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Old
01-07-2011, 01:04 PM
  #176
Blueline Bomber
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Clearly, you know the Canes GM better than Canes fans. JR's dislike of Russians is pretty blatant, probably stemming from the years of wasted 1st round draft picks on them.

So yes, Staal is a better player in Carolina than Malkin. Doesn't mean Malkin isn't more talented, or whatever answer you'd like to calm your little head, but it does mean that given the choice of selling the game to the fans, JR would make Staal the face of the franchise 100 times over over Malkin.

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Old
01-07-2011, 01:17 PM
  #177
tarheelhockey
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It's really sad how bent out of shape Pens fans are getting here. Like a spurned ex on prom night watching us dance with another girl who is soooooo totally not prettier.

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Old
01-07-2011, 01:18 PM
  #178
caniac247
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sawtooth420 View Post
I can read just fine, thank you. It has been pointed out several times by other Canes fans that they consider Staal to be the better player. If you want to start personally insulting me because of some weird insecurity you have about Malkin then go ahead. The Pens are not looking for a marketable community team leader. The Pens want a top notch game changer which both players certainly are, but Malkin is one of THE game changers. I'm not going to get in a pissing match about this. Your argument centers around "marketability and leadership" which is fine and all, but I want the better PLAYER on my team = Malkin. If you want to insult me personally some more, that's fine. Whatever makes you feel better slugger. I really don't care two ***** about your insults. I think it's hilarious how you need to attack others to make your argument more plausible. Keep going with it!!!
Staal is the BETTER player for the Carolina Hurricanes. Not sure why that is so hard to comprehend.

Is any Canes fan saying Staal is the better player as in putting up points or the stats. No. What I and others are saying that to the Hurricanes Staal is the better player for them.

Its great that you want the guy who puts up the points. If we had a Crosby (he markets on his own), I'd want a guy who could put up the points too. Fact of the matter is the Canes don't, they need to grow the sport in a small market, therefore Staal is the BETTER player for that.

The OP asked thoughts on a Malkin for Staal proposal. Canes are saying no because Staal is better for the Canes than Malkin. Trading Staal will make the Canes go backwards not forward.

Points don't always determine who the better player is for a specific team. You have to look beyond who can and can't put up 100 points every season.


ETA: Just read your comment that JR would take Malkin in a heartbeat if the proposal was offered. 100% disagree on that. JR has a disdain for Russians. They are not his favorites. If he had the option of Staal or Malkin to be the face of his franchise, sorry but he chooses Staal.


Last edited by caniac247: 01-07-2011 at 01:24 PM.
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Old
01-07-2011, 01:20 PM
  #179
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anton Bomb View Post
Clearly, you know the Canes GM better than Canes fans. JR's dislike of Russians is pretty blatant, probably stemming from the years of wasted 1st round draft picks on them.

So yes, Staal is a better player in Carolina than Malkin. Doesn't mean Malkin isn't more talented, or whatever answer you'd like to calm your little head, but it does mean that given the choice of selling the game to the fans, JR would make Staal the face of the franchise 100 times over over Malkin.
Dude, simmer down. Your GM picked up Samsonov at his lowest value and resigned him to a decent contract. So he must not hate Russians that much because one could make a case for Samsonov being the laziest out of all of them.

Secondly, I was not attacking you, but rather giving my opinion in this thread and disagreeing with some of your argument. So why don't you start conversing like an adult and not a little whiny teenage girl by telling me to calm my "little head"? FYI, it's when people resort to personal attacks in a debate that they come off as morons. If you want to have an intelligent conversation about this....ahhh forget about it. Every reply to a decent reasonable post has been so childish.


ALAS, Pittsburgh says no. Carry on kids.

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Old
01-07-2011, 01:30 PM
  #180
tarheelhockey
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Originally Posted by sawtooth420 View Post
So he must not hate Russians that much because one could make a case for Samsonov being the laziest out of all of them.


says privyet.

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Old
01-07-2011, 01:41 PM
  #181
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sawtooth420 View Post
Dude, simmer down. Your GM picked up Samsonov at his lowest value and resigned him to a decent contract. So he must not hate Russians that much because one could make a case for Samsonov being the laziest out of all of them.
You see, it's hard to have an argument or a conversation like an adult when so many people talk about things they've got no knowledge of or try and claim they've got more knowledge than those more experienced in the situation (such as you claiming to have more knowledge on how JR's mind works than Canes fans).

Grabbing Samsonov at the lowest value doesn't prove anything, especially considering during the length of Samsonov's contract, JR also let go of a young, goal-scoring defenseman simply because he wouldn't take a lowball offer. An offer that was lowballed simply because he played in the KHL the year before.

Again, it's not a knock against Malkin (unless you believe Malkin should be universally loved, then it is a knock against him), but in Carolina, Staal being the face of the franchise makes far more sense than Malkin.

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Old
01-07-2011, 01:43 PM
  #182
Finlandia WOAT
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sawtooth420 View Post
Dude, simmer down. Your GM picked up Samsonov at his lowest value and resigned him to a decent contract. So he must not hate Russians that much because one could make a case for Samsonov being the laziest out of all of them.

Secondly, I was not attacking you, but rather giving my opinion in this thread and disagreeing with some of your argument. So why don't you start conversing like an adult and not a little whiny teenage girl by telling me to calm my "little head"? FYI, it's when people resort to personal attacks in a debate that they come off as morons. If you want to have an intelligent conversation about this....ahhh forget about it. Every reply to a decent reasonable post has been so childish.


ALAS, Pittsburgh says no. Carry on kids.
And JR has regretted that signing for the past two years.

Plus, he didn't pick Samsonov up because he was Russian, he picked him up because JR looks for treasures in the garbage dump. With a limited budget, the only way he can get quality wingers is in the Land of Misfit Toys, so to speak.

If Pittsburgh called today and offered Malkin for Staal JR would say no. It is just that simple. No ifs, ands or buts.

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Old
01-07-2011, 01:51 PM
  #183
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sawtooth420 View Post
This is reasonable but I disagree with some of it.
Most of these people either aren't Canes fans or are talking about aspects that Staal is better in and NOT that he is the better player. Your comment that I was responding to was:

"It has been pointed out several times by other Canes fans that they consider Staal to be the better player."

Anyhow, I was going to try and answer point by point, but it really serves no purpose and I've wasted enough time on this thread

I think it's safe to say this deal will never happen.

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Old
01-07-2011, 01:55 PM
  #184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom Boom Anton View Post
Most of these people either aren't Canes fans or are talking about aspects that Staal is better in and NOT that he is the better player. Your comment that I was responding to was:

"It has been pointed out several times by other Canes fans that they consider Staal to be the better player."

Anyhow, I was going to try and answer point by point, but it really serves no purpose and I've wasted enough time on this thread

I think it's safe to say this deal will never happen.
Agreed.

It needs tied off.

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Old
01-07-2011, 01:56 PM
  #185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anton 2nd Pick View Post
And JR has regretted that signing for the past two years.

Plus, he didn't pick Samsonov up because he was Russian, he picked him up because JR looks for treasures in the garbage dump. With a limited budget, the only way he can get quality wingers is in the Land of Misfit Toys, so to speak.

If Pittsburgh called today and offered Malkin for Staal JR would say no. It is just that simple. No ifs, ands or buts.
To add, Samsonov might be Russian, but he is more Americanized then Russian, so can you really group him in with the other Russians in the league. The dude has been in America since he was 14. He married an American and lives in Detroit in the offseason. Its not like Samsonov was a threat to deflect to the KHL, which JR feels every Russian playing in the NHL is.

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Old
01-07-2011, 03:07 PM
  #186
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done. bring Staal to Pitt please.

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Old
01-07-2011, 04:22 PM
  #187
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Originally Posted by StormCast View Post
On the first point, they were a much better team that year obviously than were the Canes last year when Staal was named captain. He took a much weaker team on his back, without his #1 goalie for much of the time, and put the team in a position to make a playoff run.
Malkin did everything anyone could've asked and more when Crosby went down. That's leadership when the Pens desperately needed a leader. Again, you want to dismiss whatever Malkin did because of the team he's on - even when it's blatantly obvious that he was a huge part of their success.

Quote:
You conveniently forget that Malkin's time as THE MAN, the guy other teams build game plans around is very limited vs. Staal. Most times he plays in a supporting role with Crosby there while Staal is THE focal point for every opponent.
I didn't forget it. I referenced it several times - in fact, every time I said that Malkin can't help playing on Crosby's team.

Malkin has proven he can perform whether Sid's there or not.

Quote:
On your second point, seriously? Last I checked it's a team sport but you want to cherry pick this kind of example? Too funny and you are a much bigger homer than I thought I guess. So every time one team beats another in a playoff series, it determines who is the better leader, even when you compare an A to a C? Incredible and absurd - it was simply a case of Malkin having a better series. I know it and you know it. Way to shed any trace of credibility. Homer.
Winning the series is hardly the main point - I'm not comparing Dupuis to your Staal. It's their relative performances, where Malkin was the main factor in the Pens win and Eric Staal was a non-factor.

Whatever intangible advantages you claim Staal has, they weren't anywhere to be seen that series.

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Old
01-07-2011, 05:29 PM
  #188
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OMG, this pissing contest has gone on for 8 freakin' pages? To the original OP, thanks, but no thanks - Malkin apparently has more value for the Pens, and Staal obviously has more value to the Canes, so the Canes will respectfully have to decline your proposal. See? There - sweet, succinct, and to the point. Move along folks, nothing left to see here...

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Old
01-07-2011, 05:37 PM
  #189
caniac247
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NM, I've spent too much time on this.

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Old
01-07-2011, 05:58 PM
  #190
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Neither teams say yes to this.

Staal and Malkin are both integral parts for their respective teams.

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Old
01-08-2011, 10:01 AM
  #191
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Originally Posted by Champagne Wishes View Post
Malkin did everything anyone could've asked and more when Crosby went down. That's leadership when the Pens desperately needed a leader. Again, you want to dismiss whatever Malkin did because of the team he's on - even when it's blatantly obvious that he was a huge part of their success.

I didn't forget it. I referenced it several times - in fact, every time I said that Malkin can't help playing on Crosby's team.

Malkin has proven he can perform whether Sid's there or not.

Winning the series is hardly the main point - I'm not comparing Dupuis to your Staal. It's their relative performances, where Malkin was the main factor in the Pens win and Eric Staal was a non-factor.

Whatever intangible advantages you claim Staal has, they weren't anywhere to be seen that series.
I'm not at all dismissing what Malkin did. I'm simply stating that what Staal did was more impressive when you take full circumstances into account. For whatever reason you seem stuck on the fact that me saying A > B, is dismissing B.

That's not true, and anyone who's read this circular banter would have seen that I rated Malkin above Staal offensively. But I rated Staal higher on several attributes that I think constitute leadership. Yet here you actually as if I rated Staal a 10 and Malkin a 1, all the while furiously trying to promote Malkin.

For you to keep focusing one their performance on one playoff series where Staal was the C of an overachieving team and Malkin, though he had a great series, was playing as the A is utter, homer-driven nonsense. Were they carrying the same weight in that series? No? The Pens tried to stop Staal, the Canes tried to stop Crosby. That doesn't take away from Malkin's dominance but it's not comparing an apple to an apple either. You can possibly add that series into a discussion about Staal and Crosby's leadership but comparing an A to a C? Come on, get real.

You can disagree with my opinion, but at least I've included some objectivity into the discussion while you've played the party of fanboy to the hilt.

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Old
01-08-2011, 12:37 PM
  #192
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The emphasis on leadership in this thread is getting to Jonathan Toews level.

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Old
01-08-2011, 01:34 PM
  #193
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The pens and the canes would not make this trade. Lots of people are right in this thread, there are features of both players which make them great on their respective teams. The pens don't need Staal, and according to canes fans they don't want or need Malkin. The faceoff talk is unreal sure malkin is around 40% and Staal is only around 45%. Case and point Staal is not that much better.

The canes fans feel that Malkin would be a poor leader of their team. But did they ever consider the point of placing the "C" on another player and just letting Malkin be Malkin. When Crosby went down Malkin did much like Staal did when he received the C. The Pens do not need a player like Staal as he just would be a number two who is worse offensively then Malkin, the Pens have there leader and do not need another one.

So this trade wont happen, IF the pens were to trade Malkin, which is highly unlikely i would see it being NJ if it is in the east.

To NJ:
Malkin
(conditional Pick pending Parise resigns)

To Pit:
Parise
Elias (Cash dump who wouldnt hinder the pens chance at a cup this year)

For the Canes, they wont move Staal and for the near future will not be overly competitive. They have great prospects but not the supporting cast that a trade including Staal would make them that much better.

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Old
01-08-2011, 01:39 PM
  #194
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Originally Posted by StormCast View Post
I'm not at all dismissing what Malkin did. I'm simply stating that what Staal did was more impressive when you take full circumstances into account. For whatever reason you seem stuck on the fact that me saying A > B, is dismissing B.
And that's what's contentious.

Quote:
For you to keep focusing one their performance on one playoff series where Staal was the C of an overachieving team and Malkin, though he had a great series, was playing as the A is utter, homer-driven nonsense. Were they carrying the same weight in that series? No? The Pens tried to stop Staal, the Canes tried to stop Crosby. That doesn't take away from Malkin's dominance but it's not comparing an apple to an apple either. You can possibly add that series into a discussion about Staal and Crosby's leadership but comparing an A to a C? Come on, get real.
Trying to compare players in a head-to-head match-up? Outrageous!

If the Canes weren't trying to stop Malkin in that series, I guess they learned their lesson. Meanwhile, Staal's nebulous "leadership attributes" didn't seem to affect much, and certainly didn't look like a tipping point in his favour.

Quote:
You can disagree with my opinion, but at least I've included some objectivity into the discussion while you've played the party of fanboy to the hilt.
Haha, what?

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Old
01-18-2011, 12:18 PM
  #195
SuburbanRhythm
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Pulling this back

Because we obviously have our answer as to who is the better leader, based on All-Star captains selections






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Old
01-18-2011, 12:31 PM
  #196
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For the hell of it, lets put this out there. An interesting stat I came across while looking up stuff for another thread

Since 05-06 season, Staal and Malkin are the only 2 players to have a 100+ point regular season AND lead the playoffs in scoring in the same season. You have to go back to the 00-01 season to find the last person before 05-06 who had a 100+ point season AND led the playoffs in scoring, and that was Joe Sakic.

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Old
01-18-2011, 12:41 PM
  #197
Jerry Lundegaard
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what a dumb thread.

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