I am right the Preds will have an awesome player, aware of his role and limitations.

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Old
01-03-2011, 11:15 AM
  #158
token grinder
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i think a new drinking game should be: drink every time klein gets hit in the skates with a pass, then drink every time he makes chicken salad out of the chicken @%@ pass.

point being, the guy makes more plays than tha antikleiners want to admit. just like hamhuis wasn't nearly as bad as we made him out to be, just like franson isn't as bad as i make him out to be.

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01-03-2011, 11:41 AM
  #159
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Agree with you 100% token, 8 has been one of our steadiest players.

Noticed something the past couple of games, there seems to be a book on Franson. He seems to get pressured much more then other dmen when the opposing team is forechecking. I noticed it last night on several occasions. When any other dman had the puck behind the net or was getting ready to break out, the Jackets would pressure, but pay more attention to removing the passing lanes, having as many as 3 guys in the zone. When Franson had the puck, someone was on him fast and hard trying to make him panic, which he did on more then 1 occasion.
The real problem I have with Franson lately is the poorly timed pinch. He was caught a couple of times last night. I know we want the d to get involved, but he had to get bailed out a couple of times last night. And a couple of those were pinches at center ice, which doesn't give the other players much of a chance to cover for you.

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Old
01-03-2011, 12:04 PM
  #160
ThirdManIn
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I've been surprisingly happy with our blueline this year. It was my biggest concern with the back up goalie slot being second. Suter and Weber are what everyone expects them to be. Klein has really come into his own as the third guy. Bouillon is a third pairing guy playing second pairing minutes, and sometimes it shows. Isn't his fault, and I don't think it's costing us games (or at least not very many). Franson and SOB work well together. Franson had a bad game, but it happens. I like his game, and I think it's been steadily improving. A lot of that credit has to go to coaching and work ethic, but you also have to look at SOB. O'Brien is out there playing a role that Bouillon tried to play last year paired with Cody, but Shane has the size to do it better. He's throwing the body, clearing the crease, and just plain nasty when he needs to be. It leave Franson open to concentrate more on his aspect of the game, and I think it's really helped his in-game improvement. Not a knock on Cube. He's a small guy playing a big guy's role, and I respect the hell out of it. He has really narrowed his game this season though, and I think he's done all we can expect with the TOI and opposition he faces night-in and night-out.

Oh and by the way, the back up goalie fears have been completely squashed, too.

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Old
01-03-2011, 08:20 PM
  #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigFatCat999 View Post
Per Pred303guy's recon, the injury might be from a Boll knee on knee hit which means not just when the ankle moves but also the knee moves the fracture opens up....

Another center done. Wilson to C? Lundmark call upMilwaukee to raid Cincy of everything they got?
I still have to check the other threads to see what's going on with his injury but his right leg did the exact same thing on the ice that my left did when I broke my fibula and exploded every ligament holding my lower leg together.

He'll be lucky if he gets away with only having one screw put in his leg.

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Old
01-04-2011, 09:48 AM
  #162
triggrman
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Originally Posted by ThirdManIn View Post
I've been surprisingly happy with our blueline this year. It was my biggest concern with the back up goalie slot being second. Suter and Weber are what everyone expects them to be. Klein has really come into his own as the third guy. Bouillon is a third pairing guy playing second pairing minutes, and sometimes it shows. Isn't his fault, and I don't think it's costing us games (or at least not very many). Franson and SOB work well together. Franson had a bad game, but it happens. I like his game, and I think it's been steadily improving. A lot of that credit has to go to coaching and work ethic, but you also have to look at SOB. O'Brien is out there playing a role that Bouillon tried to play last year paired with Cody, but Shane has the size to do it better. He's throwing the body, clearing the crease, and just plain nasty when he needs to be. It leave Franson open to concentrate more on his aspect of the game, and I think it's really helped his in-game improvement. Not a knock on Cube. He's a small guy playing a big guy's role, and I respect the hell out of it. He has really narrowed his game this season though, and I think he's done all we can expect with the TOI and opposition he faces night-in and night-out.

Oh and by the way, the back up goalie fears have been completely squashed, too.
Could not agree more.

I guess Franson takes a beating from this crowd because mob rules dictate every team needs a whipping boy.

Franson does make some plays that leaving saying WoW both ways.....

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01-04-2011, 10:10 AM
  #163
token grinder
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Originally Posted by triggrman View Post
Could not agree more.

I guess Franson takes a beating from this crowd because mob rules dictate every team needs a whipping boy.

Franson does make some plays that leaving saying WoW both ways.....
very true. i am hard on franson but he is growing on me while SOB and boullion, while not horrible, are starting to annoy me for various reasons.

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Old
01-04-2011, 11:11 AM
  #164
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Originally Posted by token grinder View Post
while SOB and boullion, while not horrible, are starting to annoy me for various reasons.
I think what annoys me about them is how they hamper our offense; too many times they struggle to either clear the puck or have trouble keeping the offense going from the blue line. I think when we replace them with better puck movers, think Blum and Josi, we'll see our offense improve alot.

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01-04-2011, 11:22 AM
  #165
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Originally Posted by triggrman View Post
Could not agree more.

I guess Franson takes a beating from this crowd because mob rules dictate every team needs a whipping boy.

Franson does make some plays that leaving saying WoW both ways.....
I think this "mob" still jumps all over KK much more than they do Franson. And really, at least most of us have a rational reason behind either, even if the KK hate is from that god-awful pairing with Hammer last year; wanta' get a chuckle, go over to the DeadThings board and watch them stick pins in their Howard doll.

Franson has shooting skills without question. Franson has passing skills but his judgement leaves you questioning. His D leaves you spelling his name Co*y. And, as someone wrote so thoroughly the other day - his puck handling is poor and even a mediocre forecheck effort is likely to panic him into a poor pass - and he's supposed to be the puck-moving Dman on that tandem!

Franson is a serviceable 3rd pair guy with plus-value PP skills. He's got some upside, but call me silly, but I think a DEFENSEman should play some D.
(and I gotta' help Token hold up his half the mob)

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01-04-2011, 02:35 PM
  #166
token grinder
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i will give marshmellow boy credit, he has taken to trying to use his body more the past few games.i am not nearly down on him right now as i am 51 and 55.

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Old
01-05-2011, 01:03 PM
  #167
triggrman
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Originally Posted by token grinder View Post
i will give marshmellow boy credit, he has taken to trying to use his body more the past few games.i am not nearly down on him right now as i am 51 and 55.
I'm with you there. 51 and 55 both need to step it up way more than Franson and Klein.

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Old
01-06-2011, 08:21 AM
  #168
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Originally Posted by xxClearTheCreasexx View Post
Sk has really evolved as a player since his Montreal days. He hounds the puck and plays with alot of passion. Great to see.
I keep up with form London Knights platers on Centre Ice (Jr seasons tix holder). I'm also a Habs fan so I've seen SK play quite a bit.
er
This might surprise you but for the most part SK is playing the same game he has since Jr. What has changed most is the players he is playing with. Given the opportunity and TOI the kid plays a good honest game.

Without getting into a lot of useless discussion about his 2nd and 3rd years in Montreal, reduced TOI and less talented linemates (3rd or 4th line) made it hard to look good. It was a bad situation that was only being made worse

In simple terms SK deserved some discipline, but it always wasn't fairly handled. The kid has the temperament that would only make things worse if he felt he was being screwed around, and I think in a lot of cases he was. The results were bound to look bad

His style or intensity have not changed all that much. I always found it odd that even going back to Jr some folks characterized his style of play as being lazy some times. He is not the kind of defensive player that runs around in circles looking busy and doing nothing.

In Nashville some team injuries have given him a chance to play with better players. He was given some more TOI and responsibility, and has responded well. I am not surprised at all. I'm happy for him


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