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01-11-2011, 12:03 PM
  #126
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Originally Posted by bubba5 View Post
While I agree we need to play the kids, the playoffs are a different animal and you do need some veteran presence in the room to keep things running smoothly.
Sorry couldn't resist...but isn't that why people keep saying we need to keep Drury?

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01-11-2011, 12:03 PM
  #127
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Originally Posted by nyrangersfan1416 View Post
He's got a 3.6M hit and I think is signed through next year. He seems refreshed from the Flames games I've watched this year (still playing that nasty game, and playing very well in the defensive zone), but it's the 2nd year on the contract that makes him an unattractive option.
He is only 32, so not over the hill yet. If we trade Gilroy away Sarich could be a good vet to have.

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01-11-2011, 12:05 PM
  #128
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Wow. Well that makes a rental relatively easy then, doesnt it.

Kaberle would be a great pickup for this team. So would Richards. Question is, how much would we have to give.
IIRC Burke last season Burke's asking price for Kaberle was what he had to pay to get Pronger...NHL claiber player, high level prospect and a #1, or something along those lines

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01-11-2011, 12:34 PM
  #129
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I dont really get this, everyone crys for the youth movement, we get it. Sather takes the next step in ridding us of roszival whose stock was inevitably going down, dumping a bad contract and an aging vet for scoring depth and a potentially good player. So now rosziv is gone and so is his cap and now were crying for anotherveteran nobody who can't cut it with the jackets, panthers etc, I really don't get it it's like we want roszival back because his cap was pretty similar to any veteran guy were going to get back in a trade. Rather than faze out roszival trade him at the deadline or draft he did it now, speeding up the process and spearheading the youth movement on defense. Is it that much of a risk to play with
Staal-girardi
Sauer-eminger
Gilroy-mcd
Until del zotto comes back? They've been doing fine recently; a veteran isn't a must have, the defense isn't going to go to shambles because roszival and his leadership is gone. And does anybody even know to what extent he was a leader? Just being around for a while and being one of the older guys doesn't make anybody a leader IMO. I think staal,girardi and eminger have enough presence in the locker room amongst the defensive players, but maybe that's just me.
There was already talk of Sather looking for a left handed dman BEFORE we traded Roszival. I have no problem with letting the kids play for now, but that is a very inexperienced blue line. Other than Staal, Girardi and Eminger, none of our dmen have playoff experience, and Eminger has only played 5 playoff games getting 3rd pair minutes with washington 3 years ago.

Sauer and McD are rookies. Gilroy and MDZ are 2nd year players who have both struggled at times. Eminger has played well, but lets not forget that there's a reason we got him for Aaron Voros.

Staal and Girardi can't play 30 minutes every game, which means others' ice time will have to increase. Will Eminger play as well getting 20 minutes a night instead of 16? Will Sauer? At some point, we are going to need a vet dman. If not now, then for the stretch run and the playoffs.

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01-11-2011, 12:51 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
There was already talk of Sather looking for a left handed dman BEFORE we traded Roszival. I have no problem with letting the kids play for now, but that is a very inexperienced blue line. Other than Staal, Girardi and Eminger, none of our dmen have playoff experience, and Eminger has only played 5 playoff games getting 3rd pair minutes with washington 3 years ago.

Sauer and McD are rookies. Gilroy and MDZ are 2nd year players who have both struggled at times. Eminger has played well, but lets not forget that there's a reason we got him for Aaron Voros.

Staal and Girardi can't play 30 minutes every game, which means others' ice time will have to increase. Will Eminger play as well getting 20 minutes a night instead of 16? Will Sauer? At some point, we are going to need a vet dman. If not now, then for the stretch run and the playoffs.
Totally agree.

The "Everyone wanted youth and now that you have it you're still complaining" argument is a little shortsighted. When you are talking about defense its a lot different. Up front we are very young and you can live with the growing pains there to a certain degree.

But when you have a team that has shown some guts this year, can put the puck in the net, have a go-to forward and a solid goaltender - theres a possibility you can make some noise in the playoffs. On defense you have to give yourself a nice balance. Have guys like Sauer and Eminger impressed? Sure thing. Im a huge Sauer fan. Could they play more minutes? Sure. But like you said, you cant have Staal and Girardi on the ice for half of the game and expect to survive 2 rounds in the playoffs. Gilroy has found some confidence lately and that great but lets not forget it wasnt long ago when he was sitting in the press box for a good amount of time. DZ is still trying to find his game as well and is still very young. And unfortunately, don't forget that a guy like Sauer has battled injuries his entire career.

A veteran defenseman would be a welcome addition to this squad. Regardless of how well the Rangers youth back there is performing. If you have the room to get one, and they do, then getting the right one could be a pretty significant boost to this teams chances of getting by what will probably be a top 4 seed in the first round.

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01-11-2011, 01:11 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
There was already talk of Sather looking for a left handed dman BEFORE we traded Roszival. I have no problem with letting the kids play for now, but that is a very inexperienced blue line. Other than Staal, Girardi and Eminger, none of our dmen have playoff experience, and Eminger has only played 5 playoff games getting 3rd pair minutes with washington 3 years ago.

Sauer and McD are rookies. Gilroy and MDZ are 2nd year players who have both struggled at times. Eminger has played well, but lets not forget that there's a reason we got him for Aaron Voros.

Staal and Girardi can't play 30 minutes every game, which means others' ice time will have to increase. Will Eminger play as well getting 20 minutes a night instead of 16? Will Sauer? At some point, we are going to need a vet dman. If not now, then for the stretch run and the playoffs.
They played 30 minutes against Dallas due to two factors - 1) it was McDonagh's debut, and 2) it was OT. they next night in STL, both players were under 28 minutes. Sauer started the year getinng, what, 10-12 minutes? The last game, he was up to 18 minutes. Let McDonagh earn Tort's respect, and we'll see ice time more evenly distributed.

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01-11-2011, 01:15 PM
  #132
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What pieces does everyone think Sather moves next for that Vet D man? Ya figure after everyones healthy we'll have quite the log jam in our bottom six...

Wolski - Steps - Gabby
Dubi - Anisimov - Cally (Had success before)
Feds - Boyle - Prust (either our 3rd of 4th line I can't see Torts breaking this up)
XXXX- XXXX - XXXXX
battling it out once everyones back you'll have - Prospal, MZA, Drury, Avery, Christensen, & even Boogie although he's least of our worries...thats still 5 going for 3 spots...

I'd personally drop Boyle's line to 4th line and make a 3rd line of Prospal - Christensen - MZA, putting Avery and Drury to the box or keeping Christensen in the press box and going with Avery - Prospal - MZA

How do you guys see it shaking out?

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01-11-2011, 01:26 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by ke11y96 View Post
What pieces does everyone think Sather moves next for that Vet D man? Ya figure after everyones healthy we'll have quite the log jam in our bottom six...

Wolski - Steps - Gabby
Dubi - Anisimov - Cally (Had success before)
Feds - Boyle - Prust (either our 3rd of 4th line I can't see Torts breaking this up)
XXXX- XXXX - XXXXX
battling it out once everyones back you'll have - Prospal, MZA, Drury, Avery, Christensen, & even Boogie although he's least of our worries...thats still 5 going for 3 spots...

I'd personally drop Boyle's line to 4th line and make a 3rd line of Prospal - Christensen - MZA, putting Avery and Drury to the box or keeping Christensen in the press box and going with Avery - Prospal - MZA

How do you guys see it shaking out?
Rental d-man for draft pick or prospect, depending on the player maybe for prospect and pick.

Phillips will cost too much, Kaberle will cost way too much and has a No trade he'd have to waive, Pitkanen won't be moved and especially not to us, and now I am hearing Bieksa has been playing very well so he probably won't be moved either.

I think tyutin could be had for a pick and maybe a prospect or maybe Gilroy and a pick.
Vandermeer plays for the oilers so I wouldn't rule him out either.

Sather usually trades for a puck moving d-man for the playoff push (Poti, Ozolinsh, and Morris), I mean Kaberle or Pitkanen fill that void best, but I am hoping we deal for Tyutin or a defensive minded d-man and we have Del Zotto to call up once his game is in order to provide a puck distributing d-man.

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01-11-2011, 01:30 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by Fitzy Duke of NY View Post
I need a rangerboy update on a possible deadline cap situation with Frolov on IR, 1.2 mil less and Boogaard on IR. What are we looking at to work with here?
Neither player is on IR. Even on IR, they still count against the cap. IR allows you to go over the cap, but you have to use up your remaining cap space first.

That 10 million number is using the bonus cushion, which we don't want to do. Depending on what bonuses are earned, we may have substantially less than 10 mil.

My best guess based on the numbers and which players are likely to earn bonuses and which are not, is anywhere between 2.7 mil and 5 mil, roughly. I'm sure Cam Hope has it all figured out already.

Basically, this is what it boils down to.

Projected cap space: $2,329,431
Current bonuses: $3,130,000 (capgeek's # does not include MDZ)

If all bonuses are earned and nothing else changes, we will roll over about 800k into next year's cap.

However, if Prospal doesn't play this year, then he won't earn his 1.4 mil bonus. That gives us 600k to work with. The trade deadline is Feb 28th. As of that day, there will be 41 days left in the season (out of 186), roughly 22%. Inverted, that gives a multiplier of 4.537 (ie. 1 mil prorated at the deadline = 4.537 mil).

That scenario would give us about 2.7 mil to work with (600k * 4.537).

If McDonagh (425k) and Weise (80k) do not earn their bonuses, then we've got about 5 mil to work with.

I'm assuming that Stepan, MDZ and MZA will all earn their bonuses. If MZA does not (and Prospal, McD and Weise do not), then our cap space goes up to about 8.8 mil.

I'm sure RB will correct me if I'm wrong on any of these numbers, but this is how I understand it to work.


Last edited by GAGLine: 01-11-2011 at 01:35 PM.
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01-11-2011, 01:34 PM
  #135
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They played 30 minutes against Dallas due to two factors - 1) it was McDonagh's debut, and 2) it was OT. they next night in STL, both players were under 28 minutes. Sauer started the year getinng, what, 10-12 minutes? The last game, he was up to 18 minutes. Let McDonagh earn Tort's respect, and we'll see ice time more evenly distributed.
Like I said, let the kids play for now. But I still think we'll need a vet dman for the playoffs, preferably one that can play the point.

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01-11-2011, 01:44 PM
  #136
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I would love to have Tyutin back and I don't think he would be too expensive to get. Only problem with Tyutin is that extension we gave him before we traded him. I don't know how much longer he has on it but I still wouldn't mind having him. He'd do great alongside Sauer.

Aside from that I believe we don't need a powerplay quarterback via trade. We need a gritty and defensively sound defensemen to play alongside Sauer. After we get that we send McDonough back to Hartford, bring MDZ back, and make Gilroy our 7th defender again.
Did any of you watch McD play at Wisconsin? Once he establishes his confidence at the NHL level he will be a steady, physical, smooth skating d-man that makes good outlet passes and has a dangerous shot from the point. This guy was taken when he was in the first round because of his amazing skill set. Let him get his feet wet and none of these guys will be needed.That includes MDZ.

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01-11-2011, 01:45 PM
  #137
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If we're going to move assets for a veteran dmen, I'd like to see us anti-up and try and obtain one who's under 30, and signed for at least another season. Would hate to see us trade a 2nd or 3rd for a 3 month rental about to hit free-agency. Someone like Toots, maybe?

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01-11-2011, 01:54 PM
  #138
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I dont really get this, everyone crys for the youth movement, we get it. Sather takes the next step in ridding us of roszival whose stock was inevitably going down, dumping a bad contract and an aging vet for scoring depth and a potentially good player. So now rosziv is gone and so is his cap and now were crying for anotherveteran nobody who can't cut it with the jackets, panthers etc, I really don't get it it's like we want roszival back because his cap was pretty similar to any veteran guy were going to get back in a trade. Rather than faze out roszival trade him at the deadline or draft he did it now, speeding up the process and spearheading the youth movement on defense. Is it that much of a risk to play with
Staal-girardi
Sauer-eminger
Gilroy-mcd
Until del zotto comes back? They've been doing fine recently; a veteran isn't a must have, the defense isn't going to go to shambles because roszival and his leadership is gone. And does anybody even know to what extent he was a leader? Just being around for a while and being one of the older guys doesn't make anybody a leader IMO. I think staal,girardi and eminger have enough presence in the locker room amongst the defensive players, but maybe that's just me.
agree 100%. Let the kids play and develop for our cup run in a couple of years. What's the point of giving up assets for a rental in a year where we are not a serious contender. We should be selling big contracts at the deadline if anything and stock piling picks. Let the kids play!!

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01-11-2011, 01:58 PM
  #139
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While I agree we need to play the kids, the playoffs are a different animal and you do need some veteran presence in the room to keep things running smoothly.
You want kids who are in your long term plans to get playoff experience even if it means an early exit. Bringing in vets and sending the kids to Hartford in an attempt to last a little longer in the playoffs sounds like what Dolan would want. And what Dolan wants is rarely good for the Rangers.

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01-11-2011, 02:00 PM
  #140
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Did any of you watch McD play at Wisconsin? Once he establishes his confidence at the NHL level he will be a steady, physical, smooth skating d-man that makes good outlet passes and has a dangerous shot from the point. This guy was taken when he was in the first round because of his amazing skill set. Let him get his feet wet and none of these guys will be needed.That includes MDZ.
Yes, I did. Expecting him to be an offensive defenseman would be a mistake. He is solid defensively and his skating is superb. I thought he was a shoe-in to make the NHL at the start of this season.

With all of that said, I am not sure he is totally ready yet. I hope he continues to play well because I think he can be a very important piece to the Rangers future, but I am not sure he should be learning on the fly at the NHL level.

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01-11-2011, 02:02 PM
  #141
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You want kids who are in your long term plans to get playoff experience even if it means an early exit. Bringing in vets and sending the kids to Hartford in an attempt to last a little longer in the playoffs sounds like what Dolan would want. And what Dolan wants is rarely good for the Rangers.
This 100%. I had them finishing 6-10, but probably on the outside. When the team is a surprising 10 games over .500 over the half way point, you start to think playoffs, because long term, even just the taste of the playoffs (a first round exit), is beneficial to the kids confidence and development long term. Even if it requires bringing in one or two hired guns to help the charge.

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01-11-2011, 02:05 PM
  #142
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i don't think the rangers are looking for another dman honestly. i think they like what they have and want to play the kid blueliners.

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01-11-2011, 02:05 PM
  #143
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Like I said, let the kids play for now. But I still think we'll need a vet dman for the playoffs, preferably one that can play the point.
When do the kids get their playoff experience? In a year that we can contend and now this is their first trip? No, give it to them this year when we are not a contender and let them use that experience to help then in future years. I would deal Eminger at the deadline, recall MDZ and go:

Staal Girardi
MDZ Sauer
MCD Gilroy

In this scenario everyone except Sauer has the talent to play the PP so you can split those minutes and McD was a beast killing penalties in college. He will do it effectively at this level. Have some faith in the kids (these talented kids). Remember this whole left side were first rounders. They will round out to strong players as they get older and more experienced. But none of that happens if they are replaced by rentals.

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01-11-2011, 02:05 PM
  #144
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If we're going to move assets for a veteran dmen, I'd like to see us anti-up and try and obtain one who's under 30, and signed for at least another season. Would hate to see us trade a 2nd or 3rd for a 3 month rental about to hit free-agency. Someone like Toots, maybe?
We can't afford to commit cap dollars for next season. We have too many RFAs to re-sign. We have about 16 mil in cap space next year, not counting if the cap goes up, but half of that will probably be spent on Dubi and Cally, with another 5 mil or so on Artie, Boyle and Sauer. Gilroy has to be re-signed or replaced. Eminger has to be re-signed or replaced. Do we bring Feds or Prospal back, or do one of the kids get that spot?

We may end up with some extra cap space, but we are better off waiting to see how much we have before we commit that money.

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01-11-2011, 02:05 PM
  #145
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agree 100%. Let the kids play and develop for our cup run in a couple of years. What's the point of giving up assets for a rental in a year where we are not a serious contender. We should be selling big contracts at the deadline if anything and stock piling picks. Let the kids play!!
Letting the kids play is all good and great, but raising them in a winning atmosphere is just as important. Getting playoff experience is also equally important. Selling off every important player with any experience is the way to lead to a rebuild. The Rangers are not rebuilding.

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01-11-2011, 02:06 PM
  #146
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Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
Neither player is on IR. Even on IR, they still count against the cap. IR allows you to go over the cap, but you have to use up your remaining cap space first.

That 10 million number is using the bonus cushion, which we don't want to do. Depending on what bonuses are earned, we may have substantially less than 10 mil.

My best guess based on the numbers and which players are likely to earn bonuses and which are not, is anywhere between 2.7 mil and 5 mil, roughly. I'm sure Cam Hope has it all figured out already.

Basically, this is what it boils down to.

Projected cap space: $2,329,431
Current bonuses: $3,130,000 (capgeek's # does not include MDZ)

If all bonuses are earned and nothing else changes, we will roll over about 800k into next year's cap.

However, if Prospal doesn't play this year, then he won't earn his 1.4 mil bonus. That gives us 600k to work with. The trade deadline is Feb 28th. As of that day, there will be 41 days left in the season (out of 186), roughly 22%. Inverted, that gives a multiplier of 4.537 (ie. 1 mil prorated at the deadline = 4.537 mil).

That scenario would give us about 2.7 mil to work with (600k * 4.537).

If McDonagh (425k) and Weise (80k) do not earn their bonuses, then we've got about 5 mil to work with.

I'm assuming that Stepan, MDZ and MZA will all earn their bonuses. If MZA does not (and Prospal, McD and Weise do not), then our cap space goes up to about 8.8 mil.

I'm sure RB will correct me if I'm wrong on any of these numbers, but this is how I understand it to work.
What is Frolov is put on the LITR? (if thats what it is)....dont they not count against the cap under that status

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01-11-2011, 02:08 PM
  #147
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Yes, I did. Expecting him to be an offensive defenseman would be a mistake. He is solid defensively and his skating is superb. I thought he was a shoe-in to make the NHL at the start of this season.

With all of that said, I am not sure he is totally ready yet. I hope he continues to play well because I think he can be a very important piece to the Rangers future, but I am not sure he should be learning on the fly at the NHL level.
He's not Brian Leetch but he has a good shot and can move the puck into the O-zone and set up plays. He's already showing some of those instincts with the big club. We'll see how he develops but outside of dropping the gloves I don't see any limits to the type of player he can be.

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01-11-2011, 02:09 PM
  #148
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When do the kids get their playoff experience? In a year that we can contend and now this is their first trip? No, give it to them this year when we are not a contender and let them use that experience to help then in future years. I would deal Eminger at the deadline, recall MDZ and go:

Staal Girardi
MDZ Sauer
MCD Gilroy

In this scenario everyone except Sauer has the talent to play the PP so you can split those minutes and McD was a beast killing penalties in college. He will do it effectively at this level. Have some faith in the kids (these talented kids). Remember this whole left side were first rounders. They will round out to strong players as they get older and more experienced. But none of that happens if they are replaced by rentals.
This isn't NHL '11. Asking a kid to play above his head will lead to confidence issues. That defense would get ripped apart in the 2nd half of the year, let alone the playoffs.

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01-11-2011, 02:11 PM
  #149
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Letting the kids play is all good and great, but raising them in a winning atmosphere is just as important. Getting playoff experience is also equally important. Selling off every important player with any experience is the way to lead to a rebuild. The Rangers are not rebuilding.
this is where we disagree fundamentally, I don't see Rozi or Eminger as important players. More like placeholders until our young guys can step in. I think they can step in now. We have plenty of Vets up front. It just so happens that our vets on the back end are inferior talentwise to our kids. Trust them.

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01-11-2011, 02:11 PM
  #150
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He's not Brian Leetch but he has a good shot and can move the puck into the O-zone and set up plays. He's already showing some of those instincts with the big club. We'll see how he develops but outside of dropping the gloves I don't see any limits to the type of player he can be.
I think he will top out at 25-30 points with solid defensive play. I think a mix of Staal and Girardi is most likely his ceiling. He doesnt have great offensive instincts but he is positionally sound in his own zone and does make a god break-out pass.

Either way, he showed that in college. Thats a large jump in a matter of 6 months considering he has yet to really dominate at the AHL level.

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