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Rozsival has a ribcage injury

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01-06-2011, 01:11 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
I think hes slightly above average because he is capable of logging huge minutes. He's also a gamer. He shows up in the big games down the stretch and in the playoffs, and if you dont agree then you havent been watching closely enough. Whats wrong with an average defender anyway? The three you mentioned are average...

Agree on Sauer, hes capable of playing more, but i cannot say that MCD is going to be "exceptionally better" than Rozy in 3 months - thats an absurd comment imo. If he was that talented he would be on the team from the start.
I have 5 million reasons why he gets huge minutes...just like Redden last year getting 15-17 minutes a night when he didn't deserve more than 8-10.

I watch every game and I always watch when Rozy's on the ice because I want to see what people like you see and I see a guy who tries but is just not that good. He will make a good pass or a good play on occassion but for the most part he is beat to the puck or pushed off the puck without much fight or he will make a pass that pins the team in our zone.

I can live with those mistakes from Gilroy, Sauer and MDZ but not from a guy who is suppossed to be our 3rd best dman.

There is a lot wrong with average when you make 5 million a year.

At the beginning of the year...I would have been called crazy if i said Sauer was going to be better than Rozy in 3 months...but I wouldn't be so foolish now saying it, would I.

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01-06-2011, 01:20 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Orr Nightmare View Post
I have 5 million reasons why he gets huge minutes...just like Redden last year getting 15-17 minutes a night when he didn't deserve more than 8-10.

I watch every game and I always watch when Rozy's on the ice because I want to see what people like you see and I see a guy who tries but is just not that good. He will make a good pass or a good play on occassion but for the most part he is beat to the puck or pushed off the puck without much fight or he will make a pass that pins the team in our zone.

I can live with those mistakes from Gilroy, Sauer and MDZ but not from a guy who is suppossed to be our 3rd best dman.

There is a lot wrong with average when you make 5 million a year.

At the beginning of the year...I would have been called crazy if i said Sauer was going to be better than Rozy in 3 months...but I wouldn't be so foolish now saying it, would I.
I cant say Sauer has been exceptionally better than Rozy, and im a big fan of his. Rozy hasnt been great nor bad the last few weeks imo. Sauer has flown under the radar and has played a solid defensive game. Thats his game.

Fair enough about Rozy regarding his play compared to his contract. He did have a great start though, and im expecting the same to finish the year.

My problem with Rozy is his indecisiveness. When hes not playing well hes not moving his feet, he's slow to make a telegraphed pass and he doesnt shoot the puck. But in the zone hes been relatively solid this season. Would I be opposed to moving him? Abosolutely not. I'm not saying the guy is an All-star. Hes hasnt been the perfect player by any means, but this team isn't better because he's out with an injury if that's what you're hinting at.

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01-06-2011, 01:32 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
I cant say Sauer has been exceptionally better than Rozy, and im a big fan of his. Rozy hasnt been great nor bad the last few weeks imo. Sauer has flown under the radar and has played a solid defensive game. Thats his game.

Fair enough about Rozy regarding his play compared to his contract. He did have a great start though, and im expecting the same to finish the year.

My problem with Rozy is his indecisiveness. When hes not playing well hes not moving his feet, he's slow to make a telegraphed pass and he doesnt shoot the puck. But in the zone hes been relatively solid this season. Would I be opposed to moving him? Abosolutely not. I'm not saying the guy is an All-star. Hes hasnt been the perfect player by any means, but this team isn't better because he's out with an injury if that's what you're hinting at.
Sorry, I was begin cruel...I don't hate Rozy, just not a big fan...I wish he was better than he is but he is not.

But what makes me so opinionated about getting rid of Rozy is that our young guys have performed so well that I am willing to take a chance on trading Rozy and replacing him with one of our own.

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01-06-2011, 02:05 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by DatsyukSOGoal View Post
Injuries are a funny thing. The 2008 Yankees were slammed with injuries to key players like Posada and Wang, because of that they failed to even make the playoffs. The 2009 Yankees were virtually injury free and won the WS.
THe 2009 Yankees also had Mark Texiera, CC Sabathia and AJ Burnett....the 2008 Yankees didn't lol

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01-06-2011, 02:58 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Orr Nightmare View Post
I have 5 million reasons why he gets huge minutes...just like Redden last year getting 15-17 minutes a night when he didn't deserve more than 8-10.
15-17 is 3rd pairing minutes. You can only give someone 8-10 if someone is else is picking up their slack, which is exactly my concern in this case. There's diminishing returns to heavy ice time for your top pairing.

Obviously, the argument that certain Rangers have their ice time tied to their cap hit is simply no longer true.

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01-06-2011, 03:07 PM
  #56
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Drury has been averaging 12 minutes per game. Sean Avery less than 12. Frolov is 10th in ATOI amongst forwards on our squad.

It's a cute thing to say, that Rosie only plays those minutes because of his salary, but it has zero basis in reality.

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01-06-2011, 03:10 PM
  #57
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Are some people really complaining that Rozy is injury prone?

Look, Im not freaked about missing the guy for a game or two, but things like this really bring out the dumbasses when it comes to defensive assessment.

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01-06-2011, 03:25 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
Drury has been averaging 12 minutes per game. Sean Avery less than 12. Frolov is 10th in ATOI amongst forwards on our squad.

It's a cute thing to say, that Rosie only plays those minutes because of his salary, but it has zero basis in reality.
Here we go with Rozy for the Norris again.

When he was out at the beginning of the year, I didn't see the slightest drop off and I don't anticipate it again.

He is an average dman making elite money...

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01-06-2011, 03:29 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Orr Nightmare View Post
Here we go with Rozy for the Norris again.

When he was out at the beginning of the year, I didn't see the slightest drop off and I don't anticipate it again.

He is an average dman making elite money...
LOL, right. That's exactly what I said. No need to resort to hyperbole.

He is a solid defenseman making about a million more than he should be. Elite money? That's the $7MM paid to Chara and Campbell, or the 9 other guys making more than $6MM. He's not making elite money.

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01-06-2011, 03:46 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Orr Nightmare View Post
Here we go with Rozy for the Norris again.

When he was out at the beginning of the year, I didn't see the slightest drop off and I don't anticipate it again.

He is an average dman making elite money...
Wow, really? Did you even read his post, good lord...

Why do you have to make a melodramatic comment because 2k2 gave a perfectly legitimate counter-example to the statement, "He gets big minutes because of his salary."

Yes, he is an average d-man making elite money. Not even the most vehement Rozsival supporter will disagree with that.

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01-06-2011, 04:00 PM
  #61
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Michal Rozsival says the muscles surrounding his ribs had been hurting for several days but got worse during game last night
https://twitter.com/#!/thenyrangers/...20960043360256

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Rozsival says he will skate tomorrow morning and decide if he can play against Stars
https://twitter.com/#!/thenyrangers/...21418451419136

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01-06-2011, 04:08 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Bardof425 View Post
Two things were clear, Avery was the best player on the ice and Rozi was the worst.
Maybe because he was playing hurt?

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01-06-2011, 04:18 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by DrurysWeekend View Post
Yes, he is an average d-man making elite money.
It's not elite money, it's just UFA market value. Paul Martin and Sergei Gonchar got similar contracts last summer. Fair comps I'd say.

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01-06-2011, 06:11 PM
  #64
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I don't really care about the money. Some people can't come to terms with the fact he's on the team and we need him right now unless we take on a defenseman. Do you really want Gilroy, McDonagh or Del Zotto getting those kind of minutes? Do you want 2 of the 3 in the lineup?

And Roszival may not be overwhelmingly better than those youngsters anymore, but he's much less prone to mistakes and especially at the frequency the others are.

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01-06-2011, 06:42 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by RangerFan10 View Post
I don't really care about the money. Some people can't come to terms with the fact he's on the team and we need him right now unless we take on a defenseman. Do you really want Gilroy, McDonagh or Del Zotto getting those kind of minutes? Do you want 2 of the 3 in the lineup?
And Roszival may not be overwhelmingly better than those youngsters anymore, but he's much less prone to mistakes and especially at the frequency the others are.
I have no problem with that...because this team is not winning the cup this year...so, i am willing to let the kids live and learn and like I stated before...I don't think there would be much of a drop off...it at all!

The Habs have been destroyed by injuries on Defense...if I am Glen, I put in a call and maybe hose the Habs again.

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01-06-2011, 07:41 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Orr Nightmare View Post
I have no problem with that...because this team is not winning the cup this year...so, i am willing to let the kids live and learn and like I stated before...I don't think there would be much of a drop off...it at all!

The Habs have been destroyed by injuries on Defense...if I am Glen, I put in a call and maybe hose the Habs again.
The problem with the "throw the kids in there, we aren't winning the cup!" argument is you can't just throw a guy into 20 minutes of NHL ice time and expect them to become an all-star. That's not how players are developed. Sure, some ARE brought away this way and it works. That isn't everyone though.

Gilroy has reached the point where he probably needs the ice time to learn, especially with his confidence at an all-time high. But I really don't think the answer to MDZ's troubles or continuing along McDonagh's development is ~20 minutes of ice time. Sauer also probably COULD handle 20 minutes, but given his injury history do we really want to rush him too? Of all of them, I'll agree that there are probably 4 of all our d-men outside of Roszival that wouldn't be hurt by that kind of ice time. I still don't think it makes us a better team, whether it be the short or long term.

You've also got to realize if we deal Roszival, there's no way we're not taking salary back. Whether or not we can find useful/non-detrimental salary that isn't on a long term deal has yet to be seen.

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01-07-2011, 11:03 AM
  #67
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LOL, right. That's exactly what I said. No need to resort to hyperbole.

He is a solid defenseman making about a million more than he should be. Elite money? That's the $7MM paid to Chara and Campbell, or the 9 other guys making more than $6MM. He's not making elite money.
this is where you lose me. "He is a solid defenseman". No, he's not. He's a giveaway machine with poor speed who doesn't produce offensively the way he used to. You can say alot of things about him; he works hard; he's experienced; he has a good shot when he gets it on net; he's good in the locker room.

But solid defensively?? Uh uh. Solid d-men get back to pucks dumped behind them and move the puck out. They win physical battles in front of the net and along the wall. Just engaging in battles isn't enough. They use their bodies to keep opponents out of prime scoring areas.

He does none of these things well. Just because you keep saying he's "solid" doesn't make him solid. If he's solid then Marc Staal is the Rock of Gibralter back there and he's not. Soft would be a better description of Rozi's defensive game. Try saying he's a "soft defenseman" who logs big minutes and doesn't have a suitable replacement at this time and you will have more credibility on the issue.

Don't hate him; just want to see young guys get a shot in a year in which we are not cup contenders. It will serve us better down the road.

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01-07-2011, 11:05 AM
  #68
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Maybe because he was playing hurt?
Or maybe just because he isn't good anymore and has too many aweful nights. Even Torts is starting to state publicly that Rozi's play has not been good lately. How long has he been hurt? A month?

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01-07-2011, 11:05 AM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Bardof425 View Post
Or maybe just because he isn't good anymore and has too many aweful nights. Even Torts is starting to state publicly that Rozi's play has not been good lately. How long has he been hurt? A month?
Quite possibly.

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01-07-2011, 11:07 AM
  #70
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The problem with the "throw the kids in there, we aren't winning the cup!" argument is you can't just throw a guy into 20 minutes of NHL ice time and expect them to become an all-star. That's not how players are developed. Sure, some ARE brought away this way and it works. That isn't everyone though.

Gilroy has reached the point where he probably needs the ice time to learn, especially with his confidence at an all-time high. But I really don't think the answer to MDZ's troubles or continuing along McDonagh's development is ~20 minutes of ice time. Sauer also probably COULD handle 20 minutes, but given his injury history do we really want to rush him too? Of all of them, I'll agree that there are probably 4 of all our d-men outside of Roszival that wouldn't be hurt by that kind of ice time. I still don't think it makes us a better team, whether it be the short or long term.

You've also got to realize if we deal Roszival, there's no way we're not taking salary back. Whether or not we can find useful/non-detrimental salary that isn't on a long term deal has yet to be seen.
There are teams not pushing the edge of the cap like Atlanta and others who would take him off our hands for prospects in an attempt to improve their chances of making the playoffs since his actual salary is well below his cap hit. let's see if it happens.

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01-07-2011, 11:08 AM
  #71
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Quite possibly.
Not likely

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01-07-2011, 11:22 AM
  #72
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Not likely
Why not? He was playing good hockey most of the year.

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01-07-2011, 11:54 AM
  #73
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But solid defensively?? Uh uh. Solid d-men get back to pucks dumped behind them and move the puck out. They win physical battles in front of the net and along the wall. Just engaging in battles isn't enough. They use their bodies to keep opponents out of prime scoring areas.

He does none of these things well.
Who's expecting him to?

Being "good" defensively and being a stay-at-home defenseman are not the same thing.

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01-07-2011, 12:56 PM
  #74
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Not sure if it's been mentioned already but Roszival is out for tonight's game @ DAL:

Quote:
@thenyrangers Rozsival will not play tonight due to sore ribs...Ryan McDonagh makes #NHL debut for #NYR about 1 minute ago reply

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01-07-2011, 01:24 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by Bardof425 View Post
this is where you lose me. "He is a solid defenseman". No, he's not. He's a giveaway machine with poor speed who doesn't produce offensively the way he used to. You can say alot of things about him; he works hard; he's experienced; he has a good shot when he gets it on net; he's good in the locker room.

But solid defensively?? Uh uh. Solid d-men get back to pucks dumped behind them and move the puck out. They win physical battles in front of the net and along the wall. Just engaging in battles isn't enough. They use their bodies to keep opponents out of prime scoring areas.

He does none of these things well. Just because you keep saying he's "solid" doesn't make him solid. If he's solid then Marc Staal is the Rock of Gibralter back there and he's not. Soft would be a better description of Rozi's defensive game. Try saying he's a "soft defenseman" who logs big minutes and doesn't have a suitable replacement at this time and you will have more credibility on the issue.
Rozy has 13 turnovers in 32 games. Girardi (29), MDZ (23) and Staal (19) all have more. Last year he had 28 giveaways in 82 games (Tyler Myers had 94). 133 dmen had more turnovers than him last year.

Just because you keep saying he's "a giveaway machine" doesn't make him a giveaway machine.

See, the problem with having a bias against a player, is that you are only going to notice when he screws up, or at least, when you perceive that he screws up. Everything you watch is cast into a negative light. Try watching him with an open mind and you'll find he isn't nearly as bad as you make him out to be. I'm not saying he's playing like an allstar, but he makes his share of good plays on the back end.

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