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Bryan Murray on last legs in Ottawa

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Old
01-03-2011, 11:51 PM
  #101
Leachman
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If it's going to happen I agree that it's better to do it sooner than later. We don't know what other considerations need to be made though, so I won't proclaim time spent on diligence wasted.

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01-04-2011, 12:24 AM
  #102
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Alfie: suddenly aging and probably playing hurt, as evidenced by his numerous "maintenance days"
Kovalev: same deal
Fisher: playing hurt
Kuba: recovering from injury
Spezza: on IR, was recovering from injury before the shoulder thing
Michalek: never fully recovered from his leg/knee injuries
Leclaire: hurt

So basically our two top lines, one top 4 defenseman and our #1 goalie are hurt or playing hurt. Many of those who are healthy are playing fine (Karlsson, Shannon, Neil, Kelly, Campoli). We saw how this team can play when somewhat healthy (witness that long win streak last year), unfortunately we just can't catch a break. I agree that some of these players will probably never be the same and that it is time for a major turnover, but I still find it hard to blame the coach or the GM for all the team's ills. Sure, neither is perfect, but there are far worst options out there.

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01-04-2011, 12:25 AM
  #103
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It's time for a change at GM. I applaud BM's effort to improve this team but every time he gambles he loses. Get somebody in here before the deadline so this team has direction past this season.

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01-04-2011, 04:40 AM
  #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrEasy View Post
Alfie: suddenly aging and probably playing hurt, as evidenced by his numerous "maintenance days"
Kovalev: same deal
Fisher: playing hurt
Kuba: recovering from injury
Spezza: on IR, was recovering from injury before the shoulder thing
Michalek: never fully recovered from his leg/knee injuries
Leclaire: hurt

So basically our two top lines, one top 4 defenseman and our #1 goalie are hurt or playing hurt. Many of those who are healthy are playing fine (Karlsson, Shannon, Neil, Kelly, Campoli). We saw how this team can play when somewhat healthy (witness that long win streak last year), unfortunately we just can't catch a break. I agree that some of these players will probably never be the same and that it is time for a major turnover, but I still find it hard to blame the coach or the GM for all the team's ills. Sure, neither is perfect, but there are far worst options out there.


Ya that is my concern as well. This team might have actually been good if they weren't all on life support. So is the problem actually coaching, or are they all just beat up?

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01-04-2011, 06:47 AM
  #105
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injuries are excuses so having them in the lineups and we still lose isn't helping anyone. If everyone who was hurting just sat out and got better we would have the same record but have healthier lines.
Kick em all out.

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Old
01-04-2011, 06:49 AM
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrEasy View Post
Alfie: suddenly aging and probably playing hurt, as evidenced by his numerous "maintenance days"
Kovalev: same deal
Fisher: playing hurt
Kuba: recovering from injury
Spezza: on IR, was recovering from injury before the shoulder thing
Michalek: never fully recovered from his leg/knee injuries
Leclaire: hurt

So basically our two top lines, one top 4 defenseman and our #1 goalie are hurt or playing hurt. Many of those who are healthy are playing fine (Karlsson, Shannon, Neil, Kelly, Campoli). We saw how this team can play when somewhat healthy (witness that long win streak last year), unfortunately we just can't catch a break. I agree that some of these players will probably never be the same and that it is time for a major turnover, but I still find it hard to blame the coach or the GM for all the team's ills. Sure, neither is perfect, but there are far worst options out there.
How it is different than last year?

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Old
01-04-2011, 08:38 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by ARS View Post
Murray's strength is amateur scouting(or atleast he hires people who are great at amateur scouting) but his pro scouting really needs work. A good GM should be excellent at both.
This. He's done a fine job building up our defense through the draft. We have a few really promising young defensman in the system and that's huge. he's failed to deliver a goaltender that can win although Lehner may work out. Leclaire was a horrible disaster. We also have no skill up front in the system which is a big problem for a team that already lacks skill up front at the NHL level.

Probably time for a change but I think we'll all be thanking him for years to come as we watch Karlsson dominate.

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01-04-2011, 09:04 AM
  #108
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This. He's done a fine job building up our defense through the draft. We have a few really promising young defensman in the system and that's huge. he's failed to deliver a goaltender that can win although Lehner may work out. Leclaire was a horrible disaster. We also have no skill up front in the system which is a big problem for a team that already lacks skill up front at the NHL level.

Probably time for a change but I think we'll all be thanking him for years to come as we watch Karlsson dominate.
Leclaire was a gamble worth taking at the time. Just didn't work out due to bad luck and timing. Good on Murray for insisting on the 2nd round draft choice which he parlayed into Lehner.

The next GM should thank Murray for giving him a solid foundation on which to build.

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01-04-2011, 09:28 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by pt_mck View Post
Leclaire was a gamble worth taking at the time. Just didn't work out due to bad luck and timing. Good on Murray for insisting on the 2nd round draft choice which he parlayed into Lehner.

The next GM should thank Murray for giving him a solid foundation on which to build.
Excellent post! Murray is very good on draft day. Lehner gives us hope in that Leclaire/Vermette trade. If it wasn`t for Murray`s ability to draft we probably would have easily lost this trade.

Unfortunately for Murray though, being a GM means MUCH more than drafting players. He tried to make a splash on UFA day (July 1st) two years in a row. I was quite impressed with who he was able to get : Kovalev and freakin' Gonchar!!! but the truth is... it didn`t work out...

About McGuire as GM : On a short term, I believe he`s the perfect GM for a rebuild. He's quite knowledgeable on junior players. I say bring him in on short term to help us rebuild. We just can`t fix this team right now. Time to sell and rebuild...

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01-04-2011, 09:47 AM
  #110
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Making a 'big splash' on July 1st usually does more harm than good.

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Old
01-04-2011, 09:50 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by pt_mck View Post
Leclaire was a gamble worth taking at the time. Just didn't work out due to bad luck and timing. Good on Murray for insisting on the 2nd round draft choice which he parlayed into Lehner.

The next GM should thank Murray for giving him a solid foundation on which to build.
Wouldn't a good GM have known about his injury issues and how fragile Pascal is? I mean most of us knew it was a gamble but we don't have access to the kind of info Murray has. Obviously Leclaire will never play another full season in this league and we lost Vermette for what ends up being a draft pick. Yeah it's Lehner, I know, but it wasn't worth losing a good forward for that.

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01-04-2011, 09:55 AM
  #112
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I guess that part of my resistance to letting Murray go at this point is WHO would come in to replace him. Trade deadline is looming and we need some experience there. Any unless you are looking quick fix like Pierre McQuire type, then a plan needs to be laid down to select the best candidate for GM

I am concerned that Melnyk is losing patience with owning a hockey club. His rant about where we will end up this season is not realistic - then or now...

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01-04-2011, 09:56 AM
  #113
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Originally Posted by L'Aveuglette View Post
Wouldn't a good GM have known about his injury issues and how fragile Pascal is? I mean most of us knew it was a gamble but we don't have access to the kind of info Murray has. Obviously Leclaire will never play another full season in this league and we lost Vermette for what ends up being a draft pick. Yeah it's Lehner, I know, but it wasn't worth losing a good forward for that.
Leclaire only became a joke with the senators. He had a few disparate injuries in his short career but nothing really alarming.

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Old
01-04-2011, 10:02 AM
  #114
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If injury problems are the problem now, they are all things we knew about these players before picking them up. Michalek has had like 14 complete knee rebuilds, Gonchar has had knee problems, Kovalev has heart problems, LeClaire although he only ever had minor injuries, had ONE good season in his career out of like 6 or 7...etc etc...

Its not like we picked up thoroughbred's and they turned into donkeys....We picked up a bunch of donkeys and they are playing like donkeys

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01-04-2011, 10:06 AM
  #115
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Originally Posted by SpartaXVII View Post
Excellent post! Murray is very good on draft day. Lehner gives us hope in that Leclaire/Vermette trade. If it wasn`t for Murray`s ability to draft we probably would have easily lost this trade.

Unfortunately for Murray though, being a GM means MUCH more than drafting players. He tried to make a splash on UFA day (July 1st) two years in a row. I was quite impressed with who he was able to get : Kovalev and freakin' Gonchar!!! but the truth is... it didn`t work out...

About McGuire as GM : On a short term, I believe he`s the perfect GM for a rebuild. He's quite knowledgeable on junior players. I say bring him in on short term to help us rebuild. We just can`t fix this team right now. Time to sell and rebuild...
If Melynk just wanted a guy that drafts well for the short term, then I would suggest he would be better off keeping Murray. The ONLY thing McGuire knows is his the sound of his own voice.

If anyone listened to him or his predictions, they would realize just how often he is wrong.

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01-04-2011, 10:12 AM
  #116
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If Melynk just wanted a guy that drafts well for the short term, then I would suggest he would be better off keeping Murray. The ONLY thing McGuire knows is his the sound of his own voice.

If anyone listened to him or his predictions, they would realize just how often he is wrong.
Predicting sports is one of the most difficult things to do. Brian Burke thought he would win the Kessel deal, wrong.

But I agree if he wanted someone to draft well might as well just keep the current GM, promote Tim if BMs done. The problem is the fan base (who know nothing) actually pressure these decisions as well.

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01-04-2011, 10:13 AM
  #117
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McGuire is the worst with drafts, I remember him bashing the Karlsson pick.

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01-04-2011, 10:14 AM
  #118
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McGuire is the worst with drafts, I remember him bashing the Karlsson pick.
Wrong. He basically had an orgasm over it...and there is proof on youtube.

How can you call an analyst bad at drafting when he wasn't involved with the draft, did not have a team of scouts and did not spend any (or much) time scouting himself.

The only draft he's really been at the forefront of as Asst Gm he got 4 NHLers that played over 300 games out of 8 picks and got a future HOFer at #2 overall.

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01-04-2011, 10:15 AM
  #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrEasy View Post
Alfie: suddenly aging and probably playing hurt, as evidenced by his numerous "maintenance days"
Kovalev: same deal
Fisher: playing hurt
Kuba: recovering from injury
Spezza: on IR, was recovering from injury before the shoulder thing
Michalek: never fully recovered from his leg/knee injuries
Leclaire: hurt

So basically our two top lines, one top 4 defenseman and our #1 goalie are hurt or playing hurt. Many of those who are healthy are playing fine (Karlsson, Shannon, Neil, Kelly, Campoli). We saw how this team can play when somewhat healthy (witness that long win streak last year), unfortunately we just can't catch a break. I agree that some of these players will probably never be the same and that it is time for a major turnover, but I still find it hard to blame the coach or the GM for all the team's ills. Sure, neither is perfect, but there are far worst options out there.
!!THIS!!

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01-04-2011, 10:16 AM
  #120
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Originally Posted by Minister of Offence View Post
Wrong. He basically had an orgasm over it...and there is proof on youtube.
Yeahp, he did however get mad a few years back when Montreal drafted Price, basically saying how stupid it was to draft him when they already have Theodore and Huet in net.

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01-04-2011, 10:18 AM
  #121
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McGuire could easily contribute as a scout or assistant GM. No reason to give him the GM reins.

Far better people out there I'd target first.

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01-04-2011, 10:24 AM
  #122
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Yeahp, he did however get mad a few years back when Montreal drafted Price, basically saying how stupid it was to draft him when they already have Theodore and Huet in net.
And to this day they are team that relies on outstanding goaltending performances. Marc Staal would look great in Montreal right now if they kept Halak...and at the time Pierre did not like Montreal's pick...Gainey went out of his way in his interview right after to say "well, we have another goalie we are going to sign...Halak" like he was just throwing it out there.

Pierre didn't think Price wasn't good...he thought they had other needs...and to this day they do considering they traded away a goalie that basically single handedly took them to the ECF for a guy who may never become a legit top 6 forward.

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01-04-2011, 10:33 AM
  #123
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McGuire is the worst with drafts, I remember him bashing the Karlsson pick.
Fail. He was all over it. And I agree with minister of offense, in that it wasn't the right pick for montreal. Years later they're still looking for the big centreman and they had it in Kopitar.

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Old
01-04-2011, 10:39 AM
  #124
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Fail. He was all over it. And I agree with minister of offense, in that it wasn't the right pick for montreal. Years later they're still looking for the big centreman and they had it in Kopitar.
And TSN suggested Staal, Brule, Kopitar....Brule would have been the likely miss.

Staal-Subban down the road looks highly enticing...they couldn't have had that type of foresight at the time but the reality is Marc Staal and Anze Kopitar were the fits they should have looked for and both have panned out in big ways while goaltenders values are not considered what they were in the early 2000s.

Pierre had Price at #7...which is basically a franchise goaltender projection when you put a goalie that high.

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01-04-2011, 11:12 AM
  #125
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Wrong. He basically had an orgasm over it...and there is proof on youtube.

How can you call an analyst bad at drafting when he wasn't involved with the draft, did not have a team of scouts and did not spend any (or much) time scouting himself.

The only draft he's really been at the forefront of as Asst Gm he got 4 NHLers that played over 300 games out of 8 picks and got a future HOFer at #2 overall.
where was he assistant GM?

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