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2010-2011 Rangers Prospects Thread (Juniors, NCAA, International, Other) *Part 3*

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01-05-2011, 05:27 PM
  #76
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Fasth had to have been one of the 5 best players for the Swedes all tournament (that #29 kid looks awesome, as does Jarnkrok (sp?) the Atlanta draft pick (i forget his name) and the other Larsson)

Kreider was definitely one of the 4 best USA players, and id put Bourque in as #5. Id probably rank em:

1)Campbell
2)Kreider (debatable)
3)Bjugstad
4)Coyle
5)Bourque

Horak was meh for the most part...didnt really impress me all that much.

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01-05-2011, 05:33 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
Fasth had to have been one of the 5 best players for the Swedes all tournament (that #29 kid looks awesome, as does Jarnkrok (sp?) the Atlanta draft pick (i forget his name) and the other Larsson)

Kreider was definitely one of the 4 best USA players, and id put Bourque in as #5. Id probably rank em:

1)Campbell
2)Kreider (debatable)
3)Bjugstad
4)Coyle
5)Bourque

Horak was meh for the most part...didnt really impress me all that much.
Put Coyle at #3 and switch in Brown for Bjugstad (really? I thought he was pretty pedestrian) and you have my list. Coyle was good, but I thought Kreider was better nearly every game. The dude just needs to play with top talent and he will dominate.

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01-05-2011, 05:51 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by ColonialsHockey10 View Post
Put Coyle at #3 and switch in Brown for Bjugstad (really? I thought he was pretty pedestrian) and you have my list. Coyle was good, but I thought Kreider was better nearly every game. The dude just needs to play with top talent and he will dominate.
i loved what i saw from Bjugstad, the size, the speed, the stick handling, the defensive responsibility. He was always noticeable imho.

Brown was quite good as well.

Morin, and D'Amigo were big ole buckets o fail. LOVE the Zucker kid...gonna turn into a real good 4th line energy guy in the NHL.

RE: Kreider...i agree, i think hes the kinda guy who will play better as the competition (and skill level of his teammates) improve...you could tell the game almost seemed too slow for him out there, which is kinda crazy considering how fast it is. and he was probably the best passer on the entire team, which is crazy considering he also led the team in goals if im not mistaken.

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01-06-2011, 02:01 AM
  #79
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The Highlights of the 3rd Place Decider guys



And if somebody is interested, the Highlights of the Goldmedal-Game:


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01-06-2011, 02:36 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
Fasth had to have been one of the 5 best players for the Swedes all tournament (that #29 kid looks awesome, as does Jarnkrok (sp?) the Atlanta draft pick (i forget his name) and the other Larsson)

Kreider was definitely one of the 4 best USA players, and id put Bourque in as #5. Id probably rank em:

1)Campbell
2)Kreider (debatable)
3)Bjugstad
4)Coyle
5)Bourque

Horak was meh for the most part...didnt really impress me all that much.
Fasth, Jarnkrok and Klingberg were all definitely highly impressive. Klingberg kind of reminds me of Franzen in some ways.

I think Horak, it's tough to blame him. That team is so mediocre.

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01-06-2011, 05:51 AM
  #81
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After watching the highlights on the NHL Network of the USA-Sweden, it's apparent that Kreider is just deadly coming down the leftside and snapping that wrister from about 15 feet in. Both goals were in the same spot. The kid has so many natural talents.

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Old
01-06-2011, 06:14 AM
  #82
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Ola, in your opinion is Jesper a Jan Erixon type player going forward???
I only kind of saw Erixon late in his career, when he basically only lived on his smarts, and for the coming 10 years I don't see much of that player in Fasth.

Think of a Swedish Dustin Brown... Nah, I don't know. These modern kids are hard to compare with the current NHLers. In terms of skill, Fasth isn't really, now at least, close to being a 1st lineer in the NHL. In terms of raw ability, he is the type who projects as a 3rd lineer with upside.

But, as we have seen soooo many times, intangibles isn't a big part of the equation. The guys that makes it is the players who gets it done on the ice. Jamie Lundmark and Bobby Sangs had like the intangibles pinned down, but never really came close to becoming good NHLers. Ryan Callahan just steps on the ice and gets it done. Fasth -- from what I've seen so far -- shows all signs of being that type.

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01-06-2011, 06:21 AM
  #83
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Not sure what you are saying. Do you believe Fasth is better prospect than Kreider? They seem to be 2 different players. It's all about development right now.
I would not have the ballz to trade Fasth for Kreider.

If Fasth becomes a better player the Kreider after the fact, I would say that I had that hunch...

Nah, I should not get a head of myself. Kreider is a fine prospect. The thing is, a lot of things have raised the bar for Kreider in terms of expectations. You pick mid 1st-round -- you want a player. You can under no circumstances expect a 1st lineer. But you want a 2nd-3rd lineer. After seeing Kreider's raw abilitys -- I think I personally started to expect more then that from Kreider. Maybe hoping that he could become -- some sort of at least -- our "Zach Parise"/"Mike Richards". IN THAT SENSE, I have been dispointed when watching Kreider lately.

When I see Kreider these days, my hope is that he will become like a STEVE LARMER anno 2010. With Fasth, like I said you never know, but he is -- and should be -- behind Kreider on any prospect ranking. But he is a kid who have low/zero expectations on him, and who does a lot with what he have. Its easy to like kids like that.

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01-06-2011, 08:24 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by ColonialsHockey10 View Post
Put Coyle at #3 and switch in Brown for Bjugstad (really? I thought he was pretty pedestrian) and you have my list. Coyle was good, but I thought Kreider was better nearly every game. The dude just needs to play with top talent and he will dominate.
My top 5 as follows:

1 - Campbell
2 - Kreider
3 - Faulk (Easily the best dman, played very well underpressure cant believe no one has him, was far more noticeable than Bourque and Brown)
4 - Coyle
5 - Bourque (Edges out Dumuilon and Brown)

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01-06-2011, 08:29 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Ola View Post
I would not have the ballz to trade Fasth for Kreider.

If Fasth becomes a better player the Kreider after the fact, I would say that I had that hunch...

Nah, I should not get a head of myself. Kreider is a fine prospect. The thing is, a lot of things have raised the bar for Kreider in terms of expectations. You pick mid 1st-round -- you want a player. You can under no circumstances expect a 1st lineer. But you want a 2nd-3rd lineer. After seeing Kreider's raw abilitys -- I think I personally started to expect more then that from Kreider. Maybe hoping that he could become -- some sort of at least -- our "Zach Parise"/"Mike Richards". IN THAT SENSE, I have been dispointed when watching Kreider lately.

When I see Kreider these days, my hope is that he will become like a STEVE LARMER anno 2010. With Fasth, like I said you never know, but he is -- and should be -- behind Kreider on any prospect ranking. But he is a kid who have low/zero expectations on him, and who does a lot with what he have. Its easy to like kids like that.
I don't get the negativity on Kreider from you. He scored 10 goals in the two WJC tourneys, 3 goals in the four medal games he played. Don't know if he scored any goals in the semifinals last year. Kreider once paired with a creative , good skating centerman will thrive in the NHL. Worst case this kid will be a Bob Bourne or Bob Gainey type player. Best case he will score 40+ a few times in his career.

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01-06-2011, 09:19 AM
  #86
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Is any of these players in the WJC's eligible for next years WJC for us?

I'd love to see Kreider get one more chance for a gold. I don't know the age restrictions and whatnot for this tournament.

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01-06-2011, 09:19 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by doakacola View Post
I don't get the negativity on Kreider from you. He scored 10 goals in the two WJC tourneys, 3 goals in the four medal games he played. Don't know if he scored any goals in the semifinals last year. Kreider once paired with a creative , good skating centerman will thrive in the NHL. Worst case this kid will be a Bob Bourne or Bob Gainey type player. Best case he will score 40+ a few times in his career.
I don't think he's being negative at all on Krieder.

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01-06-2011, 09:22 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by NYRMatt View Post
Is any of these players in the WJC's eligible for next years WJC for us?

I'd love to see Kreider get one more chance for a gold. I don't know the age restrictions and whatnot for this tournament.
The age restriction is under 20, but I don't know the exact cut-off date.

Kreider will be too old next year, as will Bourque. In fact, Horak will be too old and Fasth I'm pretty sure will be too. Here's to hoping McIlrath has a big breakout soon so he can play for Canada.

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01-06-2011, 09:32 AM
  #89
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Bjugstad is not getting the praise he deserves and in comparison to Croyle its laughable. If I had seen this tournament before last year's draft I'd have Bjugstad as my 4th rated player with Johansen as my 3rd. At the time of the draft I thought Johansen was overrated (in fact I didn't even want him falling to us at #10) and I knew nothing about Bjustad.

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01-06-2011, 09:48 AM
  #90
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Watching the WJC tournament, Kreider plays a very similar game to Eric Cole on Carolina. Real good size, great wheels, and has a good shoot. I can see an NHL career for Kreider that is similar to Cole.

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01-06-2011, 09:50 AM
  #91
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Originally Posted by NYRMatt View Post
Is any of these players in the WJC's eligible for next years WJC for us?

I'd love to see Kreider get one more chance for a gold. I don't know the age restrictions and whatnot for this tournament.
No shot Kreider is there next year. Not only will he be too old. but he will be with the Rangers.

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Old
01-06-2011, 10:04 AM
  #92
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Originally Posted by MSG the place to be View Post
Bjugstad is not getting the praise he deserves and in comparison to Croyle its laughable. If I had seen this tournament before last year's draft I'd have Bjugstad as my 4th rated player with Johansen as my 3rd. At the time of the draft I thought Johansen was overrated (in fact I didn't even want him falling to us at #10) and I knew nothing about Bjustad.
Coyle was much better than Bjugstad. Bjugstad on several occasion failed to clear his zone yesterday and certainly didn't finish checks like he should have. Bjugstad to me was a huge disappointment against Canada.

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01-06-2011, 10:08 AM
  #93
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Originally Posted by msv957 View Post
Watching the WJC tournament, Kreider plays a very similar game to Eric Cole on Carolina. Real good size, great wheels, and has a good shoot. I can see an NHL career for Kreider that is similar to Cole.
I like Eric Cole a lot, however while they both may have similar top end speed (Krieder
a bit faster), Kreider is a far more fluid skater, allowing him to maintain better body control and thereby the ability to make plays at top speed. Kreider has IMO much better
hands than Cole. Its not a knock on Eric Cole a very good player.

Kreider has the speed of an elite level NHL forward and his passing and vision are better than what people give him credit for.

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01-06-2011, 10:28 AM
  #94
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Originally Posted by doakacola View Post
I like Eric Cole a lot, however while they both may have similar top end speed (Krieder
a bit faster), Kreider is a far more fluid skater, allowing him to maintain better body control and thereby the ability to make plays at top speed. Kreider has IMO much better
hands than Cole. Its not a knock on Eric Cole a very good player.

Kreider has the speed of an elite level NHL forward and his passing and vision are better than what people give him credit for.
I see Kreider somewhere between Amonte and Guerin as a player...he's a little more hard-nosed than Amonte, but, not as mean a Guerin, while being a little more skilled. That wrister from in close is scary-fast.

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01-06-2011, 11:08 AM
  #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doakacola View Post
I like Eric Cole a lot, however while they both may have similar top end speed (Krieder
a bit faster), Kreider is a far more fluid skater, allowing him to maintain better body control and thereby the ability to make plays at top speed. Kreider has IMO much better
hands than Cole. Its not a knock on Eric Cole a very good player.

Kreider has the speed of an elite level NHL forward and his passing and vision are better than what people give him credit for.
very good point. i like the comparison and think its spot on.

at one time, cole was one of the fastest skaters in the league. he played a power forward game. good along the wall and very good goal scorer. injuries really took a toll though on erik. the neck injury was really scary.

having watched erik alot as a youngster growing up 30 miles from me in oswego, and then having seen many of his games at clarkson, he does reming me a little bit of chris kreider. similar size and build and both can really skate.

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01-06-2011, 12:35 PM
  #96
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I see Kreider somewhere between Amonte and Guerin as a player...he's a little more hard-nosed than Amonte, but, not as mean a Guerin, while being a little more skilled. That wrister from in close is scary-fast.
i agree with this.

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01-06-2011, 12:54 PM
  #97
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I don't get the negativity on Kreider from you. He scored 10 goals in the two WJC tourneys, 3 goals in the four medal games he played. Don't know if he scored any goals in the semifinals last year. Kreider once paired with a creative , good skating centerman will thrive in the NHL. Worst case this kid will be a Bob Bourne or Bob Gainey type player. Best case he will score 40+ a few times in his career.
Its really only because he needs to get chances to produce, if he do not "get" those chances, he won't score in the WJC's or even college hockey -- as we have seen.

And when he "gets" those chances, its not like he is the second coming of Brett Hull.

I want to be as clear as possible I can about Kreider -- I am not "trashing" him. I am just afraid that he only will become a average NHLer. With guys like Horak and Fasth, who I often make positive posts about, I would be glad if they "only" became avg NHLer. And I only have hopes for him to become at best like a player in the Steve Larmer mold or something. He seems to be a great kid. His future can become very bright. No doubt. But thats the roof Id put.

Expectations are high on Kreider. He is a fantastic skater. He have solid size. He have a decent shot. He is a great athleet. But, he is miles behind the (other) stars at this level (the WJC's) in terms of smarts and creativity. Like compare him with say a Tarasenko in terms of creativity, its like comparing MZA's size with Staal's size. Its not on the same planet. And many seem to give him a pass for it because he is underdeveloped. Well there is a "cause" for it, what does that matter??? It almost seem like some people expect other players to give him a handicap because he has a reason for being underdeveloped... Underdeveloped hockeysense in terms of creativity is something you rarely/ever see someone develop later in their career. Do not get me wrong, but I rather bet on a Zherdev to learn to play defense then a Kreider to learn to play offense -- if I was looking for a top line player.

Now, I know most people do not expect Kreider to become a top line player. I do not think its a big deal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jas View Post
I see Kreider somewhere between Amonte and Guerin as a player...he's a little more hard-nosed than Amonte, but, not as mean a Guerin, while being a little more skilled. That wrister from in close is scary-fast.
I do not for example agree 100% with this. I think Kreider is a lot more Freddy Sjöström-like skilled then Billy Guerin-like skilled...


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01-06-2011, 01:28 PM
  #98
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Its really only because he needs to get chances to produce, if he do not "get" those chances, he won't score in the WJC's or even college hockey -- as we have seen.

And when he "gets" those chances, its not like he is the second coming of Brett Hull.

I want to be as clear as possible I can about Kreider -- I am not "trashing" him. I am just afraid that he only will become a average NHLer. With guys like Horak and Fasth, who I often make positive posts about, I would be glad if they "only" became avg NHLer.

Expectations are high on Kreider. He is a fantastic skater. He have solid size. He have a decent shot. He is a great athleet. But, he is miles behind the (other) stars at this level (the WJC's) in terms of smarts and creativity. Like compare him with say a Tarasenko in terms of creativity, its like comparing MZA's size with Staal's size. Its not on the same planet.
Good post. Kreider is a project that just needs to keep on developing. He probably can make the NHL next year but I think he just needs time to refine his game some more.

Just curious if you all would be happy if he develops into a a player like Dubinsky?? A solid 60 point or more NHL player. I will take it!

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01-06-2011, 01:52 PM
  #99
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I do not for example agree 100% with this. I think Kreider is a lot more Freddy Sjöström-like skilled then Billy Guerin-like skilled...
I really don't understand why Sjostrom's name keeps coming up in discussions/comparisons about Chris Kreider... The only attribute they have in common is skating.... What else is similar about the two players? Sjostrom has poor hands, an average shot at best, no net/slot presence, and doesn't finish plays....

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01-06-2011, 02:05 PM
  #100
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I really don't understand why Sjostrom's name keeps coming up in discussions/comparisons about Chris Kreider... The only attribute they have in common is skating.... What else is similar about the two players? Sjostrom has poor hands, an average shot at best, no net/slot presence, and doesn't finish plays....
Ola is the only poster I've seen draw comparisons between Kreider and Sjostrom. I cannot figure it out, either. Kreider's hands are so much faster and softer. He also shows a great deal of patience with his shot.

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