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Should Nashville Pursue Iginla?

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01-05-2011, 06:28 PM
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David Singleton
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Should Nashville Pursue Iginla?

My latest missive asks the question of whether Nashville should try and obtain Jarome Iginla.

The deal centers around two top prospects, two solid draft picks, potentially the rights to Radulov (depending upon the draft picks) and a couple of filler guys (if desired).

Can it be done? Should it be done?

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01-05-2011, 06:51 PM
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Your proposal states that the Flames cupboard is bare, which may be true. So we get Igninla but empty our cupboard to fill the Flames. Not sure if that's the smart thing to do. What happens when his contract is up in a couple of years and decides he likes Canada better? Your proposal is giving up to much of the our cupboard for short term fix IMHO.

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01-05-2011, 06:57 PM
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David Singleton
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Originally Posted by jlsg View Post
Your proposal states that the Flames cupboard is bare, which may be true. So we get Igninla but empty our cupboard to fill the Flames. Not sure if that's the smart thing to do. What happens when his contract is up in a couple of years and decides he likes Canada better? Your proposal is giving up to much of the our cupboard for short term fix IMHO.
I don't think so Jay (obviously ).

Two top prospects, without double dipping in a position from:

Ellis, Blum, Josi, Beck, Klasen, Watson, and Pickard

That stills leaves us crazy deep on the blueline, two solid goaltenders in Dekanich and Lindback and several good young forwards (including Wilson, Hornqvist and potentially O'Reilly).

By the time that Iginla leaves (if that happens, not necessarily so if the team is successful and he'd only be 35 at contract end), Nashville has plenty of opportunity to draft replacements.

Small price to pay to me.

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01-05-2011, 07:00 PM
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I'll also add that if Poile ever plans to make a splash by trading some of these prospects, then the time may not ever be better to trade Ellis.

Now, if the Flames would prefer Blum, Josi, or even Franson, I'd be fine with that too (provided their other "pick" not be another defenseman).

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01-05-2011, 07:21 PM
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If we had stayed healthy and weren't continuing to lose guys left and right...I had the thought early this season that it might be the perfect time to make such a move. Yes, he'd be a rental...yes it would cost, but I think we had the pieces that a player of Iginla's caliber...both as a person and a player...could be enough to push us over the edge.

Instead, we're clamoring for Chris Mueller to get a shot in a top six role and wondering if Lombardi, O'Reilly or Sullivan will even play again this season...so...I think the goal is to simply make the playoffs(sound familiar) and if we do so miraculously...go from there...but don't "empty the cupboard" for someone like Iginla when he could very well be playing with Goc and Ward.

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01-05-2011, 07:56 PM
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Iginla would be a gread addition, but, it would probably come at too great a cost. Pickard isn't going to get any takers on the trade market with his play over the past two seasons. The frontline depth is far from stellar ... mostly longshots at top 6 and a lot of 2nd/3rd line type guys. Our most attractive trade material is on the blueline and it would probably take two of Ellis/Josi/Blum plus a pick(s) to make this deal happen.

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01-05-2011, 07:57 PM
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Originally Posted by David Singleton View Post
I don't think so Jay (obviously ).

Two top prospects, without double dipping in a position from:

Ellis, Blum, Josi, Beck, Klasen, Watson, and Pickard

That stills leaves us crazy deep on the blueline, two solid goaltenders in Dekanich and Lindback and several good young forwards (including Wilson, Hornqvist and potentially O'Reilly).

By the time that Iginla leaves (if that happens, not necessarily so if the team is successful and he'd only be 35 at contract end), Nashville has plenty of opportunity to draft replacements.

Small price to pay to me.
You're reaching a little on Pickard, Watson and from what we've seen Klasen. Based on the odds only 2 or 3 of those guys will "make it" in the NHL. So you give them up and we're left with what we currently have, a team of 3rd line players. If you look at the guys we have here now that have come through the system, they represent a small perc of all the players that played in Milwaukee. So it ends up being a pretty big price to pay.

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01-05-2011, 08:32 PM
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Originally Posted by jlsg View Post
You're reaching a little on Pickard, Watson and from what we've seen Klasen. Based on the odds only 2 or 3 of those guys will "make it" in the NHL. So you give them up and we're left with what we currently have, a team of 3rd line players. If you look at the guys we have here now that have come through the system, they represent a small perc of all the players that played in Milwaukee. So it ends up being a pretty big price to pay.
I'm reaching on Watson, most definitely. Of course, he was a first round pick from last season.

I don't think I'm reaching at all with Ellis, Josi, Blum.

Don't think I'm reaching with Klasen. I've really liked what I've seen from him to this point.

Based on Nashville's odds with defenseman, I'd say Ellis, Josi and Blum are all pretty safe bets.

Pickard's a definite reach, particularly with his down year. But does that completely ruin his value? I concede it might. I guessed that he might be desirable for Calgary in the event that want a goalie or two to potentially replace Kipursoff.

There are really two ways to approach the question.

First, is it fair value? That's debatable, but I believe it's at least close.

Then, will the two prospects chosen by Calgary "empty Nashville's cupboard"? I think the clear answer here is definitely not when one looks at the prospects this team has in juniors, the AHL and playing in the NHL now (including young players like Wilson, O'Reilly, Kostitsyn and Hornqvist).

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01-05-2011, 09:33 PM
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I say trading for Iginla is a good idea, but only if it doesnt involve Ellis and we get another offensive player as well. I have no problem with Iginla on a line with Goc, but not so much Ward.

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01-05-2011, 09:58 PM
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Originally Posted by MattPreds37 View Post
I say trading for Iginla is a good idea, but only if it doesnt involve Ellis and we get another offensive player as well. I have no problem with Iginla on a line with Goc, but not so much Ward.
Firstly, Joel Ward has to go to make it work (for this year) financially.

Ellis is a great prospect for sure. Is he that much greater than Blum and/or Josi? Maybe, maybe not.

I think all three will be very good NHL players.

For what Iginla would bring, I'd include Ellis if Calgary so desired. If Calgary preferred one of Blum or Josi, that would be fine too.

I don't think this team needs another offensive player, at least when everyone's healthy.

Let's assume the trade goes forward with only Ward and Smithson leaving the roster. Let's also assume that Erat and Sullivan return relatively soon, while O'Reilly and Lombardi do not.

I'd probably construct these lines:

Kostitsyn-Legwand-Iginla
Erat-Goc-Svatos
Dumont/Klasen-Wilson-Sullivan
Spaling-Meuller/Callup-Tootoo/Dumont

I don't like moving Wilson to center if the organization doesn't think that's where he will ultimately play, but they may have no choice.

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01-05-2011, 10:50 PM
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I'm not seeing how Iginla is able to fit into our budget this year...

Projected payroll: $50,649,764
Cap midpoint: $51,400,000
Cap space: $750,236

Ward's cap hit: -$310,880
Smithson's hit: -$158,031
Iginla's hit: $1,450,777

New projected payroll: $51,631,630
$231,630 over the cap midpoint.

This doesn't even include bonuses (if any) or additional callups.

I'm more worried about the financial aspect of this move as opposed to the pieces given up. We have plenty of prospects to trade away IMO. Also, trading away our shutdown line could give us headaches for this year.

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01-05-2011, 11:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paranoid Android View Post
I'm not seeing how Iginla is able to fit into our budget this year...

Projected payroll: $50,649,764
Cap midpoint: $51,400,000
Cap space: $750,236

Ward's cap hit: -$310,880
Smithson's hit: -$158,031
Iginla's hit: $1,450,777

New projected payroll: $51,631,630
$231,630 over the cap midpoint.

This doesn't even include bonuses (if any) or additional callups.

I'm more worried about the financial aspect of this move as opposed to the pieces given up. We have plenty of prospects to trade away IMO. Also, trading away our shutdown line could give us headaches for this year.
Send down Klasen and Mueller and make the trade at the deadline. That puts the team at 51.8mil with all bonuses included. Spaling isn't going to qualify for all NHL bonuses. It doesn't look like Wilson will either. Those numbers then come off of the cap hit and we're back below the midpoint.

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01-05-2011, 11:06 PM
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[QUOTE=David Singleton;30005093]Firstly, Joel Ward has to go to make it work (for this year) financially.

Ellis is a great prospect for sure. Is he that much greater than Blum and/or Josi? Maybe, maybe not.

I think all three will be very good NHL players.

For what Iginla would bring, I'd include Ellis if Calgary so desired. If Calgary preferred one of Blum or Josi, that would be fine too.

I don't think this team needs another offensive player, at least when everyone's healthy.

Let's assume the trade goes forward with only Ward and Smithson leaving the roster. Let's also assume that Erat and Sullivan return relatively soon, while O'Reilly and Lombardi do not.

I'd probably construct these lines:

Kostitsyn-Legwand-Iginla
Erat-Goc-Svatos
Dumont/Klasen-Wilson-Sullivan
Spaling-Meuller/Callup-Tootoo/Dumont

I don't like moving Wilson to center if the organization doesn't think that's where he will ultimately play, but they may not.

I think we need another center even based on your line ups. Tootoo is also not with the team for a length of time. As for Paranoid, I believe that Cap midpoint will be raised for next year as for the couple hundred thousand dollars over, its not going to kill us to spend the money.

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01-05-2011, 11:13 PM
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I've gotten a couple of chances to see Josi and Blum play this season. Both are quality AHL players at this point but need more seasoning. As a pairing, they looked good with Blum much more willing to play the dirty, down low game. Both see the ice well and can handle and play the puck. I'm still not sure that there fully ready for the NHL yet.

I'll reassess them in a couple of weeks when I get to see them again.

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01-05-2011, 11:21 PM
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Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post
Send down Klasen and Mueller and make the trade at the deadline. That puts the team at 51.8mil with all bonuses included. Spaling isn't going to qualify for all NHL bonuses. It doesn't look like Wilson will either. Those numbers then come off of the cap hit and we're back below the midpoint.
Right. Sulzer has to go somewhere too, even if it's to Milwaukee. If necessary bonuses can be deferred as well.

It's tougher budget-wise on this season than the following years. Timing is everything.

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01-05-2011, 11:25 PM
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Right. Sulzer has to go somewhere too, even if it's to Milwaukee. If necessary bonuses can be deferred as well.

It's tougher budget-wise on this season than the following years. Timing is everything.
It's the long term costs that concern me more than those this season.

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01-06-2011, 01:04 AM
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Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post
Send down Klasen and Mueller and make the trade at the deadline. That puts the team at 51.8mil with all bonuses included. Spaling isn't going to qualify for all NHL bonuses. It doesn't look like Wilson will either. Those numbers then come off of the cap hit and we're back below the midpoint.
It's still way too close for comfort IMO. If we get more injuries we'd be in serious trouble. We may not even see ORLY, Lombardi, Tootoo, and Sullivan for the rest of the year. Trade away Ward and we have to call one of them back up if Sully isn't ready.

Not to mention we would trade away our top PKer and faceoff man with no room in the budget for a decent replacement. I know there are always options such as trades and waivers, but it doesn't seem to be worth it for a 33 year old winger who has obviously slowed down in recent years.

Of course all this speculation is worthless without knowing what our true internal cap is. We could be at/past it already. I think any deadline deals we make will be from the bargain bin. This isn't the year to go all in. Also, the additional years on Iggy's contract scares me. $7M for a 35 year old power forward?

There are just too many things that can go wrong. It's not worth it. Not to mention the steep price it would cost to acquire him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MattPreds37 View Post
As for Paranoid, I believe that Cap midpoint will be raised for next year as for the couple hundred thousand dollars over, its not going to kill us to spend the money.
I'm only referring to this current season. And yes, even $1 over could kill us because we need to quality for full revenue sharing in order to stay afloat. (Though, I could be wrong about the importance of revenue sharing, but I see no reason why we wouldn't need it.)

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01-06-2011, 09:00 AM
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It's still way too close for comfort IMO. If we get more injuries we'd be in serious trouble. We may not even see ORLY, Lombardi, Tootoo, and Sullivan for the rest of the year. Trade away Ward and we have to call one of them back up if Sully isn't ready.

Not to mention we would trade away our top PKer and faceoff man with no room in the budget for a decent replacement. I know there are always options such as trades and waivers, but it doesn't seem to be worth it for a 33 year old winger who has obviously slowed down in recent years.

Of course all this speculation is worthless without knowing what our true internal cap is. We could be at/past it already. I think any deadline deals we make will be from the bargain bin. This isn't the year to go all in. Also, the additional years on Iggy's contract scares me. $7M for a 35 year old power forward?

There are just too many things that can go wrong. It's not worth it. Not to mention the steep price it would cost to acquire him.



I'm only referring to this current season. And yes, even $1 over could kill us because we need to quality for full revenue sharing in order to stay afloat. (Though, I could be wrong about the importance of revenue sharing, but I see no reason why we wouldn't need it.)
I never said to move Spaling, Ward, or Wilson. I said that it doesn't appear that Wilson or Spaling (Klasen or Lindback for the matter) are going to qualify for their potential bonuses. That is $1.3mil in cap hit we gain back unless the kids suddenly explode in the next few weeks.

From the deadline through the end of the season, Iginla would be about a $1.5mil hit for us. Short term, it's doable. Longterm it gets costly in both his salary and the players we would have to give up.

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01-06-2011, 09:50 AM
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If we could hold on to Ellis and bring in Iginla, then definitely do it.

If Calgary must have Ellis, then it would depend on what else they were asking for.

But the opportunity to add a player like Jarome Iginla doesn't come around very often, People are talking about what happens if we have more depth injuries? Really? Adding Iginla increases our depth and decreases our dependency on that depth. It means that our top 6 wingers are Iginla, Kostitsyn, Wilson, Hornqvist, Erat and Svatos, then if Sully makes it back this season we are absolutely loaded down the wings and one of these exceptionally talented players would be on the 4th line just out of lack of room... The team who ends up with the single best player in the trade is the winner of the trade 99% of the time, bring in the talent and then worry about putting the lines together later.

O'Reilly is the key, if he comes back in Feb, we're good. If not then I think the move has to be for a center.

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01-06-2011, 09:58 AM
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If we could hold on to Ellis and bring in Iginla, then definitely do it.

If Calgary must have Ellis, then it would depend on what else they were asking for.

But the opportunity to add a player like Jarome Iginla doesn't come around very often, People are talking about what happens if we have more depth injuries? Really? Adding Iginla increases our depth and decreases our dependency on that depth. It means that our top 6 wingers are Iginla, Kostitsyn, Wilson, Hornqvist, Erat and Svatos, then if Sully makes it back this season we are absolutely loaded down the wings and one of these exceptionally talented players would be on the 4th line just out of lack of room... The team who ends up with the single best player in the trade is the winner of the trade 99% of the time, bring in the talent and then worry about putting the lines together later.

O'Reilly is the key, if he comes back in Feb, we're good. If not then I think the move has to be for a center.
That concerns me too. As I said above, I could see the Predators eventually deciding on moving Wilson back to center just out of necessity, unless they do bring in another center.

For those that think I'm giving up too many assets for the trade, can be brought in for less?

Does he fit into the style, culture, etc. of Nashville?

Is his $7 million salary the next two seasons an extremely significant concern for others?

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01-06-2011, 10:40 AM
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Jarome is one of my binkies and I can not objectively look at this. I would make a deal for him IF he's the replacement for Sullivan.

Financially, it's cutting it too close. With all the injuries to the team the Nashville Predators are too close on the mid point. When making a deal like this you have to ask how you are going to make it work in the short term and the long term.

As of now, there is 3.5 million dollars left on Igilna's deal this year and it would be better if you could grab him RIGHT at the trade deadline to minimize the financial hit.

At 7 million a year he would be a big contract with Weber and Suter to be signed. But as I have said before the rumored 3 million dollar bump in rev. sharing would pay for the Weber raise. Sully's contract would pay for half of Iglina's contract and trading Ward would pay for another million of that for a total of 5.25 million. Where do you get the other 1.75 million?

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01-06-2011, 11:02 AM
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At 7 million a year he would be a big contract with Weber and Suter to be signed. But as I have said before the rumored 3 million dollar bump in rev. sharing would pay for the Weber raise. Sully's contract would pay for half of Iglina's contract and trading Ward would pay for another million of that for a total of 5.25 million. Where do you get the other 1.75 million?
Ward is an expiring contract, so there's no need to trade him.

The whole point of Sullivan's possible departure should be for the team to get younger. Substantially younger. I would rather throw $6M at Semin or $4M at Fleischmann on a long-term contract than put down $7M a year on an aging Iginla.

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01-06-2011, 11:09 AM
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That concerns me too. As I said above, I could see the Predators eventually deciding on moving Wilson back to center just out of necessity, unless they do bring in another center.

For those that think I'm giving up too many assets for the trade, can be brought in for less?

Does he fit into the style, culture, etc. of Nashville?

Is his $7 million salary the next two seasons an extremely significant concern for others?
Dead on fit for culture and style, I have thought for a while he would be a fantastic pickup for us.
Just a matter of costs, both in return and how it fits the salary cap. The trade Eklund threw out involving Malkin seemed to steep to me, but I just don't know how high Calgary would need us to go. I would prefer only one of Josi or Blum, plus a forward prospect, plus picks, and maybe someone from the current lineup (Ward?) to alleviate a little salary.

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01-06-2011, 11:20 AM
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Ward is an expiring contract, so there's no need to trade him.

The whole point of Sullivan's possible departure should be for the team to get younger. Substantially younger. I would rather throw $6M at Semin or $4M at Fleischmann on a long-term contract than put down $7M a year on an aging Iginla.
I'm with you on this. I like Iginla, but he's getting up there for a hockey player. Especially one that plays such a physical game. I'd rather spend the money elsewhere.

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01-06-2011, 11:40 AM
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I agree with a lot of the points that everyone is making, but Semin is not signing the Nashville on the open Market, trading for Iginla means little more than parting ways with Sullivan in the off season, which is likely to happen anyways.

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