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Montreal - Calgary (Deadline)

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Old
01-09-2011, 08:11 PM
  #1
BigHabs
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Montreal - Calgary (Deadline)

I put in a deal in the Anton Babchuk to Montreal thread. A few people said it was a fair deal and they would do it. From both ends.

Now the deal would only be done, if Calgary was not going to be making the playoffs.

Calgary would likely be looking at young prospects as they would maybe be looking at a rebuild. Flames fans on here said they are looking for forward depth as they have a lack of it.

Montreal

Maxwell
Kristo
3rd round pick

for

Calgary

Glencross
Babchuk

With Gorges being out now, the Habs need an extra dman. Picard is not a fulltime #6 dman. He is slotted in there now because of the injury. I think bringing in Babchuk would allow Picard to be the #7 dman. Glencross has size and the potential to play top 6 minutes if need be. Kind of what the Habs are looking for.

Kostitsyn Plekanec Cammalleri
Pacioretty Gomez Gionta
Glencross Eller Pouliot
Moen Halpern Darche

ex. Desharnais/Pyatt

Hamrlik Babchuk
Spacek Wisniewski
Gill Subban

ex. Weber/Picard

I don't see Montreal going for any big names at the deadline. I think they will be looking for depth players line in this deal, not too expensive and don't have to sell the farm to acquire them. I think Glencross could help us in different areas as we need a forward who can jump up if need be if the top 6 need help.

What do you think?

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Old
01-09-2011, 08:31 PM
  #2
SaintMorose
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If we're missing the playoffs I'd send

GlenX and Babchuk

for

Kisto + 2nd

no need for Maxwell

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Old
01-09-2011, 08:34 PM
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintMorose View Post
If we're missing the playoffs I'd send

GlenX and Babchuk

for

Kisto + 2nd

no need for Maxwell
Habs don't have a 2nd this year. Any interest in bringing back Dustin Boyd? He's tearing it out in the AHL. For whatever reason, he's in Jacques Martin's dog house (like many others or so it seems).

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Old
01-10-2011, 02:21 AM
  #4
DropIt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintMorose View Post
If we're missing the playoffs I'd send

GlenX and Babchuk

for

Kisto + 2nd

no need for Maxwell
Wrong. The Flames could use any offensive prospects we could get our hands on at this point

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Old
01-10-2011, 03:50 AM
  #5
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I would rather move Babchuk and Glencross separately and get a couple 2nd round picks in return...

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01-10-2011, 07:26 AM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunatik View Post
I would rather move Babchuk and Glencross separately and get a couple 2nd round picks in return...
I see what you are saying but...

Maxwell could make your team for sure next year and has good offensive talent. I am assuming like 90% sure that Conroy will not be re-signed along with Morrison. That is 2 center slots open.

I think if Feaster is in charge for next season. I think bringing in Maxwell who is 22 and almost a PPG player in the AHL would be a perfect fit for you. Even if Calgary was to make the playoffs they are going to be doing some major reconstruction of the team IMO.

Maxwell is NHL ready and still really young. You could go get a second and it could only work out in say another 2-4 years.

Kristo is already on his way in development and is looking to be a really good prospect. He was a 2nd rounder. By the time he hits the NHL, it would have been probably 3 - 4 years since drafter. He would be ahead of schedule than the other 2nd round pick you would have to wait for to develope.

You would also get a 3rd round pick so you wouldn't be empty handed come draft time. 1 player 22 - NHL ready, 1 player 20 - to be a good offensive player, A 3rd round pick.

Its seems reasonable and exactly what the Flames will be wanting, once they rebuild, and Flames fans say you guys are already weak in forward prospects, this could help bulk it back up again.

Iginla Stajan Hagman
Jokinen Backlund Bourque
Kotalik Maxwell ???
Moss Kostopoulos Jackman


Last edited by BigHabs: 01-10-2011 at 07:33 AM.
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Old
01-10-2011, 08:18 AM
  #7
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ok let me break this up and reply to different parts separately...

Quote:
Originally Posted by gamblor506 View Post
I see what you are saying but...

Maxwell could make your team for sure next year and has good offensive talent. I am assuming like 90% sure that Conroy will not be re-signed along with Morrison. That is 2 center slots open.
you assume right in the likelyhood of Conroy and Morrison not being back, I will give you that... however you fail to realize that Conroy hasn't been playing and one of Morrison or Backlund has been playing the wing all season... and then there is also the slim possibility of Langkow returning

Quote:
Originally Posted by gamblor506 View Post
I think if Feaster is in charge for next season. I think bringing in Maxwell who is 22 and almost a PPG player in the AHL would be a perfect fit for you. Even if Calgary was to make the playoffs they are going to be doing some major reconstruction of the team IMO.

Maxwell is NHL ready and still really young. You could go get a second and it could only work out in say another 2-4 years.
ok so maybe Maxwell is NHL or close to it... but if we are rebuilding wouldn't it more sense to get a guy where we have him through his entry level contract and not acquire him 5 years before he can become a UFA?... Maxwell is a decent AHL player as you can see in his numbers... but at the NHL level he still have yet to crack the score-sheet in 20 games... Maxwell to me is to the age where he's not even really a prospect anymore... 3rd pro season, final year of his ELC and appears to have slipped down the habs depth chart behind Desharnais?... even with Lapierre being moved and Boyd being demoted he couldn't get the call up and Desharnais was called up... that tells me he isn't as NHL ready as you proclaim him to be

Quote:
Originally Posted by gamblor506 View Post
Kristo is already on his way in development and is looking to be a really good prospect. He was a 2nd rounder. By the time he hits the NHL, it would have been probably 3 - 4 years since drafter. He would be ahead of schedule than the other 2nd round pick you would have to wait for to develope.
Yes Kristo is a good prospect, I will give you that... and I would trade Glencross for Kristo (you can even toss Boyd in the deal too if you want to get rid of him)...

Quote:
Originally Posted by gamblor506 View Post
You would also get a 3rd round pick so you wouldn't be empty handed come draft time. 1 player 22 - NHL ready, 1 player 20 - to be a good offensive player, A 3rd round pick.
and what are the odds a 3rd round pick goes on to a decent NHL career?... sure you may end up with a Plekanec... but for every Plekanec take in the 3rd round there is probably 15 Martin Hohenbergers

Quote:
Originally Posted by gamblor506 View Post
Its seems reasonable and exactly what the Flames will be wanting, once they rebuild, and Flames fans say you guys are already weak in forward prospects, this could help bulk it back up again.
Kristo helps our prospects up front yes... but we already have a handful of guys with the same potential as Maxwell... one thing the Flames haven't had issues developing is 3rd and 4th liners

Quote:
Originally Posted by gamblor506 View Post
Iginla Stajan Hagman
Jokinen Backlund Bourque
Kotalik Maxwell ???
Moss Kostopoulos Jackman
Maxwell will not be strong enough at the NHL level to force Jokinen to the wing... the only way Jokinen end up on the wing next year is if Langkow has a miraculous comeback... our lines assuming all those guys are there are more likely to be...

_______ - Jokinen - Iginla
Hagman - Stajan - Bourque
_______ - Backlund - Kotalik
Kostopoulos - Moss - Jackman
Ivanans

I'm not saying that team will be any better... but I really don't see a place for Maxwell next season... and with Wahl and Reinhart coming up through the ranks it makes it just a little easier to say no to Maxwell when we can get a 2nd and draft a player who fits our needs a little better

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Old
01-10-2011, 08:47 AM
  #8
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I just think Wisniewski makes Babchuk redundant. I'd be looking at a different type of d-man if I was going to add another one. And I think Picard, over the course of a whole season *is* a capable #6 guy. Fans just sometimes set their expectations too high for such a limited role. Picard was solid the first 30 games. He's been a bit rougher lately. But all in all, he can handle his role on the team. And we've got Weber with similar capability too.

I like Glencross, though. With Lapierre traded, he'd be a good player to bring in. I really liked Maxwell in the pre-season, and I think he's equivalent value to a high-end 2nd round pick, but it's hard to figure out how to work him onto our team looking forward, so if it was Maxwell and maybe a laer pick for Glencross, that'd be ok with me.

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Old
01-10-2011, 08:50 AM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
I just think Wisniewski makes Babchuk redundant. I'd be looking at a different type of d-man if I was going to add another one. And I think Picard, over the course of a whole season *is* a capable #6 guy. Fans just sometimes set their expectations too high for such a limited role. Picard was solid the first 30 games. He's been a bit rougher lately. But all in all, he can handle his role on the team. And we've got Weber with similar capability too.

I like Glencross, though. With Lapierre traded, he'd be a good player to bring in. I really liked Maxwell in the pre-season, and I think he's equivalent value to a high-end 2nd round pick, but it's hard to figure out how to work him onto our team looking forward, so if it was Maxwell and maybe a laer pick for Glencross, that'd be ok with me.
your first paragraph just brings up Regehr to the Habs ideas...

the 2nd part is fair... but I would prefer a 2nd or a better prospect than Maxwell... would you do Glencross for Kristo?...a s said above you can toss in Boyd if the Habs want to dump an extra body

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01-10-2011, 10:48 AM
  #10
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I like Glencross, but he's a bottom-6 player who is a UFA at season's end...

not enough value, nor does he fill a big enough need to warrant trading away a pretty solid offensive prospect (Kristo) for.

Glencross for Maxwell would be more reasonable value, but I could see the flames preferring to get a 2nd rd pick instead (though personally, i think they'd be better served opting for a prospect like Maxwell as a return instead of the pick... Maxwell is pretty much ready for NHL duty, and if they do go the re-build rout, he'd likely be a strong bet to make their club next season).

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Old
01-10-2011, 10:51 AM
  #11
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Originally Posted by DropIt View Post
Wrong. The Flames could use any offensive prospects we could get our hands on at this point
Centre's with limited offensive potential aren't exactly a weak point for us with Wahl and Nemisz arguably both better prospects (I'd say this even if Nemisz moves to the wing permanently).

Kisto does add to a point of weakness for us and I think most Flames fans would would happy to trade 1 for 1 Glenny or Babchuk for him.

Though seeing as Montreal lacks a 2nd and there isn't enough value going their way to warrant a first the original proposal may work. I'm sure we wouldn't mind taking Boyd back to replace Conroy as a 13th forward if the Habs are looking to dump a contract.

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01-10-2011, 11:09 AM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintMorose View Post
Centre's with limited offensive potential aren't exactly a weak point for us with Wahl and Nemisz arguably both better prospects (I'd say this even if Nemisz moves to the wing permanently).

Kisto does add to a point of weakness for us and I think most Flames fans would would happy to trade 1 for 1 Glenny or Babchuk for him.

Though seeing as Montreal lacks a 2nd and there isn't enough value going their way to warrant a first the original proposal may work. I'm sure we wouldn't mind taking Boyd back to replace Conroy as a 13th forward if the Habs are looking to dump a contract.
I hope Kristo is a keeper from the Habs POV. Maxwell is definitely more redundant based on our depth at center.

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01-10-2011, 11:37 AM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunatik View Post
your first paragraph just brings up Regehr to the Habs ideas...
And I would take Regehr on the Habs... except for my perception of what the cost would likely be. To me, the extra defenseman is still a luxury item/insurance policy for the Habs at this point. At a low cost, why not get it. At the cost of a Regehr... not really interested in pursuing that. But I definitely would prefer the luxury of a Regehr-style defenseman over a Babchuk-style one.
Quote:
the 2nd part is fair... but I would prefer a 2nd or a better prospect than Maxwell... would you do Glencross for Kristo?...a s said above you can toss in Boyd if the Habs want to dump an extra body
Well, I'm not really sure what we have in Kristo. He started this year so slow and is on fire now... but still has a lot of time ahead of him before a better picture of his pro potential starts to emerge. I will not be the least bit surprised if Maxwell ends up being the better NHLer. Nor surprised if it turns out the opposite. Maxwell is more "safe" right now, since he has developed along a relatively linear track from his draft, to the point where I think an NHL team could slide him in right now, and he would be ready to start his NHL apprenticeship, at least. Probably minimal/no contribution at the NHL level right now, but at least he's close enough to try.

Whereas we don't really know if Kristo will ever even be close enough. But anyway, it's all about timing. Kristo may not be the better prospect or player, but we have time to wait on him. Maxwell's ELC expires at the end of this year, and it's time for him to move up. Or move on. We don't have a readily defined roster spot for him to move up into. So I'd much rather keep Kristo, even if he's not the better overall player/prospect. Ultimately, I'd pass on Glencross for Kristo. Or Glencross for a 2nd if we had a 2nd (we don't). Maxwell has panned out par for the value of a 2nd IMHO, but his value to us is dinged by our current organizational depth chart... he has to move up next year, but at the same time we're locked down for years with Gomez/Pleks and then Eller/Desharnais are ahead of Maxwell at the moment too. Hence he becomes expendable where Kristo isn't.

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01-10-2011, 11:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
But anyway, it's all about timing. Kristo may not be the better prospect or player, but we have time to wait on him. Maxwell's ELC expires at the end of this year, and it's time for him to move up. Or move on. We don't have a readily defined roster spot for him to move up into. So I'd much rather keep Kristo, even if he's not the better overall player/prospect.
I completely agree, this is the most important factor from a Habs POV. Eller and Desharnais are all higher priorities than Maxwell at this point, and I think there is a good chance Maxwell would be claimed if placed on waivers next season.

That said, I think Glencross would be a great fit for the playoff run in Montreal. I'd be willing to part with Kristo if that's who the Flames preferred, or maybe White.

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01-10-2011, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Roulin View Post
I completely agree, this is the most important factor from a Habs POV. Eller and Desharnais are all higher priorities than Maxwell at this point, and I think there is a good chance Maxwell would be claimed if placed on waivers next season.

That said, I think Glencross would be a great fit for the playoff run in Montreal. I'd be willing to part with Kristo if that's who the Flames preferred, or maybe White.
Part with Kristo for Glencross? Really?

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01-10-2011, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Dirty Danglez View Post
Part with Kristo for Glencross? Really?
IMO, the Habs' group of forwards isn't very good. Glencross would be an upgrade on Moen, Darche or Pyatt in the bottom 6. He can play in the top 6 if injuries hit. He would benefit from moving to the weaker conference. And there don't appear to be many good forward rentals available this year.

The Habs don't have much offensive high end in our prospect pool. But, we have a lot of two way, defensively responsible forward prospects. That's how I see Kristo's potential. I think Leblanc, Bournival, Nattinen and Dumont are all promising in somewhat similar roles.


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Old
01-10-2011, 06:28 PM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
And I would take Regehr on the Habs... except for my perception of what the cost would likely be. To me, the extra defenseman is still a luxury item/insurance policy for the Habs at this point. At a low cost, why not get it. At the cost of a Regehr... not really interested in pursuing that. But I definitely would prefer the luxury of a Regehr-style defenseman over a Babchuk-style one.

Well, I'm not really sure what we have in Kristo. He started this year so slow and is on fire now... but still has a lot of time ahead of him before a better picture of his pro potential starts to emerge. I will not be the least bit surprised if Maxwell ends up being the better NHLer. Nor surprised if it turns out the opposite. Maxwell is more "safe" right now, since he has developed along a relatively linear track from his draft, to the point where I think an NHL team could slide him in right now, and he would be ready to start his NHL apprenticeship, at least. Probably minimal/no contribution at the NHL level right now, but at least he's close enough to try.

Whereas we don't really know if Kristo will ever even be close enough. But anyway, it's all about timing. Kristo may not be the better prospect or player, but we have time to wait on him. Maxwell's ELC expires at the end of this year, and it's time for him to move up. Or move on. We don't have a readily defined roster spot for him to move up into. So I'd much rather keep Kristo, even if he's not the better overall player/prospect. Ultimately, I'd pass on Glencross for Kristo. Or Glencross for a 2nd if we had a 2nd (we don't). Maxwell has panned out par for the value of a 2nd IMHO, but his value to us is dinged by our current organizational depth chart... he has to move up next year, but at the same time we're locked down for years with Gomez/Pleks and then Eller/Desharnais are ahead of Maxwell at the moment too. Hence he becomes expendable where Kristo isn't.
I see your point and for the Flames its a similar train of thought... we are very weak on the right side for our prospects (HF lists only Nemisz, Ferland and Bjorklund I think... Nemisz the only with strong NHL potential)... and plus with a possible rebuild in our midst I would rather take the chance on Kristo becoming the better player than getting a guy like Maxwell who I think most will agree with will be a 3rd line center for most of his career... the unknown is rikier, but you have to take a chance when you rebuild

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Old
01-10-2011, 06:42 PM
  #18
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personally i would NEVER do Kristo for Glencross

Maxwell has no future in montreal...hes gone at deadline or offseason

pretty sure he gets shipped with a 3rd rounder at deadline for a veteran,its what we do best ne ways

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