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Old
01-05-2011, 08:08 AM
  #51
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Originally Posted by Morozov View Post
So you link Suite101 and hfboards lol? I already mentioned those. and one is letsgopens forums lol?

Heck I have an account on Suite101, I could go publish an article right now saying the exact opposite of that one.

You are the second hit on google when searching for Malkin and lethargic. That's how widely spread that topic is.

and you realize you link to a page on a forum with comments such as

"About Malkin, let's not call him lazy. I don't see lazy."

"Malkin looks alive tonight!"

"Malkin isn't lazy. Anyone who thinks he's lazy should watch the Nashville game this season. He is giving strong effort out there. Things just aren't working for him right now for whatever reason. Ultimately it is his responsibility to turn things around and start scoring but his effort is there."
Actually no, it shows up because of an algorithm known as google trends.

Ignore the other 2 links, and quotes from paid professional penguins columnists. Ignore the Corsi ratings. Ignore all of it. Ill say it again.

Malkin is a playing like a one dimensional lethargic center who can be a defensive liability. On top of which, he isnt producing like an elite talent, and i doubt he will again. Carolina says no.

ps when i make my claims, they are backed by analysts, columnists and stats. Yours are just blind assertions.

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01-05-2011, 08:11 AM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewtonsApple View Post
Actually no, it shows up because of an algorithm known as google trends.

Ignore the other 2 links, and quotes from paid professional penguins columnists. Ignore the Corsi ratings. Ignore all of it. Ill say it again.

Malkin is a playing like a one dimensional lethargic center who can be a defensive liability. On top of which, he isnt producing like an elite talent, and i doubt he will again. Carolina says no.

ps when i make my claims, they are backed by analysts, columnists and stats. Yours are just blind assertions.
Yeah the Jewish part in creating German theatre is probably a really hot trend right now.

If you google Malkin and lazy you get even less hits, only one on the first page is even about Evgeni Malkin.

Or they are backed up by someone who writes for free on suite101 just like I do.

You keep saying Carolina says no but I don't see me telling you they should be saying yes lol.

Carolina says no, the Pens definitely say no, have you any other reason to prattle on or you just want to let out some hatred for Malkin?

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01-05-2011, 08:15 AM
  #53
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Not Malkin hatred. Just that his play doesnt warrant his status.

Read this thread, i have done nothing but make points as factually and soundly as possible. All pens fans have done is make ad hominem statements about how im wrong without providing a single stitch of evidence the contrary.

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01-05-2011, 08:18 AM
  #54
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What status? I don't believe anyone in here is really saying he's a top three player atm.

As factually and soundly as possible such as "google Malkin and lethargic" followed up by using evidence from message boards (including your own posts on HF) and user submitted websites?

How can anyone provide you with evidence when you want to believe things like take aways are a sign of Malkin's offensive abilities rather than defensive. Again, I could publish an article on suite101 right now, you used that as evidence, that's as factually and soundly as possible?

I'm posting because I'm getting a good chuckle out of this, but I wonder why you are posting? You've made your case that Carolina says no, nobody is trying to tell you otherwise. You've been hounding away at this thread for like 5 hours now. You'd take Staal over Malkin, good for you, I suspect you are in the minority amongst hockey fans although possibly not amongst Carolina fans, fair enough.

If you want to continue your Malkin is horribly overrated, Staal > Malkin crusade, take it to the main boards tbh.


Last edited by Morozov: 01-05-2011 at 08:28 AM.
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Old
01-05-2011, 08:26 AM
  #55
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Paid Pittsburgh columnists, Corsi ratings, the 2 links which were also professional sports writers. The forums links were just to show you that many agree with me. Again, absolutely everything you say is completely baseless. Blind homerism.

And im doing this because im tired of the Big 3 cliche. It needs to end.


Last edited by Nachoman AlfieSavage*: 01-05-2011 at 08:43 AM.
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01-05-2011, 08:31 AM
  #56
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and clearly those links also show that many disagree with you, so again, what does it prove?

It's hilarious that you say everything I'm saying is blind homerism, yet I'm barely even saying anything. Most people who are reading this thread will clearly see that I'm just talking you round in circles. In fact I've even given legitimacy to your stance on saying you would take Staal over Malkin. Where exactly is the blind homerism? in that I think you are in the minority for taking Staal over Malkin? or that I think he isn't lazy? hey, I'm just calling it like I see it. I've also mentioned faults of Malkin that I have seen, so clearly it's not just blind homerism. But believe it or not, being someone who watches Malkin play, my comments aren't baseless, they are based on what I have seen. Just like yours are based on what you have seen. Just like you provided links that supported your argument, you also provided links that support my side (lol, thanks for that), so you see, people have differing opinions. Which is why I have said fair enough countless times now that you would take Staal over Malkin, again, I'm sure you would be in the minority, but I'm not trying to tear down your opinion, even if I am a blind homer and absolutely everything I say is baseless.

So you sit here for 5 hours because you are tired of the big 3 cliche that hardly ever gets used now? Think I may just stop wasting my time and log off now, I'm sure I'll come back on tomorrow and see you still sitting in this thread saying "Carolina says no". I'm sure if you make a thread on the main board about the demise of the big 3, you'd probably have many people who don't disagree with you for now (or perhaps even suggest that the big 3 now involves Stammer instead of Malkin, omg what a blind homer thing to say). But as this is the trade board, and clearly everyone is in agreement that this trade is stupid, why not take your real issue to the main thread and discuss there instead of hiding away in here?


Last edited by Morozov: 01-05-2011 at 08:37 AM.
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Old
01-05-2011, 09:08 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Dylonus View Post
Wait Malkin is a defensive liablility now? I could have SWORN Staal was moved to RW for those similar reasons last year...

Regardless, Didn't Malkin lead the league in takeaway in 08-09? Doesn't sound like a liability to me...

Anyone who would take Eric over Malkin is delusional. Name one me thing Staal > Malkin at. One.
Nope, he was moved to wing because of an injury. He isn't Selke-caliber but is far better than Malkin defensively. He is also a better leader, protects the puck better, and doesn't get taken off his game by physical play, and is a better battler for pucks in the corner.

Overall Malkin has more offensive skill but Staal is more valuable to the Canes than Malkin would be. For those reasons, Carolina doesn't make that trade.

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01-05-2011, 09:14 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by shawn911 View Post
Pittsburgh- Eric Staal

Carolina- Malkin

Thoughts?
This trade makes zero sense... If Malkin was to get traded which I think he wont be traded anytime soon, then it would be for 2 NHL wingers a prospect and a high pick!!! This will come from a team that wants to build a team around a top player. (EDM, FLA, NYI, Min, OTT,)

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Old
01-05-2011, 09:29 AM
  #59
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Leadership.....
And exactly how can you prove this?

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01-05-2011, 09:54 AM
  #60
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Man, this one really made me think hard. On one hand, Malkin is indeed the more impactful player. Say what you will about his work ethic, but Staal isn't exactly a model of consistency either. Both players float, both players have slumps, but Malkin is a 50-goal type player whereas Staal is just a notch below that. HOWEVER, both are certainly capable of anchoring a #1 line and being all star caliber every year.

What makes it tough from a Carolina POV is that Staal is the face of our franchise, captain, biggest marketing item, all-around franchise player. He's the rock upon which the team has stood for several years now. Malkin is... well... not really that kind of guy. More talented, less marketable, certainly not a captain prospect.

I think Carolina sighs and says no. Not that it isn't a good deal in value, but we can't trade Staal for someone who isn't ready to fill his role in the organization as well as the lineup.

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01-05-2011, 10:24 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Dylonus View Post
And exactly how can you prove this?
You don't...which is why it's a HF favorite.

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Old
01-05-2011, 10:33 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by NewtonsApple View Post
No, Staal is not top 3. But neither is Malkin. And as of right now Staal is producing more offensively without all the defensive shortcomings.

http://www.suite101.com/content/is-p...ntract-a305398

http://www.hockeypolls.com/content/p...n-produce-more

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?p=29199125 (Hf boards where malkin is a god, and still many people agree that he is playing lazy)

http://www.412sportstalk.net/2010/12...more-from.html

>-I wasn’t too impressed with Geno. He had a pretty nice first period, but he did not look good in the final two periods. He gave the puck away more than a few times to start the second, then he seemed to take some hard hits. I hope, for the team’s sake, that he’s not hurt again. One thing that’s worse than a lethargic Malkin is no Malkin.<

Quote from a Pittsburgh analyst after a loss.

http://www.letsgopens.com/scripts/ph...49639&start=25

>When Malkin's lazy backcheck that led to sloppy penalties and lackluster attitude on the ice replaced his defensive savviness and offensive hunger, the disappointment in the fans and media was constricting. People panicked and demanded his immediate trade for a winger for Crosby<

Another quote from a Penguins columnist. They expected it to change this year. It hasnt.


I dont wanna keep searching google. Im not out of line with my claims. Carolina says no.

"The Big 3" is no more.
Staal is producing about the same as Ovechkin right now too, without all the defensive shortcomings.

Does that mean Staal is more valuable than Ovechkin? You know, since we're gauging value based on exactly one half-season.

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01-05-2011, 10:34 AM
  #63
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You don't...which is why it's a HF favorite.
Does it really need "proving"? You and I both know that Malkin isn't going to get a C anytime soon.

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01-05-2011, 10:49 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post
Does it really need "proving"? You and I both know that Malkin isn't going to get a C anytime soon.
Because he plays behind Crosby.

Malkin's play when Crosby was injured in '08 is a shining example of how he can lead when Crosby's out of the line-up. His play in the playoffs in '09 is a shining example of how he can lead when Crosby's in the line-up.

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01-05-2011, 11:11 AM
  #65
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Does it really need "proving"? You and I both know that Malkin isn't going to get a C anytime soon.
Doesn't he wear an A?

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01-05-2011, 11:15 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Champagne Wishes View Post
Because he plays behind Crosby.

Malkin's play when Crosby was injured in '08 is a shining example of how he can lead when Crosby's out of the line-up. His play in the playoffs in '09 is a shining example of how he can lead when Crosby's in the line-up.
Playing a leading role on the ice isn't the same as leadership that leads to a C. A shining example would be when Tampa won the Cup. The more relevant example would be if Malkin and E. Staal were on the same team, who would be captain? Doubtful many would pick Malkin outside of Pens fans.

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Ehh....CW, you know we northerners couldn't possibly know a great hockey player when we see one. Not like Carolinians. They have had close up views for almost 10 years now. Ignore "em.
Thanks for adding nothing but your uninformed stereotypes.

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01-05-2011, 11:16 AM
  #67
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Ehh....CW, you know we northerners couldn't possibly know a great hockey player when we see one. Not like Carolinians. They have had close up views for almost 10 years now. Ignore "em.
You do realize the guy he is arguing with isn't even a Canes fan and although I don't know where he lives, based on his posting history, I suspect he's a northerner as well? And the OP isn't a Canes fan (appears to be a Leafs fan)..so another "northerner"?

You also realize that a large number of people down hear in the South are northern transplants who have as much hockey experience as anyone on this board?

Seriously, disagree with someones opinion all you want, but throwing out juvenile comments like that just make you look foolish.


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01-05-2011, 11:31 AM
  #68
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I think Malkin is the more talented of the two and may score more points per game over Staal in the long run--but I think of Malkin as more of a Jagr type of player. When he is on a team with an established leader (Mario and Francis for example--or Sid for Geno) he can be the piece that puts a team over the top. However, if Malkin has to be "the" man for the team--I just see him as a point producer without any real leadership skills. Now, Staal may never be that man again either--but why consider trading him for someone with even greater doubts. And as others have mentioned, Malkin is not as marketable as Staal--he doesn't speak the language very well and doesn't overcome that deficit by being an overwhelming personality like Ovie. So regardless of value, I just don't think it makes any sense for either team to make the move.

And for all the people talking down Malkin's linemates--who exactly is Staal playing with that is so great?

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01-05-2011, 11:34 AM
  #69
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Originally Posted by StormCast View Post
Playing a leading role on the ice isn't the same as leadership that leads to a C. A shining example would be when Tampa won the Cup. The more relevant example would be if Malkin and E. Staal were on the same team, who would be captain? Doubtful many would pick Malkin outside of Pens fans.
Quote:
Forward Max Talbot, who roomed with Malkin for road trips last season, described him as "definitely a leader on this team."

"It's not by talking, but by acting," Talbot said. "He's always there in the big moments."
Quote:
"Guys, especially when Sid was down last year, definitely looked at him to, I wouldn't say carry us, but he definitely was a leader up front," Orpik said.

"It's something I think he takes upon himself. He might not be vocal, but I think he kind of likes it, to be honest -- being a leader of the team and taking that starring role."
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pitt...rce=rss&feed=8

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01-05-2011, 11:35 AM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Dylonus View Post
Wait Malkin is a defensive liablility now? I could have SWORN Staal was moved to RW for those similar reasons last year...

Regardless, Didn't Malkin lead the league in takeaway in 08-09? Doesn't sound like a liability to me...

Anyone who would take Eric over Malkin is delusional. Name one me thing Staal > Malkin at. One.
Nope, he was moved to the RW last year due to a shoulder injury he was playing through, not because of any defensive deficiency. On top of that, it was also a couple weeks before the Canadian Olympic selection was made and there was speculation that the Canes were giving Yzerman a look at how he can play on the wing.

Any argument about Staal being defensively lazy is stuck in 2006. He's gradually become one of the better top line centers in the league from a defensive perspective.


Not going to get into this Staal vs Malkin debate. It's just stupid and neither team would make the trade for a variety of reasons.

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01-05-2011, 11:44 AM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Champagne Wishes View Post
And? That basically confirms what I wrote about leading on the ice not being the same as being the kind of leader who wears a C.

Again, if Malkin and Staal are on the same team, you really think Malkin gets the C over Staal? That's the relevant point, right? Who has better leadership abilities? It's not a question of someone having none but rather who has more.

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01-05-2011, 11:49 AM
  #72
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He's not lazy in the least. No clue where you pulled that from. If anything he tries too hard instead of relaxing and playing smart.

In any case Malkin keeps pace with Staal but with worse linemates. No thanks.
Sorry, it must be some other Malkin that's been ripped for being exactly that not only in the past, but earlier this year as well.

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01-05-2011, 11:50 AM
  #73
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Eric Staal as Captain and the face of the franchise or Evgeni Malkin as Captain and the face of the franchise.

Yeah Carolina doesn't touch this with a 10 foot pole.

Eric Staal >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Evgeni Malkin when it comes to marketing the game in Raleigh.

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01-05-2011, 11:52 AM
  #74
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And? That basically confirms what I wrote about leading on the ice not being the same as being the kind of leader who wears a C.
Uh, no. Those player quotes reinforce that true leadership is established on the ice, and Malkin delivered. There have been plenty of great NHL captains in that mold.

Believe it or not, locker room Miracle speeches aren't terribly prevalent at the NHL level.

Quote:
Again, if Malkin and Staal are on the same team, you really think Malkin gets the C over Staal? That's the relevant point, right? Who has better leadership abilities? It's not a question of someone having none but rather who has more.
I have no idea. That'd be nothing but conjecture.

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01-05-2011, 11:55 AM
  #75
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I think Pit should consider this. What is their biggest weakness forward depth. I think with staal on his wing crosby would be even more lethal. Thats assuming they think Jordan Staal can stay healthy

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