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Thomas Vanek?

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Old
01-10-2011, 01:13 PM
  #26
KrugLife
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I'd love to get him on the Bruins, but definitely not for Seguin and Lucic. that's LOL material.

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01-10-2011, 01:13 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by struckbyaparkedcar View Post
Weren't you the guy who called his four goal performance against Ottawa "meaningless" despite the fact that Buffalo hadn't beaten them all season? And then really shut up about Vanek in the playoffs? Roy's on that list because he's consistently been solid for a long time. I'm sure Gomez suddenly became worth his contract now because of some arbitrary look at things.
Right, highlight the one guy who seems a bit out of place on the list, and ignore the other names like Malkin, Crosby, Ovechkin, and the Sedins. Talk about arbitrary. Besides, Gomez is an excellent set-up man, he just happens to be paid $2.5 mil too much, and for a couple years too long.

I simply find it hilarious that we still see Sabres fans posting things like "Vanek needs a real center," and "Vanek is our best offensive player," when the not-a-first-line-center (Roy) has led the team in scoring for three straight seasons, and was about to make it four in a landslide this season.

I think what we should be trying to do is move Vanek for a young center, and get Roy a wing who shows up for more than three or four games each month and then goes missing.

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01-10-2011, 01:19 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Seguination View Post
I'd love to get him on the Bruins, but definitely not for Seguin and Lucic. that's LOL material.
While I agree that may be overpayment, a huge overpayment is going to be required for Buffalo to keep him in the division. Any GM worth his salt isn't going to give Vanek away to a division rival and give him the opportunity to hurt the Sabres six times per season. Unless the return looks too good to be true, he's not staying in the division.

I think LA is a great destination for him, and a great place for the Sabres to send him.

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01-10-2011, 01:20 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Zip15 View Post
Right, highlight the one guy who seems a bit out of place on the list, and ignore the other names like Malkin, Crosby, Ovechkin, and the Sedins. Talk about arbitrary. Besides, Gomez is an excellent set-up man, he just happens to be paid $2.5 mil too much, and for a couple years too long.

I simply find it hilarious that we still see Sabres fans posting things like "Vanek needs a real center," and "Vanek is our best offensive player," when the not-a-first-line-center (Roy) has led the team in scoring for three straight seasons, and was about to make it four in a landslide this season.

I think what we should be trying to do is move Vanek for a young center, and get Roy a wing who shows up for more than three or four games each month and then goes missing.
Wait, so pointing out the other outlier in that group makes no sense? Gotcha.

I'm as on board for Vanek-for-Schenn as everybody, and I like Vanek, but saying that he shows up 3-4 times a month is absolutely laughable. Especially since you're rushing to defend a guy who didn't show up at all in the most important month of the season last year.

Also, Vanek had a better points per game average than Roy in 08/09, despite playing two fewer minutes at even strength and playing like 5-6 more games with Dominic Moore as his center.

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01-10-2011, 01:32 PM
  #30
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Vanek has shown the ability to take over games this year on a semi-consistent basis, something we haven't seen out of him, well, ever.

He's not scoring on tips and rebounds in front of the net--he's using his size, hands and gorgeous shot (whether it's his quick release or absolute blast, his shot always seems to give goalies trouble).

Contract and past be damned...he's playing like a superstar, and I'd rather have him here if he's going to live up to his potential.

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01-10-2011, 01:33 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by struckbyaparkedcar View Post
Wait, so pointing out the other outlier in that group makes no sense? Gotcha.

I'm as on board for Vanek-for-Schenn as everybody, and I like Vanek, but saying that he shows up 3-4 times a month is absolutely laughable. Especially since you're rushing to defend a guy who didn't show up at all in the most important month of the season last year.[

Also, Vanek had a better points per game average than Roy in 08/09, despite playing two fewer minutes at even strength and playing like 5-6 more games with Dominic Moore as his center.
Saying he shows up 3-4 times per month was used to demonstrate his patented prolonged stretches where he makes absolutely no impact on a game. You cannot deny his propensity for prolonged slumps. And when he's not scoring, he just doesn't impact the game. He doesn't make players around him better. He's not especially good defensively. When he's not scoring, he doesn't deserve ice time.

Roy's a better player on a better contract. I'm fine with Vanek sticking around, but I think it's laughable when others demean Roy in an effort to bolster Vanek's value.

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01-10-2011, 03:12 PM
  #32
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If the Sabres have a chance to deal Vanek to the Kings for a package involving Schenn, it would be a major score for them.

This year is probably lost with the Roy injury, but 2 years down the road with Kassian, Schenn, Myers, and a new owner who would hopefully be slightly more agressive in the UFA department could make for a very quick and exciting turnaround.

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01-10-2011, 03:42 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by pete3589 View Post
If the Sabres have a chance to deal Vanek to the Kings for a package involving Schenn, it would be a major score for them.

This year is probably lost with the Roy injury, but 2 years down the road with Kassian, Schenn, Myers, and a new owner who would hopefully be slightly more agressive in the UFA department could make for a very quick and exciting turnaround.
I'm not as enamored with Schenn as everyone else seems to be, but I'll admit that it might just be a case of "everyone on HFB is crazy about him, so he's probably not as good as they say."

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01-10-2011, 04:06 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Seguination View Post
I'd love to get him on the Bruins, but definitely not for Seguin and Lucic. that's LOL material.
What about one of Bergeron/Krejci and Lucic for Vanek +?

Realise it won't happen but value wise?

Say what you want about Vanek, but with the right players and the right system, he is unplayable.

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01-10-2011, 04:13 PM
  #35
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Just my two cents - Roy is a #1 Center, and it isn't his fault that Vanek isn't a consistent 45-50 goal scorer. BUT Vanek has never had a real RW. He's had Drew freaking Stafford. So yeah...on a legitimate 1st line in the NHL, Vanek would be a 45 goal, PPG player.

And seeing as he's Buffalo's only real goal scorer, it will take an overpayment. Schenn + 1st +? is intriguing.

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01-10-2011, 04:13 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowley Birkin View Post
What about one of Bergeron/Krejci and Lucic for Vanek +?

Realise it won't happen but value wise?

Say what you want about Vanek, but with the right players and the right system, he is unplayable.
Mmm...that's interesting. I would take that.

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01-10-2011, 04:24 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Timbo Slice View Post
Mmm...that's interesting. I would take that.
Obviously the 'plus' would have to be something of reasonably high value - something Boston would want.

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01-10-2011, 04:25 PM
  #38
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I don't think it's Roys fault in any way... it's what makes him who he is....but Vanek scores less primarily because Roy is not a playmaker, and Vanek gets parked in front of the net on the PP. Vanek doesn't get a point every time they score on a PP, like a player like Roy does just for having touched the puck. Roy gets a boatload of "system" assists, and its used as a negative on Vanek unfairly. I wish Vanek got an assist everytime his work in front of the net led to a goal... it'd be a totally different story.

Vanek in LA's system with a pass first center like Kopitar... it would be filthy. I'd put money on Vanek being a .50 goals per game forward on a line with Kopitar. And with guys like Stoll their to take the "front of the net" role on the PP... Vanek would light it up

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01-10-2011, 04:54 PM
  #39
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Some of the comments by the posters in this thread make it sound like he's an investments that require secondary investments just to bear fruit, which is a bit worrisome. Cap hits really add up in a hurry so if he really needs a center of a particular caliber to get him going offensively then it might be something to be worried about.

I think ideally you want to get a guy who can score regardless of the teammates they are playing with, especially when you're making a commitment to a player with the kind of cap figure that he does.

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01-10-2011, 05:04 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by CPhoenixM View Post
Mike Fisher + Kuba + 2nd rd 2011


That's really not close.

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01-10-2011, 05:09 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Primakov! View Post
Some of the comments by the posters in this thread make it sound like he's an investments that require secondary investments just to bear fruit, which is a bit worrisome. Cap hits really add up in a hurry so if he really needs a center of a particular caliber to get him going offensively then it might be something to be worried about.

I think ideally you want to get a guy who can score regardless of the teammates they are playing with, especially when you're making a commitment to a player with the kind of cap figure that he does.
You already have the investment in Kopitar... putting two good investments together is not a bad thing. As adding an investment that may require other investment is not a bad thing, when you already have the other pieces in place.

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01-10-2011, 06:16 PM
  #42
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How about something based around LA sending Schenn and Smyth and Buffalo sending Vanek (as a start to the deal)

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01-10-2011, 06:18 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by The Wheeled Winger View Post
How about something based around LA sending Schenn and Smyth and Buffalo sending Vanek (as a start to the deal)
Smyth's not waiving to come to Buffalo so no

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01-10-2011, 09:26 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
You already have the investment in Kopitar... putting two good investments together is not a bad thing. As adding an investment that may require other investment is not a bad thing, when you already have the other pieces in place.
Putting two good investments together is not a bad thing, no, but what the Kings have right now is one investment locked down at center with Anze Kopitar and another that is vesting in Drew Doughty on defense.

The Kings are not an organization that is going to spend up to the upper limit of the salary cap; it's simply not a part of the philosophy of this regime. While they may reside in what is considered to be a big market they're (for the most part) subscribers to the nickel and dime strategy of management when they can get away with it.

Dean Lombardi penny pinches in a lot of areas on the roster so that he can afford to splurge with luxury items like a Ryan Smyth that he values for traits on top of offensive numbers like character and leadership.

Then you consider Lombardi's publicly stated team building philosophy:

1) There are very few wingers in the game that have the exceptional qualities to be worthy of large investments.
2) That money is better spent on a center that can make his wingers stronger.
3) That a defender that can make the forwards in front of him and his defense partner better is worth even more.

It's just my opinion, but I don't see a good match here between the Sabres and the Kings. I don't think it follows the usually exhibited tendencies of the present management team and the money is going to go towards a player like Drew Doughty and they're going to simply pocket the savings from not spending up to the cap threshold.

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01-10-2011, 10:11 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Primakov! View Post
Putting two good investments together is not a bad thing, no, but what the Kings have right now is one investment locked down at center with Anze Kopitar and another that is vesting in Drew Doughty on defense.

The Kings are not an organization that is going to spend up to the upper limit of the salary cap; it's simply not a part of the philosophy of this regime. While they may reside in what is considered to be a big market they're (for the most part) subscribers to the nickel and dime strategy of management when they can get away with it.

Dean Lombardi penny pinches in a lot of areas on the roster so that he can afford to splurge with luxury items like a Ryan Smyth that he values for traits on top of offensive numbers like character and leadership.

Then you consider Lombardi's publicly stated team building philosophy:

1) There are very few wingers in the game that have the exceptional qualities to be worthy of large investments.
2) That money is better spent on a center that can make his wingers stronger.
3) That a defender that can make the forwards in front of him and his defense partner better is worth even more.

It's just my opinion, but I don't see a good match here between the Sabres and the Kings. I don't think it follows the usually exhibited tendencies of the present management team and the money is going to go towards a player like Drew Doughty and they're going to simply pocket the savings from not spending up to the cap threshold.
Yea... how quickly we forget just last offseason, and the pursuit of Kovy...

Vanek's contract would do nothing to inhibit the Kings ability to re-sign core players.

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