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Old
01-06-2011, 12:58 PM
  #351
IrishSniper87
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Originally Posted by Hovercraft View Post
Cap geek has us at 413,000$ in cap space + 1,448,000 in LTIR cap space. I don't know where you are getting the 3 + mil figures from, but they are wrong. Once Walker is back, we will have pretty much no cap space again unless he is waived or doesn't get healthy
Bonuses

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Originally Posted by Hovercraft View Post
Nodl and O'D have bonuses too
good to know, thanks

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Originally Posted by Valhoun View Post
The team is under the cap even with Walker's salary. Once he is healthy we may need to clear up a roster spot, but we won't have to clear cap space. I don't know why people are thinking that we will.

You can't bank cap space and be using LTIR at the same time. The mere fact that we are banking 4K a day means that we are taking Walker's cap hit without issue.
LTIR hurts the cap actually, people don't realize that. The salary is "replaceable", but the hit is there in full if you are not spending up to the cap.

For example, if you calculated the hits of all our roster players and we were $3mill under, but with Walker and Lappy on LTIR, we are really only banking the difference, or the daily equivalent of 200k per day.

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01-06-2011, 01:27 PM
  #352
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hovercraft View Post
Cap geek has us at 413,000$ in cap space + 1,448,000 in LTIR cap space. I don't know where you are getting the 3 + mil figures from, but they are wrong. Once Walker is back, we will have pretty much no cap space again unless he is waived or doesn't get healthy
I posted yesterday a tweet from CapGeek giving that number (higher actually). They are usually correct about stuff like this. Their number was actually $4.5...here's what they said:

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If the #nhl #flyers waited until the trade deadline, they could add a full-season cap hit of ~$4.5m http://*******/hsbKjB
The reason it is so confusing to me is that CapGeek is saying things like that, and they are usually correct, but other places, like Broad Street Hockey, are saying that anyone saying we have close to that much is an idiot.

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Nodl and O'D have bonuses too
From what I understand, a lot of the bonuses aren't likely to be met. Not sure exactly what they are or where I read it (maybe Twitter?), but I read somewhere that most of the bonuses won't be met. Not too reliable, I know, but I did read it somewhere.

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01-06-2011, 02:10 PM
  #353
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
I posted yesterday a tweet from CapGeek giving that number (higher actually). They are usually correct about stuff like this. Their number was actually $4.5...here's what they said:



The reason it is so confusing to me is that CapGeek is saying things like that, and they are usually correct, but other places, like Broad Street Hockey, are saying that anyone saying we have close to that much is an idiot.



From what I understand, a lot of the bonuses aren't likely to be met. Not sure exactly what they are or where I read it (maybe Twitter?), but I read somewhere that most of the bonuses won't be met. Not too reliable, I know, but I did read it somewhere.
This is correct, most bonuses are not met, which is why Toews and Kane winning the cup hurt Chicago, because they got awarded bonuses in excess of $1mill that got added to the cap for THIS season. Bonuses Chicago never expected to be met.

LTIR keeps the Flyers from banking too much, so I wouldnt worry about capgeeks numbers. Capgeek is assuming a lot of things in that $4.5 mill number (Lappy and Walker out for year, Pronger out for a bit longer, bonuses not being met, us running with 21 or 22 players instead of 23). Just know that the Flyers have some wiggle room, but won't be huge players at the deadline. Perhaps flip Zherdev for a guy with a slightly higher salary or something. The could easily take $1.5 extra in a player swap. Perhaps more if Walker and Lappy are def done for the year.

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01-06-2011, 09:36 PM
  #354
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IrishSniper87 View Post
This is correct, most bonuses are not met, which is why Toews and Kane winning the cup hurt Chicago, because they got awarded bonuses in excess of $1mill that got added to the cap for THIS season. Bonuses Chicago never expected to be met.

LTIR keeps the Flyers from banking too much, so I wouldnt worry about capgeeks numbers. Capgeek is assuming a lot of things in that $4.5 mill number (Lappy and Walker out for year, Pronger out for a bit longer, bonuses not being met, us running with 21 or 22 players instead of 23). Just know that the Flyers have some wiggle room, but won't be huge players at the deadline. Perhaps flip Zherdev for a guy with a slightly higher salary or something. The could easily take $1.5 extra in a player swap. Perhaps more if Walker and Lappy are def done for the year.
Pronger is not on LTIR, so he could come back tomorrow and the estimate would not be affected.

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01-06-2011, 10:36 PM
  #355
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IrishSniper87 View Post
This is correct, most bonuses are not met, which is why Toews and Kane winning the cup hurt Chicago, because they got awarded bonuses in excess of $1mill that got added to the cap for THIS season. Bonuses Chicago never expected to be met.

LTIR keeps the Flyers from banking too much, so I wouldnt worry about capgeeks numbers. Capgeek is assuming a lot of things in that $4.5 mill number (Lappy and Walker out for year, Pronger out for a bit longer, bonuses not being met, us running with 21 or 22 players instead of 23). Just know that the Flyers have some wiggle room, but won't be huge players at the deadline. Perhaps flip Zherdev for a guy with a slightly higher salary or something. The could easily take $1.5 extra in a player swap. Perhaps more if Walker and Lappy are def done for the year.
Ha ha ha, stupid Cup-winning pieces of ... oh.

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01-07-2011, 10:46 AM
  #356
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Originally Posted by MountainHawk View Post
Pronger is not on LTIR, so he could come back tomorrow and the estimate would not be affected.
Well then, there you go. The Flyers aren't banking anything then. At all. Not with $2.8 mill of Lappy and Walker on IR.

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Ha ha ha, stupid Cup-winning pieces of ... oh.

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01-07-2011, 12:23 PM
  #357
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Originally Posted by IrishSniper87 View Post
Well then, there you go. The Flyers aren't banking anything then. At all. Not with $2.8 mill of Lappy and Walker on IR.
They're banking about $1000 a day now that Syvret is up. Do you even look at the numbers before you post?

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01-07-2011, 12:33 PM
  #358
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Originally Posted by CantSeeColors View Post
They're banking about $1000 a day now that Syvret is up. Do you even look at the numbers before you post?
So, you are talking about a club with payroll over $60 mill and you want to argue about $1000 in daily capspace?

Whatever man. I didn't run all the math myself because it's too complicated. I COULD, but I don't have the time. $1000 in daily capspace is almost nothing when talking about players making in the millions.

Briere makes about $35,700 daily on the cap (notice his real salary this year is higher, but this is imaginary cap dollars we are talking about). The cap is calculated daily for about 182 days (I believe). Syvret takes up nearly $3,300 a day when he is up with the Flyers. Banking $1,000 a day is roughly equal to 182k cap space if we are banking it EVERYDAY of the "cap" season, which we aren't, since it fluctuates up and down with roster moves.

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01-07-2011, 02:03 PM
  #359
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Originally Posted by IrishSniper87 View Post
So, you are talking about a club with payroll over $60 mill and you want to argue about $1000 in daily capspace?

Whatever man. I didn't run all the math myself because it's too complicated. I COULD, but I don't have the time. $1000 in daily capspace is almost nothing when talking about players making in the millions.

Briere makes about $35,700 daily on the cap (notice his real salary this year is higher, but this is imaginary cap dollars we are talking about). The cap is calculated daily for about 182 days (I believe). Syvret takes up nearly $3,300 a day when he is up with the Flyers. Banking $1,000 a day is roughly equal to 182k cap space if we are banking it EVERYDAY of the "cap" season, which we aren't, since it fluctuates up and down with roster moves.
It's not huge, but it's also not exactly hard to just wander over to capgeek and look at the daily tracker. The guy wanted to know how much space the Flyers will have and every little bit adds up.

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01-07-2011, 02:18 PM
  #360
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Originally Posted by CantSeeColors View Post
It's not huge, but it's also not exactly hard to just wander over to capgeek and look at the daily tracker. The guy wanted to know how much space the Flyers will have and every little bit adds up.
Right now we could swing $3mill, depending on how many guys you want on the roster 21, 22 or 23 and how much out of JVR, Bob's and others bonuses are realistically going to be hit.

I'd rather pick up no more then $2 mill and have some wiggle room for call-ups. I also value 22 or 23 men on the roster at all times. Injuries are a pain.

Moving Zherdev means you can bring back a $4 mill salary tho

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01-07-2011, 11:12 PM
  #361
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The Flyers had a unique situation as far as calculating their long-term injured reserve position, and we initially over-shot our calculations on their cap space. We have since fine-tuned our numbers and if you assume Matt Walker and Ian Laperriere are on long-term injured reserve, the Flyers could add a cap hit of roughly $3 million at any point between now and the trade deadline.

http://www.capgeek.com/tracker/team....nch=2011-02-27

We apologize for tweeting an incorrect cap space figure earlier this week, but if you follow @capgeek on Twitter we do make sure to notify followers of any significant changes to our calculations. The cap is a complicated system and new scenarios are always popping up, but we do our best to stay on top of it.

Thanks,

CapGeek.com

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01-08-2011, 10:03 AM
  #362
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Originally Posted by CapGeek View Post
The Flyers had a unique situation as far as calculating their long-term injured reserve position, and we initially over-shot our calculations on their cap space. We have since fine-tuned our numbers and if you assume Matt Walker and Ian Laperriere are on long-term injured reserve, the Flyers could add a cap hit of roughly $3 million at any point between now and the trade deadline.

http://www.capgeek.com/tracker/team....nch=2011-02-27

We apologize for tweeting an incorrect cap space figure earlier this week, but if you follow @capgeek on Twitter we do make sure to notify followers of any significant changes to our calculations. The cap is a complicated system and new scenarios are always popping up, but we do our best to stay on top of it.

Thanks,

CapGeek.com
I noticed a day or two ago that you said the Flyers could had a ~$3million cap hit any time between now and the deadline and that number wouldn't change. Why is that? Since they're now banking cap space I would think it would go up. Thanks for stopping in to help with our discussion here.

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01-08-2011, 02:07 PM
  #363
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CantSeeColors View Post
I noticed a day or two ago that you said the Flyers could had a ~$3million cap hit any time between now and the deadline and that number wouldn't change. Why is that? Since they're now banking cap space I would think it would go up. Thanks for stopping in to help with our discussion here.
The reason is because you can't "ration out" your banked cap space when you're in an LTIR situation. What that means is, if you've got $400,000 banked on deadline day, you can't just spread that out as $9,523 per day over the remaining 42 days to give yourself extra room -- you have to spend all of it first before you dip into LTIR. So at some point before the end of the season, once the banked space is gone, the Flyers' daily spending will not be able to exceed the cap by more than ~$15,412 (their daily LTIR allowance).

It's pretty messy stuff, as the Flyers might be able to do some cap gymnastics to squeeze out a little more space, but $3 million is a pretty safe estimate according to our calculations.

Hope that helps,

CapGeek.com

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01-08-2011, 02:53 PM
  #364
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Originally Posted by CapGeek View Post
The reason is because you can't "ration out" your banked cap space when you're in an LTIR situation. What that means is, if you've got $400,000 banked on deadline day, you can't just spread that out as $9,523 per day over the remaining 42 days to give yourself extra room -- you have to spend all of it first before you dip into LTIR. So at some point before the end of the season, once the banked space is gone, the Flyers' daily spending will not be able to exceed the cap by more than ~$15,412 (their daily LTIR allowance).

It's pretty messy stuff, as the Flyers might be able to do some cap gymnastics to squeeze out a little more space, but $3 million is a pretty safe estimate according to our calculations.

Hope that helps,

CapGeek.com
Thanks very much for visiting with your expert explanation, Mr. CapGeek. My son has some math homework this weekend; can he e-mail you?

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01-08-2011, 04:03 PM
  #365
IrishSniper87
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Originally Posted by CapGeek View Post
The reason is because you can't "ration out" your banked cap space when you're in an LTIR situation. What that means is, if you've got $400,000 banked on deadline day, you can't just spread that out as $9,523 per day over the remaining 42 days to give yourself extra room -- you have to spend all of it first before you dip into LTIR. So at some point before the end of the season, once the banked space is gone, the Flyers' daily spending will not be able to exceed the cap by more than ~$15,412 (their daily LTIR allowance).

It's pretty messy stuff, as the Flyers might be able to do some cap gymnastics to squeeze out a little more space, but $3 million is a pretty safe estimate according to our calculations.

Hope that helps,

CapGeek.com
Similar to what I've been preaching for years here, lol. LTIR (which the Flyers are almost always using, Hatcher, Rathje, Lappy, Walker just to name a few the past few years) DOES affect the cap, specifically when it comes to "banking" cap space.

Thanks for the extra clarification.

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01-08-2011, 04:05 PM
  #366
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IrishSniper87 View Post
Similar to what I've been preaching for years here, lol. LTIR (which the Flyers are almost always using, Hatcher, Rathje, Lappy, Walker just to name a few the past few years) DOES affect the cap, specifically when it comes to "banking" cap space.

Thanks for the extra clarification.
This is the first time the Flyers have been in cap compliance since 2006.

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01-08-2011, 04:39 PM
  #367
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Originally Posted by CapGeek View Post
The reason is because you can't "ration out" your banked cap space when you're in an LTIR situation. What that means is, if you've got $400,000 banked on deadline day, you can't just spread that out as $9,523 per day over the remaining 42 days to give yourself extra room -- you have to spend all of it first before you dip into LTIR. So at some point before the end of the season, once the banked space is gone, the Flyers' daily spending will not be able to exceed the cap by more than ~$15,412 (their daily LTIR allowance).

It's pretty messy stuff, as the Flyers might be able to do some cap gymnastics to squeeze out a little more space, but $3 million is a pretty safe estimate according to our calculations.

Hope that helps,

CapGeek.com
Thanks. I knew about most of the rules regarding banking cap space and LTIR, but that's the first I've come across that one.

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