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01-11-2011, 05:40 PM
  #51
scramble91
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lol at line 2.. talk about a line without playmaking..

they are gonna hit people...but thats about it.

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01-11-2011, 05:43 PM
  #52
Sydor25
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Murray is a brilliant coach. The key is finding the right combination of players, once he gets that down, look out!

Still pathetic. 2+ seasons and he still doesn't know that it is the system and not the line combinations that is hindering the team on the ice.

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01-11-2011, 05:45 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by scramble91 View Post
lol at line 2.. talk about a line without playmaking..

they are gonna hit people...but thats about it.
We have a grand total of one true playmaking forward. So unless you've found a way to clone Kopitar...

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01-11-2011, 05:47 PM
  #54
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Murray is a brilliant coach. The key is finding the right combination of players, once he gets that down, look out!

Still pathetic. 2+ seasons and he still doesn't know that it is the system and not the line combinations that is hindering the team on the ice.
Can you say for sure that its the system itself and not the players execution of that system that is the problem? I can't.

Either way, its still mostly a coaching issue, but if its the execution that is the problem, then line changes can help.

That said... this team needs more than new lines. It might light some fire, but it won't fix the team's current problems.

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01-11-2011, 05:53 PM
  #55
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Those are all good names, but Weiss is the guy in Florida, Umberger is a home town kid and Vermette is in our conference and they really like him.

If we let Zeus go and trade for one of these guys then the centers would be Kopitar, ???, Stoll and Lewis...To go with your original point that doesn't give much room for Schenn any time soon, so you are right, they need to package Stoll so they have Schenn take the #3 center spot.

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01-11-2011, 06:13 PM
  #56
Sydor25
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Can you say for sure that its the system itself and not the players execution of that system that is the problem? I can't.
I can and did.

Look at the recent goals the Kings have been scoring, they are goals off of the rush and not using the Murray system. Last night was a great move by Simmonds to take it to the net, normally he would have passed it back to the point for a blocked shot or dump back into the corner. Martinez wristed it at the net through traffic for a tipped goal. Normally, he would dump the puck behind the net.


If it isn't the system, then why aren't the players playing it? They've had 3 years to get used to Murray and it sure looks like the players have just started playing with each other instead of playing a strong team system. How many blind passes do they try that goes to the other team or to nobody at all? Way too many for a team that has been playing the "system" for 3 years. How many times do they try that stupid tip pass at their own blue line that results in a turnover? How many times do they pass it back into their own zone and then get trapped by a strong forecheck?

The Kings should be playing better as a five man unit in year 3 and I don't see it. Still a lot of individuals on the ice and sometimes it works due to their individual skill, but I don't see 5 players working together with enough consistency to make me believe that Murray has a magical system that works. Why do I not see other teams playing like the Kings do on offense? I certainly see other, less skilled, teams with way more creativity in the offensive zone.

I don't have the "system" answer and I don't get paid to find it, but I know that the Kings aren't going to be fixed with line changes or a new, shiny left winger. They need a system overhaul and I don't believe that Murray will see the light and change his offensive approach to the game.

Either way, we are probably stuck with Murray until Lombardi gets fired. They both have 2 more years and I don't see Lombardi making a bold move like replacing Murray mid-season. If they miss the playoffs, then maybe Lombardi looks at a coaching change.


Sure sounds like Kopitar is excited...

Quote:
KOPITAR: “It comes and goes, I guess, with Terry. He has shown that he’s not afraid to mix the lines. Now, putting us together again, hopefully we can produce and hopefully we can stay together for a longer period of time.”


Last edited by Sydor25: 01-11-2011 at 06:18 PM.
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01-11-2011, 06:29 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by scramble91 View Post
lol at line 2.. talk about a line without playmaking..

they are gonna hit people...but thats about it.
Nah, you're wrong. Line #3 has two enforcers on it in Sturm and Simmonds.

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01-11-2011, 06:36 PM
  #58
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Well, there goes Brown's point total.

(*cross fingers, hoping to jinx 2nd line into scoring)

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01-11-2011, 06:37 PM
  #59
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Wow, Brown got shafted.

Leading scorer, 3rd in points, and is now with Zeus and a 19-year-old rookie.

Guess he won't be getting to 30 this season.

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01-11-2011, 06:56 PM
  #60
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"It’s not complicated, it has to come from in here,” Scuderi said of the locker room. “We have the system, we have the personnel, but right now there’s a lack of accountability from guy to guy.”

Murray was informed during the press conference that some players had raised the accountability issue. He responded with a terse warning that any player raising such complaints should make sure to back it up with their play.

At this point, those players are hard to find.

http://espn.go.com/blog/los-angeles/...to-maple-leafs

Maybe the players talked to Murray about their displeasure which led to the changes.

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01-11-2011, 07:06 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
... I don't have the "system" answer and I don't get paid to find it, but I know that the Kings aren't going to be fixed with line changes or a new, shiny left winger. They need a system overhaul and I don't believe that Murray will see the light and change his offensive approach to the game....
If the system was the problem then how did these players and this system roll Detroit and the Sharks a few weeks ago?

To me, it's an immature team. I've watched them play at the top of their game and then suddenly, it's as if they collectively think; no, make that believe they've got "it" and all the answers, only to have the opponents jump up and smack them in the mouth.

They are playing exactly like a young and talented team. When things are going their way they are rolling and the puck bounces for them. When they start rolling and the game gets a little too easy they get all loosey-goosey. They let up on the stick. They stop grinding, and working the little plays. They stop winning the little battles. Then they are startled when the opponent comes back at them.

The minute they start to believe their clippings and the comments the hockey world is making about their team and players - the minute they relax with the dreaded big head - they get slammed. Deservedly slammed.

I still believe this team is more like the group that beat the Sharks and Detroit than they are like the team that is losing in this home stand.

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01-11-2011, 07:28 PM
  #62
Sydor25
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Throw out the stats, wins and losses: what is it about Murray's offensive style that his fans like? Do you like the endless cylces with zero cross-ice passes? Do you like the static PP umbrella with zero cross-seam passes? Do you like the almost zero criss-cross rushes into the offensive zone? Do you like watching the defensemen stand at the blue line while the players cylce the puck behind the net and into the corners? Where are the cross ice passes back door?

What do the Kings do on offense that makes you believe that the system works in today's NHL? Defensively, the Kings are usually strong and this was what Murray was hired to fix, but Murray said that he was going to open up the offense this year and I haven't seen it.

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01-11-2011, 07:34 PM
  #63
scramble91
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Nah, you're wrong. Line #3 has two enforcers on it in Sturm and Simmonds.
Lol the new bash bros...

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01-11-2011, 07:37 PM
  #64
damacles1156
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Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
Throw out the stats, wins and losses: what is it about Murray's offensive style that his fans like? Do you like the endless cylces with zero cross-ice passes? Do you like the static PP umbrella with zero cross-seam passes? Do you like the almost zero criss-cross rushes into the offensive zone? Do you like watching the defensemen stand at the blue line while the players cylce the puck behind the net and into the corners? Where are the cross ice passes back door?

What do the Kings do on offense that makes you believe that the system works in today's NHL? Defensively, the Kings are usually strong and this was what Murray was hired to fix, but Murray said that he was going to open up the offense this year and I haven't seen it.
The Kings are pretty good when they play the system correctly. They haven't played the system well for about a month now.

And can we stop acting like a new system would solve all the problems, and Not create any new one's.

I know fans don't like TM and his brand of hockey. But the Kings are not even playing Defense lately. You can't blame TM for every single thing wrong.

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01-11-2011, 07:55 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Sydor25 View Post
What do the Kings do on offense that makes you believe that the system works in today's NHL? Defensively, the Kings are usually strong and this was what Murray was hired to fix, but Murray said that he was going to open up the offense this year and I haven't seen it.
The Kings have been pretty good, especially recently, about jumping on teams and getting 2,3 even 4 goal leads. It's not just the leads - its the way they get them. They dominate all over the ice. They win faceoffs. They control entry. They play penalties (whether up or down a man) with the same relaxed intensity that projects confidence. The other team just seems to get their heads down and hope to weather the storm.

But then the Kings get relaxed and start laughing and playing like everything will bounce their way, and Quick will stop everything else. They start to watch each other. They stop grinding. Now the opponent comes back at them. Now the Kings have to turn it on again. And they haven't learned how to do that.

They start scrambling. They start trying to make up for other players errors. They get out of position trying to back up someone else's mistakes. Suddenly, the opponent has time and space, scores a goal. Now the Kings are trying to make up 35 minutes of relaxed hockey with 8 minutes of stupid hockey - trying too hard, skating past plays, past position, and past the puck. We end up with too many players on the wrong side of the puck.

Not the system. Not the coach. Just players. Playing immaturely. Playing young.

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01-11-2011, 08:00 PM
  #66
Sydor25
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Not the system. Not the coach. Just players. Playing immaturely. Playing young.
They are no longer "young", this core has made it to the playoffs and took Vancouver to a 6th game. If it isn't the coach or system, then we are in a lot of trouble.

5 years into the rebuild and we don't have the right players? Yikes, sounds like another 5 year rebuild plan is needed.

I think Lombardi just over-corrected by hiring Murray since Crawford was a horrible coach for a young team. Crawford works with an older team. Murray is too soft and the players are playing just like their coach, boring and emotionless.

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01-11-2011, 08:04 PM
  #67
damacles1156
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They are no longer "young", this core has made it to the playoffs and took Vancouver to a 6th game. If it isn't the coach or system, then we are in a lot of trouble.

5 years into the rebuild and we don't have the right players? Yikes, sounds like another 5 year rebuild plan is needed.

I think Lombardi just over-corrected by hiring Murray since Crawford was a horrible coach for a young team. Crawford works with an older team. Murray is too soft and the players are playing just like their coach, boring and emotionless.
Id say 5 years and being competitive is pretty good. Pitt and Chi took much longer. And how is that coaching change working out For the Islanders and Jersey? yah they both still suck. And still have the same problems they did before. How are the Bluejackets looking with their overhaul of the coaching staff? Right at the bottom of the West with the Kings almost. Same problems they had last year, shotty defense system.

People like to point out Pitt and Philly, yes the coach change worked but both guys didn't change much Especially Pitt.

And some time the Kings PLAYERS have to man up.


Last edited by damacles1156: 01-11-2011 at 08:11 PM.
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01-11-2011, 08:21 PM
  #68
Sydor25
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Originally Posted by damacles1156 View Post

And some time the Kings PLAYERS have to man up.
Again, if this is the case, the Kings are in bigger trouble than I thought.

If Murray is such a great coach, why can't he get them to play for a full 60 minutes? Why does the team have no clue why they are having trouble playing for 60 minutes? Is Murray's system so rigid that they have to think about what they are doing before they do it? Could this explain the hesitation that takes place all over the ice? Could this be the reason why the forwards and defense rarely attack together?

It's not really the system that is at fault, it is more about getting a coach that can get more out of his players than Murray currently is getting. If you have the greatest system ever created, but you can't get the players to play it, what is the point of keeping the coach and/or system?

Does Lombardi need to start moving some of the "core" players to see if that is the issue or should he just hold the coach more accountable for the team that he has built in 5 years?

It's not all on the coach, but there is clearly something wrong with the team. Will one LW make everything better? How do you get this LW without moving important pieces of the "core"? How many more years are you going to give Murray to turn it around and show that he can get a team to play consistently for more than a month at a time?

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01-11-2011, 08:27 PM
  #69
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... How many more years are you going to give Murray to turn it around and show that he can get a team to play consistently for more than a month at a time?
I'm in for a year, year and a half. They are very close to finding their grove. Like I said (too many times at this point) the Detroit and Sharks games were the turning point for me. That was the first time I was certain that this roster could get it done as is. It's just a matter of playing to that level in each game.

Anything that got added, better LW, another experienced D, would just push them closer to the finals. Which, I'm ok with, btw.

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01-11-2011, 08:36 PM
  #70
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Again, if this is the case, the Kings are in bigger trouble than I thought.

If Murray is such a great coach, why can't he get them to play for a full 60 minutes? Why does the team have no clue why they are having trouble playing for 60 minutes? Is Murray's system so rigid that they have to think about what they are doing before they do it? Could this explain the hesitation that takes place all over the ice? Could this be the reason why the forwards and defense rarely attack together?

It's not really the system that is at fault, it is more about getting a coach that can get more out of his players than Murray currently is getting. If you have the greatest system ever created, but you can't get the players to play it, what is the point of keeping the coach and/or system?

Does Lombardi need to start moving some of the "core" players to see if that is the issue or should he just hold the coach more accountable for the team that he has built in 5 years?

It's not all on the coach, but there is clearly something wrong with the team. Will one LW make everything better? How do you get this LW without moving important pieces of the "core"? How many more years are you going to give Murray to turn it around and show that he can get a team to play consistently for more than a month at a time?
The Core is the problem they are not as good as Kings fans think they are. I really think the core thinks it can get away with taking a period off here and there.

No coach in the league has their team playing a full 60 consistently save Vancouver right now.

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01-11-2011, 10:03 PM
  #71
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The Core is the problem they are not as good as Kings fans think they are. I really think the core thinks it can get away with taking a period off here and there. No coach in the league has their team playing a full 60 consistently save Vancouver right now.
I know what you are saying, but to play devils advocate....then why should the kings fans buy into the rebuild at all? Dean keeps stating the core...and if the core isnt good, then why are we hanging onto them and moving in a different direction.

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01-11-2011, 10:31 PM
  #72
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I know what you are saying, but to play devils advocate....then why should the kings fans buy into the rebuild at all? Dean keeps stating the core...and if the core isnt good, then why are we hanging onto them and moving in a different direction.
Because most of them are not even 25 plus. If they were 28 to 30 then we would have a problem.

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01-11-2011, 10:50 PM
  #73
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Only because they don't say what you want them to. Which is why Clarence Darrow always described the use of statistics to prove anything as mere intellectual ping pong.
... Actually it's pretty meaningless to use team-based stats to judge individual performance. I don't have anything against Mitchell and I know he's a good player, so there's no reason for me to not "want" stats to illustrate this - just use the right ones.

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01-12-2011, 09:22 AM
  #74
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Those are all good names, but Weiss is the guy in Florida, Umberger is a home town kid and Vermette is in our conference and they really like him.

If we let Zeus go and trade for one of these guys then the centers would be Kopitar, ???, Stoll and Lewis...To go with your original point that doesn't give much room for Schenn any time soon, so you are right, they need to package Stoll so they have Schenn take the #3 center spot.
Next year's third line:

Clifford-Schenn-Simmonds

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01-12-2011, 10:47 AM
  #75
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Next year's third line:

Clifford-Schenn-Simmonds
Asking an awful lot of two 20 year-olds.

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