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Old
01-03-2011, 04:13 PM
  #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarto View Post
Your cap can't handle a significant upgrade.

I'll counter with a cap friendly and - hopefully - a well rounded offer to the different perceived needs for SAN (of which I may be way wrong):

[MTL]
Yannick Weber - RH-D (RFA) - promising puck mover with a heck of a shot - fair defensively but still young and his development has not peaked - Mentored by Boyle he could turn into a gem.

Danny Kristo - RH-RW (NCAA) - Was key to USA.Jr team. Speed & Skill. A very high prospect for MTL.

Rights to Alexei Yemelin (KHL) - LH-D - Has all the requirement of a defensive stalwart - Is proven and recognized in the KHL.

[SAN]
Devin Setoguchi

Thoughts?
This is not a thumbs up or down, but the Sharks have Braun in the minors who is effectively a Weber clone. Demers has the same attributes as well. The Sharks do not need another RH dman who is effective on PP. They are more in the market for an experienced puckmover with defensive abilities (think more along the lines of Gorges).

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Old
01-03-2011, 04:52 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by WineShark View Post
And again to be clear ... I am not arguing this is the solution. There are large numbers of players that I would prefer well before Beauchemin who is only a partial solution. But actually getting any of the players available and making a trade that isn't sacrificing a top 6 winger or valuable prospects and picks will not be easy. Like SJEasy, I don't think anyone on this board will be happy with the options that we do have prior to the trade deadline. And yes, again, this isn't the best choice.
Just an FYI. I just checked on Yahoo, Sharks record with Wallin out of the lineup is 8-1-1. That is a huge finger pointing at one player. It is also an indicator that the prospect options aren't as bad as one would suppose.

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01-03-2011, 05:00 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by SJeasy View Post
Just an FYI. I just checked on Yahoo, Sharks record with Wallin out of the lineup is 8-1-1. That is a huge finger pointing at one player. It is also an indicator that the prospect options aren't as bad as one would suppose.
Oh jeez. Hopefully that finally shuts up the few Wallin apologists on here.

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01-03-2011, 05:03 PM
  #79
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Hell I'd take Doherty and Mashinter for Beauchemin. Whose down?

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01-03-2011, 05:09 PM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SJeasy View Post
Just an FYI. I just checked on Yahoo, Sharks record with Wallin out of the lineup is 8-1-1. That is a huge finger pointing at one player. It is also an indicator that the prospect options aren't as bad as one would suppose.
Someone really needs to ask DW at the SotS what his thinking on Wallin was in trading for him and re-signing him to $2.5m with a NTC BEFORE the UFA period started. I get the gentlemens' agreement and all but that is just ridiculous.

This is when I wish San Jose/Bay Area covered hockey like a Canadian city. Someone would have held DW accountable for that by now.

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Old
01-03-2011, 05:13 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by KeziaTML View Post
Hell I'd take Doherty and Mashinter for Beauchemin. Whose down?
Sure on Mash but no on Doherty.

Issue for us is cap. Leafs would have to take a combo of Huskins and Mitchell, too, which I'd be surprised if they wanted.

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Old
01-03-2011, 05:18 PM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilligans Island View Post
Someone really needs to ask DW at the SotS what his thinking on Wallin was in trading for him and re-signing him to $2.5m with a NTC BEFORE the UFA period started. I get the gentlemens' agreement and all but that is just ridiculous.

This is when I wish San Jose/Bay Area covered hockey like a Canadian city. Someone would have held DW accountable for that by now.
Bad stat from Yahoo 1-2-2 without Wallin. I had to go out of my way to get the numbers (game logs). I still think Wallin was one of the worst pickups that DW has made.

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01-03-2011, 05:33 PM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
You are right in that the environment can play a big part of a players success, however, are you willing to take that risk at the cost of asset's and 3.8m in cap space? Maybe he'll have a revival here, maybe he won't.

As for the BTN stats, I'd like to hear Easy's analysis of that. It's strange because I've watched him play quite a bit and the stats do not seem to reflect his play.

Pairing him with Boyle is probably the right option, however that leaves you pairing Murray with Vlasic, which is not ideal (I'd rather pair Murray with Demers) or moving Vlasic down to the 3rd pairing with Wallin (back to that terrible pairing again).

Ideally:
Boyle - Beauchemin
Murray - Demers
Vlasic - Huskins/Braun
Wallin

Murray nor Vlasic belong on the bottom pairing though and should be getting more ice time than either Demers or Braun, so even those pairing do not really work. Plus a PF will probably point out, Wallin being scratched is pretty unlikely.

Boyle - Beauchemin
Murray - Vlasic
Demers - Wallin

Meh. I just don't think either of those is substantially better than what we have now, and it costs us cap space and assets.
We aren't that far apart in not really wanting this as a trade. You just don't want it period, and I am open depending on what we send, and if we sent the right assets away and this is the best we were going to be able to do, I'm OK with it. We will never know what else is out there; doable or not.

Moving Huskins/Mitchell is OK for me ... even giving a pick or prospect down the orginization. As far as cap space, Beauchemin is on an 18 month deal now and we would have to send equal salary back so its not much in cap space especially if we are sending guys like Huskins and Mitchell who earn a little more than they should anyway.

Burke probably isn't going to take Huskins and Mitchell for Beauchemin. But this is the kind of trade that we should all be the happiest with. We can keep good assets like Seto and Stalock instead of sending away multiple assets as we had to do in the Bolye trade.

As far as a Vlasic-Murray pairing, thats a massively better than Wallin-Vlasic. Murray gets a few less minutes making him a better physical player. Vlasic gets the size he needs to help him on the boards and cover his most glaring weakness, and Wallin drops down to play his natural side with Demers. The concept of the trade makes all the D pairings better and thats what you want.

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Old
01-03-2011, 05:35 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SJeasy View Post
Bad stat from Yahoo 1-2-2 without Wallin. I had to go out of my way to get the numbers (game logs). I still think Wallin was one of the worst pickups that DW has made.
Bell is at the head of the class, but I agree.

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01-03-2011, 05:42 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WineShark View Post
Bell is at the head of the class, but I agree.
At least he was able to turn that one around into Couture

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01-03-2011, 05:44 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WineShark View Post
Bell is at the head of the class, but I agree.
Bell helped the Sharks get Couture (although not directly).

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Old
01-03-2011, 06:07 PM
  #87
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Why aren't we interested in Joni Pitkanen?

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Old
01-03-2011, 06:19 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metalmilitia650 View Post
Why aren't we interested in Joni Pitkanen?
Some of us are. I haven't heard any trade rumors about him yet though.

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Old
01-03-2011, 06:25 PM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metalmilitia650 View Post
Why aren't we interested in Joni Pitkanen?
Yep, many of us are interested and much more so than in Beauch.

Haven't heard a peep as far as the Canes interest/ability to re-sign him.

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Old
01-03-2011, 06:35 PM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarto View Post
Your cap can't handle a significant upgrade.

I'll counter with a cap friendly and - hopefully - a well rounded offer to the different perceived needs for SAN (of which I may be way wrong):

[MTL]
Yannick Weber - RH-D (RFA) - promising puck mover with a heck of a shot - fair defensively but still young and his development has not peaked - Mentored by Boyle he could turn into a gem.

Danny Kristo - RH-RW (NCAA) - Was key to USA.Jr team. Speed & Skill. A very high prospect for MTL.

Rights to Alexei Yemelin (KHL) - LH-D - Has all the requirement of a defensive stalwart - Is proven and recognized in the KHL.

[SAN]
Devin Setoguchi

Thoughts?
1) We have promising puck movers. We don't need more. We need capable 2-way puck movers NOW. Not potential ones.

2) Setoguchi has scored 5 goals in his last 7 games. Yeah, he got off to a slow start, but he's improving and he's only 24. And he's also our only legit top-6 replacement right now if someone get injured. Ferriero is a borderline replacement at this point, but IMO has significantly less upside than Seto.

3) Why would we trade a productive player who is in the NHL right now, and who is at least earning his current salary, for two prospects that don't help us now?

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01-03-2011, 06:53 PM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metalmilitia650 View Post
Why aren't we interested in Joni Pitkanen?
Carolina has a chance to make the playoffs.

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Old
01-03-2011, 08:26 PM
  #92
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I liked this moment:


1 punch and Iginla goes down (though he does get back up w/ Beauchemin's help)


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Old
01-03-2011, 09:09 PM
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WineShark View Post
Bell is at the head of the class, but I agree.
Bell at least had the advantages that 1) it was a trade that made sense at the time (and most people lauded it for the fact that Bell should've been a good fit, evne if some people would've rather had Havlat), 2) Bell was not expected to take the career nosedive that he did, 3) and he didn't cost a whole lot to acquire (mid/low pair d-man in Preissing and career AHLer Hennessy). Plus yes he was forced on the Leafs with Toskala in exchange for what became the Couture pick after another trade (although the question becomes what better assets the Sharks could've made out with had they not added the negative value of Bell to that trade)

Wallin was a stupid move at the time that looks stupider now. It's worse. He cost a 2nd in a good draft for a broken down and hurt d-man that couldn't even return to be a shadow of what he once was, never mind that "what he once was" was never anything special in the first place.

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01-03-2011, 09:15 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by The Nemesis View Post
Bell at least had the advantages that 1) it was a trade that made sense at the time (and most people lauded it for the fact that Bell should've been a good fit, evne if some people would've rather had Havlat), 2) Bell was not expected to take the career nosedive that he did, 3) and he didn't cost a whole lot to acquire (mid/low pair d-man in Preissing and career AHLer Hennessy). Plus yes he was forced on the Leafs with Toskala in exchange for what became the Couture pick after another trade (although the question becomes what better assets the Sharks could've made out with had they not added the negative value of Bell to that trade)

Wallin was a stupid move at the time that looks stupider now. It's worse. He cost a 2nd in a good draft for a broken down and hurt d-man that couldn't even return to be a shadow of what he once was, never mind that "what he once was" was never anything special in the first place.
Oh common ..... don't hold back now. Don't make us guess what you think!!!

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01-03-2011, 09:21 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by WineShark View Post
Oh common ..... don't hold back now. Don't make us guess what you think!!!
Nic Wallin is the reason that not every kid gets what they want at Christmas...

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01-03-2011, 09:24 PM
  #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Nemesis View Post
Wallin was a stupid move at the time that looks stupider now. It's worse. He cost a 2nd in a good draft for a broken down and hurt d-man that couldn't even return to be a shadow of what he once was, never mind that "what he once was" was never anything special in the first place.
But Wallin won a Stanley Cup.

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Old
01-03-2011, 09:31 PM
  #97
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The best situation would be for us to sit Wallin, move Murray to the 3rd pairing w/ Braun and let Beauchamin play with Boyle. As a long time Murray supporter, I am going to admit that giving Boyle a more talented partner would make our defense much better.

I also dont think we need to find a new partner for Vlasic. Demers is the perfect fit. I just wish McClellen would stop pairing Wallin with him.

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01-03-2011, 09:36 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by ThorntonFan19 View Post
The best situation would be for us to sit Wallin, move Murray to the 3rd pairing w/ Braun and let Beauchamin play with Boyle. As a long time Murray supporter, I am going to admit that giving Boyle a more talented partner would make our defense much better.

I also dont think we need to find a new partner for Vlasic. Demers is the perfect fit. I just wish McClellen would stop pairing Wallin with him.
There would be no point in just sitting Wallin. If you don't want him playing, waiving him would be a better option (unless he waives his NTC). Having a $2.5M guy as a healthy scratch would take up much needed cap space.

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Old
01-03-2011, 10:50 PM
  #99
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Nic Wallin is the reason that not every kid gets what they want at Christmas...
St Nic?

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01-05-2011, 06:18 PM
  #100
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Report: No Truth to “Beauchemin for Setoguchi” Rumor. | Spectors Hockey http://t.co/3pc5maK via @SpectorsHockey

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