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Old
01-07-2011, 03:16 PM
  #51
mcinnesja
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Originally Posted by zeus3007 View Post
A guy being on the ice a lot on a bad team isn't really a positive, when that team is supposed to be very good defensively but is not. Beauchemin is a decent enough d-man, but I stand by my opinion that he is a second pairing guy, a "good at everything but great at nothing" type d-man. That's not what we need for Penner. Think more of a hitter, a shut down guy, preferably one who is younger. Wait, that Schenn, lol.
Oh, I completly agree, he is a very good #3 d, that is currently playing over his head minute wise.

I was just addressing that post of urs about him not being part of the top pairing except for on paper, or him being the lesser d-man on a pairing and being overrated because of it with the ice time stats.

As for it not being a positive about him leading the D in ice time on a bad team, he is known for a few bad plays each game, without a doubt, but he also IMO would cut that down by playing only 20 minutes a night or so in his proper roll.

Our GM, and coach refuse to implement a style other then the run and gun offence with hard forechecking even thou the team is not suited to play that style due to lack of size upfront and lack of cycle game on our top line(hence the fans wanting penner)
Also take into consideration that the goalies for the leafs are struggling but the team itself is currently tie for 9th in shots allowed per game with 28.8, 1st in blocked shots(393), 11th in TkA's, but also being tied for 3rd most in GvA's(310).
Sure those stats dont show that out of the 28.8 shots allowed per game, 15 or so of them are very good chances but our forwards leave or D out ot dry most nights(minus a select few).
Our goalies ALL allow atleast one or 2 bad goals per game(except for maybe reimer in that one start).
With the struggle the leafs have with offence, allowing 1 or 2 bad goals are enough almost nightly to garentee a lose( the 21 goals scored in the last 4 games are a fluke considering the previous 35, lol).

Beauch might not be what u guys need, but I just wanted to defend a him a bit, so he is not really that bad

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Old
01-07-2011, 03:48 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by mcinnesja View Post
Oh, I completly agree, he is a very good #3 d, that is currently playing over his head minute wise.

I was just addressing that post of urs about him not being part of the top pairing except for on paper, or him being the lesser d-man on a pairing and being overrated because of it with the ice time stats.

As for it not being a positive about him leading the D in ice time on a bad team, he is known for a few bad plays each game, without a doubt, but he also IMO would cut that down by playing only 20 minutes a night or so in his proper roll.

Our GM, and coach refuse to implement a style other then the run and gun offence with hard forechecking even thou the team is not suited to play that style due to lack of size upfront and lack of cycle game on our top line(hence the fans wanting penner)
Also take into consideration that the goalies for the leafs are struggling but the team itself is currently tie for 9th in shots allowed per game with 28.8, 1st in blocked shots(393), 11th in TkA's, but also being tied for 3rd most in GvA's(310).
Sure those stats dont show that out of the 28.8 shots allowed per game, 15 or so of them are very good chances but our forwards leave or D out ot dry most nights(minus a select few).
Our goalies ALL allow atleast one or 2 bad goals per game(except for maybe reimer in that one start).
With the struggle the leafs have with offence, allowing 1 or 2 bad goals are enough almost nightly to garentee a lose( the 21 goals scored in the last 4 games are a fluke considering the previous 35, lol).

Beauch might not be what u guys need, but I just wanted to defend a him a bit, so he is not really that bad
Fair enough. I will admit that I don't like Beauchemin, and don't think he would fit well in Edmonton, and most certainly would be playing over his minutes still, but he does have a place in the NHL on many teams second pair. The issue is that we need a guy who might grow to be a top pair player. That isn't Beuchemin.

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Old
01-07-2011, 03:50 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by jfried View Post
Holzer is another potential bottom pair guy with an outside chance at #4 upside.
If we could move out our scrubs like Vandermeer, Strudwick, and Foster, I would maybe have interest in Gunnar or Holzer then. Unfortunately, we won't be able to, and we really do have enough of those bottom pair guys.

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01-07-2011, 03:53 PM
  #54
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Not enough. I like Versteeg and he's going to be a solid 60 point player himself but he's not a power forward which are very rare. Beauchemin doesn't do much for the Oilers, if anything he'd be dealt to a contender. Versteeg plus one of our young d-men(not Schenn obviously) would probably get Edmonton listening. At the same time, I doubt Burke has the balls to get Penner back after ripping that contract apart in the media. Lowe may not be the GM anymore but after Burke's words towards that contract I'd have a hard time believing he'd be willing to admit he was wrong.

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01-07-2011, 03:54 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by zeus3007 View Post
If we could move out our scrubs like Vandermeer, Strudwick, and Foster, I would maybe have interest in Gunnar or Holzer then. Unfortunately, we won't be able to, and we really do have enough of those bottom pair guys.
Vandermeer and Strudwick are probably gone this year.

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Old
01-07-2011, 04:23 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Man Hole Inspector View Post
Hey guy just thought of a trade possibly between Toronto/Edmonton.. I really don't know if it would work for Edmonton but feel free to offer your opinions..

TO TORONTO
Dustin Penner


TO EDMONTON
Kris Versteeg
Francois Beauchemin

Let me know and try not to be too harsh

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Old
01-07-2011, 04:24 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Man Bear Pig View Post
Not enough. I like Versteeg and he's going to be a solid 60 point player himself but he's not a power forward which are very rare. Beauchemin doesn't do much for the Oilers, if anything he'd be dealt to a contender. Versteeg plus one of our young d-men(not Schenn obviously) would probably get Edmonton listening. At the same time, I doubt Burke has the balls to get Penner back after ripping that contract apart in the media. Lowe may not be the GM anymore but after Burke's words towards that contract I'd have a hard time believing he'd be willing to admit he was wrong.
What makes Penner worth so much that a good young D prospect has to be thrown in?

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Old
01-07-2011, 04:32 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Man Hole Inspector View Post
Hey guy just thought of a trade possibly between Toronto/Edmonton.. I really don't know if it would work for Edmonton but feel free to offer your opinions..

TO TORONTO
Dustin Penner


TO EDMONTON
Kris Versteeg
Francois Beauchemin

Let me know and try not to be too harsh
beauchemin would never go to edmonton. no deal

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Old
01-07-2011, 04:36 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
What makes Penner worth so much that a good young D prospect has to be thrown in?
A 30/30 first line power forward coming into his prime is worth quite a bit. Certainly more then Versteeg at this point IMO. For ever Penner in this league there's 5 Versteegs.

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01-07-2011, 04:45 PM
  #60
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HA no.....

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Old
01-07-2011, 10:33 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by jfried View Post
Then you really don't understand Brian Burke. This is a guy that is stubborn as a mule, and makes up ridiculous rules and standards that he persoanally wants to obey even if it costs his team.



Penner had everything to do with the drama of his contract. He wanted to put the squeeze on Burke and therefore signed the offer sheet go to Edmonton.

Furthermore, Burke is one of the most stubborn GMs in the league. This is a guy who doesn't use Toronto's financial pull to sign long term deals because "he doesn't think they are fair". He doesn't ask players to waive NTCs because he thinks it'll make all the difference when he wants to sign more free agents. He traded a 2 firsts and a 2nd for Kessel when he could've offer sheeted him for 1 + 2 + 3, just so the rest of the league would know that he doesn't like offer sheets. He decided not to top 3 protect his draft picks that he traded because it doesn't send the right message to his team.

When a guy like him spends a year saying how overpaid that player was on that current contract, there is zero chance he trades for that player under that same contract.
Which sane person on this overpopulated planet would agree with this hogwash for half a second?

Did anyone blame Vanek when Buffalo had to pony up 7 mill per year?

Did anyone blame Kesler when someone offered him a contract?

How about when the Rangers offered Sakic a contract when he went RFA? Something stupid like 21M over 3 years.

How about...man I forget. Who tried to nab Federov from the wings back in the day?

Nobody ever blames the player.

Who in the right mind would choose 4.5M per year over 3M per year? Just think, if you do a respectable job of managing your funds, 5M will probably supply a generation of your family with all the money they need.

The player is a restricted free agent. Which means he's allowed to accept the best offer given to him. That's his right. You can't blame him for taking advantage of his rights. Wouldn't he be stupid not to?

*Sigh*

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01-07-2011, 10:42 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by thadd View Post
Which sane person on this overpopulated planet would agree with this hogwash for half a second?

Did anyone blame Vanek when Buffalo had to pony up 7 mill per year?

Did anyone blame Kesler when someone offered him a contract?

How about when the Rangers offered Sakic a contract when he went RFA? Something stupid like 21M over 3 years.

How about...man I forget. Who tried to nab Federov from the wings back in the day?

Nobody ever blames the player.

Who in the right mind would choose 4.5M per year over 3M per year? Just think, if you do a respectable job of managing your funds, 5M will probably supply a generation of your family with all the money they need.

The player is a restricted free agent. Which means he's allowed to accept the best offer given to him. That's his right. You can't blame him for taking advantage of his rights. Wouldn't he be stupid not to?

*Sigh*
Trust me he posts crap like this all the time . like he enters the brain of players and Gm's and can read their thoughts And the sad part is he really thinks his made up fantasy's are true.

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Old
01-07-2011, 11:16 PM
  #63
seanlinden
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Originally Posted by thadd View Post
Which sane person on this overpopulated planet would agree with this hogwash for half a second?

Did anyone blame Vanek when Buffalo had to pony up 7 mill per year?

Did anyone blame Kesler when someone offered him a contract?

How about when the Rangers offered Sakic a contract when he went RFA? Something stupid like 21M over 3 years.

How about...man I forget. Who tried to nab Federov from the wings back in the day?

Nobody ever blames the player.

Who in the right mind would choose 4.5M per year over 3M per year? Just think, if you do a respectable job of managing your funds, 5M will probably supply a generation of your family with all the money they need.

The player is a restricted free agent. Which means he's allowed to accept the best offer given to him. That's his right. You can't blame him for taking advantage of his rights. Wouldn't he be stupid not to?

*Sigh*
I repeat.

Burke is one of the most stubborn GMs in the league. This is a guy who doesn't use Toronto's financial pull to sign long term deals because "he doesn't think they are fair". He doesn't ask players to waive NTCs because he thinks it'll make all the difference when he wants to sign more free agents. He traded a 2 firsts and a 2nd for Kessel when he could've offer sheeted him for 1 + 2 + 3, just so the rest of the league would know that he doesn't like offer sheets. He decided not to top 3 protect his draft picks that he traded because it doesn't send the right message to his team.

When a guy like him spends a year saying how overpaid that player was on that current contract, there is zero chance he trades for that player under that same contract.

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Old
01-07-2011, 11:45 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Man Bear Pig View Post
A 30/30 first line power forward coming into his prime is worth quite a bit. Certainly more then Versteeg at this point IMO. For ever Penner in this league there's 5 Versteegs.
He's scored 30 goals/60 points once.

Versteeg has been every bit as good as Penner this season.

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01-08-2011, 01:05 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by jfried View Post
I repeat.

Burke is one of the most stubborn GMs in the league. This is a guy who doesn't use Toronto's financial pull to sign long term deals because "he doesn't think they are fair". He doesn't ask players to waive NTCs because he thinks it'll make all the difference when he wants to sign more free agents. He traded a 2 firsts and a 2nd for Kessel when he could've offer sheeted him for 1 + 2 + 3, just so the rest of the league would know that he doesn't like offer sheets. He decided not to top 3 protect his draft picks that he traded because it doesn't send the right message to his team.

When a guy like him spends a year saying how overpaid that player was on that current contract, there is zero chance he trades for that player under that same contract.
And I repeat, Burrke's issue was that he thought the offer sheet was financially ridiculous. Penner has since proven to be worth his contract. There is no longer an issue, as the contract is no longer way out to lunch dollar wise.

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01-08-2011, 01:06 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
He's scored 30 goals/60 points once.

Versteeg has been every bit as good as Penner this season.
Penner has been very good this year, and even if your statement were true, the Oilers have no need for another midget depth player, so Penner has a lot more value than him. The reason Penner would be of interest to Toronto is the same reason why he would command way more than Versteeg in a deal, he scores and has size.

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01-08-2011, 01:13 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by zeus3007 View Post
And I repeat, Burrke's issue was that he thought the offer sheet was financially ridiculous. Penner has since proven to be worth his contract. There is no longer an issue, as the contract is no longer way out to lunch dollar wise.
Yeah, and it's still the contract that Burke spent the better part of a year ripping on.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see the Leafs trade for Dustin Penner.... but I also realize that it's just not going to happen.

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Old
01-08-2011, 01:20 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Man Hole Inspector View Post
With Mike Brown coming back in a matter of days our lines look like:

Kulemin-Grabovski-MacArthur
Armstrong-Bozak-Kessel
Versteeg-Boyce-Brown
Sjostrom-Brent-Orr
i say keep versteeg and armstrong together. They share great chemistry. That way we have 3 scoring lines- it has been working as of late.

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Old
01-08-2011, 01:53 AM
  #69
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Originally Posted by jfried View Post
Yeah, and it's still the contract that Burke spent the better part of a year ripping on.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see the Leafs trade for Dustin Penner.... but I also realize that it's just not going to happen.
Before Penner had proven that he was worth it. He has done that now. Go back and listen to the interviews with Burke, he never said that he thought Penner was a bad player, he said he doesn't believe in paying players based on potential. Penner was given that contract based on his potential, but he is now earning that money. Your reasoning is bs. And the trade won't happen because the Leafs won't (or can't) offer what the Oilers need for Penner.

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Old
01-08-2011, 08:22 AM
  #70
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I could see the Oilers taking a guy like Beauchemin, but certainly not for Penner, and it's unlikely with Burke as the Leafs GM. Schenn is about all the Oilers would want from the Leafs, so maybe Penner and a 2nd for Schenn, something like that.
try being a little more realistic there man. We could get a better forward then penner for Schenn

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Old
01-08-2011, 08:58 AM
  #71
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Originally Posted by jfried View Post
Then you really don't understand Brian Burke. This is a guy that is stubborn as a mule, and makes up ridiculous rules and standards that he persoanally wants to obey even if it costs his team.



Penner had everything to do with the drama of his contract. He wanted to put the squeeze on Burke and therefore signed the offer sheet go to Edmonton.

Furthermore, Burke is one of the most stubborn GMs in the league. This is a guy who doesn't use Toronto's financial pull to sign long term deals because "he doesn't think they are fair". He doesn't ask players to waive NTCs because he thinks it'll make all the difference when he wants to sign more free agents. He traded a 2 firsts and a 2nd for Kessel when he could've offer sheeted him for 1 + 2 + 3, just so the rest of the league would know that he doesn't like offer sheets. He decided not to top 3 protect his draft picks that he traded because it doesn't send the right message to his team.

When a guy like him spends a year saying how overpaid that player was on that current contract, there is zero chance he trades for that player under that same contract.
Sorry, that is wrong.

He didn't "protect" the picks, because Chia wouldn't have accepted that... Not "to send a message to his team". He also traded the two 1st rounders and 2nd, because there was a legit fear that Chia would match any offer sheet sent to Kessel... Burke had to pay what Chia wanted... and he did just that.

However in regards to Penner, you can't blame the player for signing an RFA sheet... I mean look at it this way...

I am not sure what you do for a living, but let's say one of the competitors of the company you work for offered you a 50% more salary than your current company pays you\offered you... your current company has the option to match that raise, but chooses not to... are you supposed to turn around and say "Okay, I will be loyal and stick with you guys and forgoe the extra millions of dollars I will make the next few years"... I certainly wouldn't, and neither would you.

All that being said, I doubt Burke has much interest in Penner, he is too inconsistent.

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Old
01-08-2011, 09:20 AM
  #72
thadd
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Originally Posted by newoilsburnsclean View Post
Trust me he posts crap like this all the time . like he enters the brain of players and Gm's and can read their thoughts And the sad part is he really thinks his made up fantasy's are true.
*sigh*

Well I guess I better stop beating this dead horse, then.

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