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Flyers’ Meszaros Quietly Having Banner Year

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Old
01-07-2011, 06:48 PM
  #51
Damaged Goods
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
The same story can be told for O'Donnell, who has finally seen his +/- begin to normalize a bit.
This just so happens to coincide with the fact that Meszaros has been moved up from the 3rd pairing because of the Pronger injury...


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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Who knows, maybe Meszaros will prove he can hold up his play if we put him into tougher situations
It's a small sample size (and hopefully remains so), but he has not dropped off after stepping up for Pronger.


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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
his statistics this year are significantly buoyed by the fact that he's been put into a situation in which he should succeed.
That's exactly the scenario you should find on a team with high expectations. A good team should overmatch opponents to the extent that they can demonstrate a high rate of repeated success. Meszaros has performed well over replacement level for a 3rd pairing D. The more excess over replacement level that you can insert into your roster, the better your chances of success.


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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
The fact of the matter is that we have 3 D in our top 6 that are a bit iffy when you set 'em out there alone. Coburn, Carle, and Meszaros all have skills that can do a lot of good for you, but limitations that are also present at the same time.
Not sure what you mean by putting a player out there "alone," but any D will suffer if paired with a replacement level player. A team that is expected to contend minimizes risk by making sure as few replacement level players as possible even see the ice.

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01-07-2011, 06:51 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by UseYourAllusion View Post
C'mon buddy, Meszaros is being paid better than many first pairing Ds, and the vast majority of second paring d's.
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Originally Posted by Valhoun View Post
In this case, $285,700 per point.
That's not what he is being paid for.

With this argument, Zherdev is the Flyers MVP

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01-07-2011, 06:53 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Jumping View Post
That's not what he is being paid for.
Which is what frustrates me.

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Old
01-07-2011, 07:05 PM
  #54
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Having him lead in +/- is cool and all, but +/- is a completely useless stat, at least in the context of this discussion.

I was probably too harsh on the Meszaros deal in the off-season, but I still think the same thing I did in the off-season. His contract is bad and we probably overpaid for him.

As for his actual play on the ice, I'm satisfied and somewhat impressed. He's been sheltered on the third pairing a lot, but he seems better then Coburn and Carle at least and more capable of anchoring a second pairing (albeit the fact that I don't think any of three would be very good second pairing anchors). His point production is pretty unacceptable for a proclaimed offensive d-man that's getting paid as much as he is with the tools he has.

So this is kind of an odd situation. Meszaros has played well in his role, but he's still a long ways away from fulfilling his contract and I doubt he's gonna be able to do anything to replace Timonen or Pronger once they're gone or their play has drastically decreased.

He's still very young though, so at least there's that.

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01-07-2011, 07:12 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by UseYourAllusion View Post
Which is what frustrates me.
It's really frustrating having three above average pairings on your defense, I know.

The armchair GM's can't even admit when they are wrong. It's laughable.

We could win the cup and some of you would still fault Holmgren for whatever you perceive his faults to be. He has a different philosophy then some of you. He spends to the max - for a reason, not because he can't add. He invests heavily on defense - for a reason, not because he can't count. You may disagree with his approach, but you cannot deny him when it works.

I, for one, am absolutely loving the defense.

I'm with you guys on some things. I hated the Leighton signing and I don't get the return on Gagne. However, on the load up on D approach, I have to part ways with you.

I was skeptical on the load up on D strategy, but it is clearly been a winning strategy thus far and I can't imagine that not continuing in the playoffs when having defensemen who are not ready for the postseason becomes magnified 1000%.

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01-07-2011, 07:41 PM
  #56
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-Whoever isn't underpaid is overpaid.
-A 1st round pick is the most valuable thing ever.
-Youth > Veteran.
-Goaltending is the most important position.

It's all the same nonsense regardless of who types it.

Take a look at all the defensemen making $3.00m and up (basically the pay range for top 4 defensemen), and tell me that Meszaros has one of the worst contracts on that list.

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01-07-2011, 07:46 PM
  #57
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I think Mez has more of a future than Carle in Philly, so he's one trade away from top four minutes

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01-07-2011, 07:46 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
HFBoards:

-Whoever isn't underpaid is overpaid.
-A 1st round pick is the most valuable thing ever.
-Youth > Veteran.
-Goaltending is the most important position.

It's all the same nonsense regardless of who types it.

Take a look at all the defensemen making $3.00m and up (basically the pay range for top 4 defensemen), and tell me that Meszaros has one of the worst contracts on that list.
Well, he was salary dumped.

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01-07-2011, 07:46 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
HFBoards:

-Whoever isn't underpaid is overpaid.
-A 1st round pick is the most valuable thing ever.
-Youth > Veteran.
-Goaltending is the most important position.

It's all the same nonsense regardless of who types it.

Take a look at all the defensemen making $3.00m and up (basically the pay range for top 4 defensemen), and tell me that Meszaros has one of the worst contracts on that list.
look at the dman making 4mm and up, as that would be a better comparison. You probably also think the qb isnt the most important position either, or pitching. Everyone else's opinion is nonsense, hockey futures staff member chris shafer's opinion is fact. Dont anyone forget it.

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01-07-2011, 07:57 PM
  #60
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It's funny how people say that Mez's contract doesn't hurt us despite the fact that we have Powe (who is a freaking awful ES player, sorry, it's true) playing 14 mins a night for us and Boucher as a starting goaltender.

I mean, combine Zherdev's salary and knock a mill of Meszaros' and that's a pretty decent starting goalie right there, throw on Leighton's 1.55 and it starts to get depressing.

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01-07-2011, 07:58 PM
  #61
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By a rookie GM who got fleeced by Homer.

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01-07-2011, 07:59 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
It's funny how people say that Mez's contract doesn't hurt us despite the fact that we have Powe (who is a freaking awful ES player, sorry, it's true) playing 14 mins a night for us and Boucher as a starting goaltender.

I mean, combine Zherdev's salary and knock a mill of Meszaros' and that's a pretty decent starting goalie right there, throw on Leighton's 1.55 and it starts to get depressing.
Goaltender is the least important position in the NHL. Teams spending more than $4-5M on the position are wasting cap space.

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01-07-2011, 08:02 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainHawk View Post
Goaltender is the least important position in the NHL. Teams spending more than $4-5M on the position are wasting cap space.
Your first sentence is an exaggeration, Goaltender cost us the Stanley Cup last June.

Your second sentence is definitely true, but there's a big gap between "4-5 million dollar goaltender" and "Boucher/Bobro".

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01-07-2011, 08:02 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
It's funny how people say that Mez's contract doesn't hurt us despite the fact that we have Powe (who is a freaking awful ES player, sorry, it's true) playing 14 mins a night for us and Boucher as a starting goaltender.

I mean, combine Zherdev's salary and knock a mill of Meszaros' and that's a pretty decent starting goalie right there, throw on Leighton's 1.55 and it starts to get depressing.
The only goalie that would have earned that kind of coin would have been Nabakov. And not moving the salary to add him looks like it was definitely the right move in that case. It's not like Vokoun or someone worthwhile was on the open market.

I do understand people's arguments but I think when the worst you have to complain about is a guy like Meszaros making 500-800k too much on our 3rd pairing then maybe its not so bad. This team looks hands down better than last season and I really do believe that the improved defense is an important part of that

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01-07-2011, 08:05 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainHawk View Post
By a rookie GM who got fleeced by Homer.
You are literally the only person who thinks that.

He dumped 5.7M of longterm salary on us and didn't have to give up anything of note.

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01-07-2011, 08:06 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
Your first sentence is an exaggeration, Goaltender cost us the Stanley Cup last June.

Your second sentence is definitely true, but there's a big gap between "4-5 million dollar goaltender" and "Boucher/Bobro".
People like to say that, but I think it was the lack of credible 3rd D pair that cost us the Cup. Niemi isn't any better than Leighton. Chicago just didn't have to play 4 D-men 25+ minutes each to stay in games, and by the end the Flyers wore out.

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01-07-2011, 08:06 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Valhoun View Post
You are literally the only person who thinks that.

He dumped 5.7M of longterm salary on us and didn't have to give up anything of note.
Flyers ended up with a defense as dominant as the Phillies pitching staff.

As the Flyers are eliminating Tampa in game 5 of the conference semifinals, let me know what the Lightning gave up.

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01-07-2011, 08:08 PM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Inebriator View Post
The only goalie that would have earned that kind of coin would have been Nabakov. And not moving the salary to add him looks like it was definitely the right move in that case. It's not like Vokoun or someone worthwhile was on the open market.

I do understand people's arguments but I think when the worst you have to complain about is a guy like Meszaros making 500-800k too much on our 3rd pairing then maybe its not so bad. This team looks hands down better than last season and I really do believe that the improved defense is an important part of that
That was a hypothetical, I certainly wouldn't spend 5 mill on any goalie at this point, but I think you can still throw around 3-4 and do pretty well.

Referring to your bold statement, I really think that at some point, maybe now, maybe down the road, having Powe and Nodl playing those kinds of minutes is not going to end well.

The Carter line has looked absolutely toothless ever since Powe went back to it, not a coincidence IMO.

Someone like a Langenbrunner would have been a godsend and obviously we didn't have the assets to get him, but still, we could really use that type of player.

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01-07-2011, 08:08 PM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainHawk View Post
Flyers ended up with a defense as dominant as the Phillies pitching staff.
Wow.

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01-07-2011, 08:10 PM
  #70
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Wow.
I know it's tough for you to learn this much about hockey in one night.

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01-07-2011, 08:10 PM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainHawk View Post
People like to say that, but I think it was the lack of credible 3rd D pair that cost us the Cup. Niemi isn't any better than Leighton. Chicago just didn't have to play 4 D-men 25+ minutes each to stay in games, and by the end the Flyers wore out.
No, but he played better in that series.

I'm not sure if you remember, but Niemi flat-out stole Game 2 for them especially the 3rd period which we absolutely dominated and he was also outstanding in Game 6.

Flyers goalies blew Game 1, had a hand in losing Game 2 (awful Eager goal), and then obviously Game 6....

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01-07-2011, 08:11 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by MountainHawk View Post
I know it's tough for you to learn this much about hockey in one night.
You are really ready to throw the Flyers defense into the conversation for best ever?

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01-07-2011, 08:11 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by MountainHawk View Post
People like to say that, but I think it was the lack of credible 3rd D pair that cost us the Cup. Niemi isn't any better than Leighton. Chicago just didn't have to play 4 D-men 25+ minutes each to stay in games, and by the end the Flyers wore out.
yes he is no doubt. He made the big saves when his team needed him to. he didnt give up the bad goal time after time.

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01-07-2011, 08:12 PM
  #74
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No, but he played better in that series.

I'm not sure if you remember, but Niemi flat-out stole Game 2 for them especially the 3rd period which we absolutely dominated and he was also outstanding in Game 6.

Flyers goalies blew Game 1, had a hand in losing Game 2 (awful Eager goal), and then obviously Game 6....
He had a better series, yes. But that series is winnable for the Flyers with Leighton if they had a better 3rd pairing.

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01-07-2011, 08:12 PM
  #75
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Flyers ended up with a defense as dominant as the Phillies pitching staff.

As the Flyers are eliminating Tampa in game 5 of the conference semifinals, let me know what the Lightning gave up.
When Tampa Bay has the money to sign Stamkos... get back to me. Yzerman made out like a bandit in those deals last summer given the position his team was in.

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