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Flyers waive Michael Leighton; cleared waivers, sent to Phantoms (AHL)

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01-05-2011, 05:03 PM
  #351
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Originally Posted by phillyfanatic View Post
LTIR only adds to the upper limit a team can spend to if the team is spending to the cap. So, before Leighton went to the minors we were increasing our final upper limit due to replacements for Walker and Laps LTIR. Now that we are under the cap those players salaries are no longer increasing our upper limit rather they are chewing away from our available of $413,417. Once we reach the upper limit then LTIR tolerance begins to add again. Let me know if this doesn't make sense
so wouldnt it be in our best interest to acquire a 1.4 or so million dollar cap hit player quickly and then make a second acquisition after walker gets back to take advantage of the ltir space

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01-05-2011, 05:56 PM
  #352
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Originally Posted by captainpaxil View Post
so wouldnt it be in our best interest to acquire a 1.4 or so million dollar cap hit player quickly and then make a second acquisition after walker gets back to take advantage of the ltir space
No, because Walker's cap hit comes back when he is healthy. That it what Holmgren did when Briere was out 2 years ago and led to us waiving Metro and Ossi, and trading Upshall

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01-05-2011, 06:06 PM
  #353
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If Leighton were to be traded, would he have to clear re-entry waivers with the new team as well?

If not, would it be possible to trade Leighton to someone for say a 5th round pick, and then trade a 4th round pick back for Leighton...in case Boosh or Bob got hurt?

I guess my question is can you trade around the waiver rules?

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01-05-2011, 06:07 PM
  #354
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Originally Posted by Hovercraft View Post
No, because Walker's cap hit comes back when he is healthy. That it what Holmgren did when Briere was out 2 years ago and led to us waiving Metro and Ossi, and trading Upshall
I believe Walker will be waived as well for at least this year. They will then acquire another depth dman making < half of what walkers makes.

Has it been established that if walker is waived neither him nor leighton can be called up for the playoff without being on recall waivers? Not sure walker would get claimed though, thats a tough call.

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01-05-2011, 06:10 PM
  #355
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Originally Posted by ugiswrong View Post
If Leighton were to be traded, would he have to clear re-entry waivers with the new team as well?

If not, would it be possible to trade Leighton to someone for say a 5th round pick, and then trade a 4th round pick back for Leighton...in case Boosh or Bob got hurt?

I guess my question is can you trade around the waiver rules?
He would need to clear waivers. So he is untradeable.

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01-05-2011, 06:40 PM
  #356
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ugiswrong View Post
If Leighton were to be traded, would he have to clear re-entry waivers with the new team as well?

If not, would it be possible to trade Leighton to someone for say a 5th round pick, and then trade a 4th round pick back for Leighton...in case Boosh or Bob got hurt?

I guess my question is can you trade around the waiver rules?
Forgetting about the re-entry having to occur... and ignoring the question of attempted circumvention... I believe it falls under the 'Clarke Rule' where you cannot trade for a player you traded for the year -- not sure if it is a full calendar year and goes into next season, I forget that aspect -- It all stems from when Clarkie tried to stash Keith Acton, IIRC, from an expansion draft by trading him to a protecting team and then trading for him after the draft was over... He got busted on it and the rule was created... He may have gotten away with it though, or he may have been fined or penalized in some other way, memory escapes me at this point.

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01-05-2011, 07:24 PM
  #357
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Originally Posted by Sawdalite View Post
Forgetting about the re-entry having to occur... and ignoring the question of attempted circumvention... I believe it falls under the 'Clarke Rule' where you cannot trade for a player you traded for the year -- not sure if it is a full calendar year and goes into next season, I forget that aspect -- It all stems from when Clarkie tried to stash Keith Acton, IIRC, from an expansion draft by trading him to a protecting team and then trading for him after the draft was over... He got busted on it and the rule was created... He may have gotten away with it though, or he may have been fined or penalized in some other way, memory escapes me at this point.
It was Acton and another player (a goalie?) and he stashed them in Edmonton I think? I remember a cartoon in a hockey mag with both players under the Edmonton GM's desk with their feet sticking out wearing their Flyers gear and it saying something like "nothing here." I think Clarke got away with it..no fines etc.

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01-05-2011, 07:52 PM
  #358
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Im not sure how that rule works but Milan Jurcina was traded to the Blue Jackets last year from the Capitals but was then re acquired at the trade deadline.

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01-05-2011, 07:52 PM
  #359
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Originally Posted by DrDoom View Post
It was Acton and another player (a goalie?) and he stashed them in Edmonton I think? I remember a cartoon in a hockey mag with both players under the Edmonton GM's desk with their feet sticking out wearing their Flyers gear and it saying something like "nothing here." I think Clarke got away with it..no fines etc.
haha... Yeah, I remember another player involved but I'll have to look up the name... I know the NHL was pissed and made sure no one ever pulled that stuff again with the new rule.

Love him or hate him... and I loved him... Clarkie was a hoot with the crap he pulled off, or tried to pull off. I imagine it was Sather in GM that was his partner in that particular scam.

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01-05-2011, 08:00 PM
  #360
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It was Winnipeg and Peeteres was the goalie, per Hockey Draft Central:

"The Phantom Trade: Acton was traded by Philadelphia with Pete Peeters to Winnipeg in exchange for future considerations on Sept. 28, 1989. Five days later, on Oct. 3, 1989, Winnipeg returned Acton and Peeters to Philadelphia in exchange for Toronto's 1991 fifth-round pick (Juha Ylonen) and an agreement to cancel the future considerations owed from a July 21, 1989, trade in which Winnipeg sent Shawn Cronin to Philadelphia. The Acton-Peeters deal was made to protect Philadelphia from losing either player in the 1989 NHL Waiver Draft. Neither Acton nor Peeters ever reported to Winnipeg during the five days between the two trades because Winnipeg general manager Mike Smith told them it wasn't necessary. At the time of the second trade, Winnipeg was given the option to take a 1990 sixth-round pick or 1991 fifth-round pick. The controversial trade prompted an investigation by the NHL, but Flyers general manager Bob Clarke argued that there was no prearranged deal in place. The trade was allowed to stand because the NHL was unable to prove that the first trade had included any plans for the second trade. However, both Philadelphia and Winnipeg were fined $10,000 for breaking a league rule that prevents teams from loaning players."


They didn't mention the Clarke Rule... but I'm certain it was created shortly thereafter.

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01-05-2011, 09:16 PM
  #361
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The Flyers once traded a 9th round pick Mark Janssens from Chicago, and then like 3 weeks waived later waived him, and Chicago got him back. This was during the summer, mind you.

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01-05-2011, 09:18 PM
  #362
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Originally Posted by Hovercraft View Post
No, because Walker's cap hit comes back when he is healthy. That it what Holmgren did when Briere was out 2 years ago and led to us waiving Metro and Ossi, and trading Upshall
but only because it was the intention to play briere. if walker is gonna skate someone has to go anyway right?

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01-05-2011, 09:29 PM
  #363
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Originally Posted by captainpaxil View Post
but only because it was the intention to play briere. if walker is gonna skate someone has to go anyway right?
When Walker is deemed healthy I believe he must come off... The Flyers have to have Cap room to take him off... and I believe that would be the case even if he was to then be waived -- don't hold me to that though... just reasoning it out -- Homer IMO will keep the Cap space free until the Trade Deadline and may waive just before then, so he can grab a player for the Stretch Run and Postseason.

When he had Rathje he couldn't do anything worthwhile... He was pissed at the Town Hall Meeting when I brought Rathje's name up in the question. His eyes got beady and his mouth puckered up and he went into a long explanation of the way it works and how his hands were tied... He was not happy with Rathje, although he didn't make it personal with him.

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01-05-2011, 09:59 PM
  #364
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Originally Posted by Sawdalite View Post
When Walker is deemed healthy I believe he must come off... The Flyers have to have Cap room to take him off... and I believe that would be the case even if he was to then be waived -- don't hold me to that though... just reasoning it out -- Homer IMO will keep the Cap space free until the Trade Deadline and may waive just before then, so he can grab a player for the Stretch Run and Postseason.
i think that wouldnt be as big a deal if we had anybody on the roster other than bob who could be sent up or down without having to clear waivers. its my understanding hes our only waiver exempt player

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sawdalite View Post
When he had Rathje he couldn't do anything worthwhile... He was pissed at the Town Hall Meeting when I brought Rathje's name up in the question. His eyes got beady and his mouth puckered up and he went into a long explanation of the way it works and how his hands were tied... He was not happy with Rathje, although he didn't make it personal with him.
lapi would actually be the new rathje then but how mad can u get at a guy who took 2 pucks to the face for your team.

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01-05-2011, 10:31 PM
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Originally Posted by captainpaxil View Post
i think that wouldnt be as big a deal if we had anybody on the roster other than bob who could be sent up or down without having to clear waivers. its my understanding hes our only waiver exempt player



lapi would actually be the new rathje then but how mad can u get at a guy who took 2 pucks to the face for your team.
Isn't Nodl non-waiver? He was with the Phantoms out of Camp and then was promoted as I remember... And there is the option of Upshalling Carcillo if needed.


Lappy can be the Rathje for this year and next but only a Rathje-Lite at $1.167M rather than Rathje's $3M.

When able to go under the Cap they can pull the LTIR off of that status and start banking... They are now under the Cap with Leighton gone. Actually, I don't think they even have to take them off LTIR anyway... they just don't drain money because they are not exempting any cash. They count against the Cap but the reminder ($413K) can now be banked and start adding up. Even when Walker is off and Lappy is out, they are still okay as long as they don't have any more injuries that they have to bring a replacement in for.

They may not be in an ideal situation, but they are not as bad as they could be with Leights down.

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01-05-2011, 11:06 PM
  #366
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Does it mean we have money to make a move for Tomas Vokoun?

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01-05-2011, 11:24 PM
  #367
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Here's another attempt at trying to decipher the salary cap implications:

http://delcotimes.com/articles/2011/...8886294155.txt

Quote:
VOORHEES, N.J. - Although he wouldn't say it when asked, there was a financial reason behind Paul Holmgren waiving goalie Michael Leighton Monday. Holmgren needed to bank enough cap space before the trade deadline - just in case the Flyers need it.

Understanding the salary cap is about as easy as translating attic Greek. The Flyers failed that course several times, but finally seem to be figuring it out.

The biggest problem that most would-be capologists run into is that they base salary cap calculations on a full season analysis. However, the NHL salary cap is measured on a daily basis, and teams need to be compliant during the entire season.

After dispatching Leighton to the Phantoms, the Flyers have made their way under the daily cap and as such are banking space each day ($4,262 a day to be exact).

They have been operating above the cap all season because of injuries to Leighton, Matt Walker and Ian Laperriere have made them use their long-term injury allowance, so the Flyers are above the cap on their season-to-date, which was 92 days through Wednesday.

There are still 95 days remaining in the season, and at the current rate, barring no more long-term injuries, the Flyers will officially be under the cap for the season on Feb. 11.

With Laperriere and Walker on LTIR, the Flyers are also afforded a maximum of $15,312 in daily LTIR forgiveness.

By the time the trade deadline arrives, the Flyers will have banked enough cap room plus the allotted LTIR space for a total of approximately $850,000 or a full season cap hit of about $3.75 million.

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01-05-2011, 11:28 PM
  #368
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sawdalite View Post
It was Winnipeg and Peeteres was the goalie, per Hockey Draft Central:

"The Phantom Trade: Acton was traded by Philadelphia with Pete Peeters to Winnipeg in exchange for future considerations on Sept. 28, 1989. Five days later, on Oct. 3, 1989, Winnipeg returned Acton and Peeters to Philadelphia in exchange for Toronto's 1991 fifth-round pick (Juha Ylonen) and an agreement to cancel the future considerations owed from a July 21, 1989, trade in which Winnipeg sent Shawn Cronin to Philadelphia. The Acton-Peeters deal was made to protect Philadelphia from losing either player in the 1989 NHL Waiver Draft. Neither Acton nor Peeters ever reported to Winnipeg during the five days between the two trades because Winnipeg general manager Mike Smith told them it wasn't necessary. At the time of the second trade, Winnipeg was given the option to take a 1990 sixth-round pick or 1991 fifth-round pick. The controversial trade prompted an investigation by the NHL, but Flyers general manager Bob Clarke argued that there was no prearranged deal in place. The trade was allowed to stand because the NHL was unable to prove that the first trade had included any plans for the second trade. However, both Philadelphia and Winnipeg were fined $10,000 for breaking a league rule that prevents teams from loaning players."


They didn't mention the Clarke Rule... but I'm certain it was created shortly thereafter.
This was Ziegler's quote at the time:

Quote:
''The absence of a legally binding agreement to retrade does not mean there was no loan of the players. All legal niceties aside, the bottom line is that immediately prior to the waiver draft, the players belonged to Philadelphia and immediately after the draft, they belonged to Philadelphia. In the interim, they were protected from the draft. It is clear to me this was a loan of players.''

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01-05-2011, 11:36 PM
  #369
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$4,262 cap space at the dead line? Hell, we can get Tomas Vokoun and some power forward like Cole, maybe?

Thats with out trading Carle

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01-05-2011, 11:39 PM
  #370
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$4,262 cap space at the dead line? Hell, we can get Tomas Vokoun and some power forward like Cole, maybe?

Thats with out trading Carle
No... 3.75M, Vokoun is like 5+M. You could potentially get him with some other cap space going the other direction.

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01-05-2011, 11:47 PM
  #371
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No... 3.75M, Vokoun is like 5+M. You could potentially get him with some other cap space going the other direction.
Pronger Carle
Timonen Coburn
Mezs O'Donnell

Vokoun
Boucher

Is this great or what? I do not know, I believe. It would be nice if Vokoun waived his NTC just to come here. Just like Gagne did with Tampa. So we can get him cheap

He is at %.926 with freaking Florida. What if he plays for one of the best if not the best shot blocking team in the NHL and that type of D where Carle or Mesz is on 3rd paring. Think about it.


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01-05-2011, 11:58 PM
  #372
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Yeah, who you sending back though?

I also don't think we have much that FLA would want.

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01-06-2011, 12:11 AM
  #373
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Yeah, who you sending back though?

I also don't think we have much that FLA would want.
We have 1st, we have Carcillo (Florida could use him), Eriksson, Marshall, even Nodl. We can offer something nice.

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01-06-2011, 12:14 AM
  #374
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We have 1st, we have Carcillo (Florida could use him), Eriksson, Marshall, even Nodl. We can offer something nice.
We need to start using our 1sts for our own long-term benefit... the cupboard is bare.

And you're offering quantity over quality there. I would wager someone will come in with a bit more top-heavy offer for Vokoun come deadline time.

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01-06-2011, 12:33 AM
  #375
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We need to start using our 1sts for our own long-term benefit... the cupboard is bare.

And you're offering quantity over quality there. I would wager someone will come in with a bit more top-heavy offer for Vokoun come deadline time.
We may not have the best package but our offer could be very reasonable. 3 teams may offer more or have a lot of interest. SJ, Hawks and Caps. Florida would not deal with Caps and Tomas may not want to play in WC.

If we do nto win SC, who gives a **** about 1st round pick? Got to win something while Prongs and Timonen still got it.

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