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Early Career Giroux?

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Old
01-11-2011, 08:09 PM
  #26
Dutch Dreams
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlieGirl View Post
Sorry, you lost me at Gilmour and Richards. Neither is even close to a decent comparison, although Kadri may dream about it.

However, after seeing both of them play a bit in junior (Kadri moreso), they weren't similar. Giroux has the ability to make the players around him better. Kadri is the guy who takes advantage of his liinemates' hard work. Not that that's necessarily a bad thing by any means, but they're not similar.
I did go on to refer to those comparisons as innacurate in the next sentence, mentioning Ribeiro as an accurate one.

I imagine this board was quite interested in Giroux's development?! No real-time assessment of the guy?!

As I mentioned in my post Giroux certainly looks a more rounded player, and is a better finisher, but I go on to mention that I'd like to evaluate Kadri's development to that of a similar player's when around a similar stage in that development.

Kadri is able to either create space for himself, through stickhandling, just like Giroux; or for his teammates, by slyly taking advantage of a narrow yet open for an instant passing lane, just like Giroux.

Next Jesus? To be fair he is descended from the Holy Land.

I'll edit my post so as to limit the confusion to such innacurate comparisons, but really guys; read it thoroughly.


Last edited by Dutch Dreams: 01-11-2011 at 08:20 PM.
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01-11-2011, 08:12 PM
  #27
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Kadri sucks.

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01-11-2011, 08:17 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BiLLY_ShOE1721 View Post
Wasn't that a former proposal made by a Leafs fan on this board IIRC?

OP is not close at all. Kadri doesn't have the intangibles, toughness, or leadership that Richards or Gilmour has, or the skill that Giroux has.
Again, innacurately interpreted sarcasm. I was making fun of such comparisons. Kadri certainly has Giroux's skill in the aspects highlighted, although, again - not his finishing ability, which we'll see about anyways.

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Originally Posted by RJ8812 View Post
from what i've seen of Kadri, he's nothing like Giroux....sorry
Sorry for saying nothing?

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Originally Posted by OriginJM View Post
Haha I love when someone comes in here and we just **** on their ideas/proposals.

Kadri can stick handle, so okay... cool. Datsyuk can stickhandle too... where's that comparison? How about Eberle, where's that comparison? Linus Omark? Every other play with good hands? ...just Giroux?

He's not like Giroux.
Care to elaborate?

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Originally Posted by ilovetheflyers8 View Post
Thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockeypete49 View Post
I have only seen Kadri play a few games. But right now he could not hold G's jock.
Which is why I'd like to know how Giroux was in the earliest stages of his pro development.

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01-12-2011, 12:22 AM
  #29
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I remember Giroux' rookie season very well. He threw a whole lot of sh** at the wall and some of it stuck. He wasn't afraid to try anything. The best thing for him was being paired with Briere and Gagne and Gagne benefited the most. Gags learned early on to keep his stick in a shooting position and Giroux would find some way to put the puck on his stick. He'd make stupid-sick behind the back passes with everyone following him around the net back to the backside to Gags who then had a wide open net.

Giroux was kind of undisciplined in his play though he often got away with it by using his incredible speed. Late in the game with us having a lead and the puck going behind the other teams net he'd chase the puck and opposing player around the net rather than playing it safe by setting up out in front of the goalie in a position to hound the puck carrier or to shut down passing lanes. However, because he was so young and full of "piss-and-vinegar" and that he did things that nobody EXPECTED, he got away with it and OFTEN ended up either stealing the puck or tying it up in the corners killing off even more time.

Richards' line matched up against the other teams top line. Carters line was usually put out there against the other teams 2nd line. that left the Gags-Briere-Giroux line to focus on offense. Thus we tried to "protect" Giroux as much as we could 5-on-5. Late in the season we started usuing him on the PK usually with Richards IIRC and he actually did quite well. With his speed he could chase the puck and harrass the point men very well. He showed in these instances that he actually COULD play responsible defensively but that when playing against the othere teams less offensive lines he just cut loose with some wreckless play.

He was actually built for early success in the NHL. He's small, fast. has great vision and skill. NONE of those things needed to be "developed" in the NHL. This was much the same for Mike Richards and the reason for his early success. Jeff Carter needed to grow into his size before he could start to dominate like he did in juniors and that's why his NHL success came later than Richards. JVR will need to grow into his body too and he is still a few years away from fully developing at the NHL level too. I think Kadri is more like Richards and Giroux in that he is built for early success in the NHL too. What you will see in the forst 2-3 years from him will likely be a damned good indicator of how his career will go.

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01-12-2011, 06:02 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutch Dreams View Post
I did go on to refer to those comparisons as innacurate in the next sentence, mentioning Ribeiro as an accurate one.

I imagine this board was quite interested in Giroux's development?! No real-time assessment of the guy?!

As I mentioned in my post Giroux certainly looks a more rounded player, and is a better finisher, but I go on to mention that I'd like to evaluate Kadri's development to that of a similar player's when around a similar stage in that development.

Kadri is able to either create space for himself, through stickhandling, just like Giroux; or for his teammates, by slyly taking advantage of a narrow yet open for an instant passing lane, just like Giroux.

Next Jesus? To be fair he is descended from the Holy Land.

I'll edit my post so as to limit the confusion to such innacurate comparisons, but really guys; read it thoroughly.
Giroux only became a finisher this year. His first 2 years he would always pass, like always. His passes can be amazing, often times being flubbed by his linemates who dont expect the pass to get through. and Giroux never gives up and has the heart of a champion to go along with great vision and great hands.

His rookie year specifically, we all thought he was a lock for the team out of camp, but he didn't have a great camp so went to the AHL. He produced at a PPG clip in the AHL and eventually we called him back up. Besides over passing, and rookie mistakes he played very well for us. He and Richards were our best players in our first round exit vs the pens.

One of his best plays as a rookie:


I know nothing of Kadri besides WJC really so I can't really comment. CharlieGirl is a huge Kitchener fan, so I would trust her opinion

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01-12-2011, 07:35 AM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
I remember Giroux' rookie season very well. He threw a whole lot of sh** at the wall and some of it stuck. He wasn't afraid to try anything. The best thing for him was being paired with Briere and Gagne and Gagne benefited the most. Gags learned early on to keep his stick in a shooting position and Giroux would find some way to put the puck on his stick. He'd make stupid-sick behind the back passes with everyone following him around the net back to the backside to Gags who then had a wide open net.

Giroux was kind of undisciplined in his play though he often got away with it by using his incredible speed. Late in the game with us having a lead and the puck going behind the other teams net he'd chase the puck and opposing player around the net rather than playing it safe by setting up out in front of the goalie in a position to hound the puck carrier or to shut down passing lanes. However, because he was so young and full of "piss-and-vinegar" and that he did things that nobody EXPECTED, he got away with it and OFTEN ended up either stealing the puck or tying it up in the corners killing off even more time.

Richards' line matched up against the other teams top line. Carters line was usually put out there against the other teams 2nd line. that left the Gags-Briere-Giroux line to focus on offense. Thus we tried to "protect" Giroux as much as we could 5-on-5. Late in the season we started usuing him on the PK usually with Richards IIRC and he actually did quite well. With his speed he could chase the puck and harrass the point men very well. He showed in these instances that he actually COULD play responsible defensively but that when playing against the othere teams less offensive lines he just cut loose with some wreckless play.

He was actually built for early success in the NHL. He's small, fast. has great vision and skill. NONE of those things needed to be "developed" in the NHL. This was much the same for Mike Richards and the reason for his early success. Jeff Carter needed to grow into his size before he could start to dominate like he did in juniors and that's why his NHL success came later than Richards. JVR will need to grow into his body too and he is still a few years away from fully developing at the NHL level too. I think Kadri is more like Richards and Giroux in that he is built for early success in the NHL too. What you will see in the forst 2-3 years from him will likely be a damned good indicator of how his career will go.
Thanks man. Ya, Kadri has the raw skill there and shifty hands that he's been able to use at the highest level already; what he needs to do is round out his overall positional game and just become stronger on the puck. It appears quite a consistent trend that the youngest players have an OK rookie season, then the so-called sophomore slump, but then in their third year finally start to produce regularly, and that is exactly how Giroux has developed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hovercraft View Post
Giroux only became a finisher this year. His first 2 years he would always pass, like always. His passes can be amazing, often times being flubbed by his linemates who dont expect the pass to get through. and Giroux never gives up and has the heart of a champion to go along with great vision and great hands.

His rookie year specifically, we all thought he was a lock for the team out of camp, but he didn't have a great camp so went to the AHL. He produced at a PPG clip in the AHL and eventually we called him back up. Besides over passing, and rookie mistakes he played very well for us. He and Richards were our best players in our first round exit vs the pens.

One of his best plays as a rookie:


I know nothing of Kadri besides WJC really so I can't really comment. CharlieGirl is a huge Kitchener fan, so I would trust her opinion
Thanks man. Ya, that's exactly why I'd wanted to know how he naturally entered the league, as I've only been able to evaluate his game since the mid-point of the 09/10 season.

Tha really sounds like Kadri. What you immediately noticed about his game is that he could slot the puck anywhere unexpectedly; and even his first game he created 5 point blank chances which were flubbed on or missed, as they seemed to just take his teammates by surprise.

There was a lot more skepticism around Kadri making the team than it seems you say there was of Giroux, but a significant amount of people thought the skill he brought was just too much to pass up, and plus he had bulked up quite successfully as well, getting up to 188lbs.

He didn't do too well in pre-season though either, much like you described Giroux's rookie tryout - so ultimately he was sent to the A, where, again; he's produced at a PPG, much like Giroux.

What Kadri needs to do is just have another summer of bulking up and gaining strength. The guy is 6'0". He's at 188 now. He should definitely be able to get to the standard NHL 200.

The skill is certainly there, it's just limited now by his lack of strength, as many times he's limited in his ability to manouver himself into shooting position, or unable to gain and maintain possession along the boards. He also needs to round out his game before maintaining himself as a top-line fixture, although Wilson seems always confident in him, playing him 17-18 minutes a night every game he starts. There was a debate of whether he should just be placed with Kessel when the team was struggling to score, as Kessel really is our only one-shot scorer, and Kadri was the only guy consistently creating space for others. Burke also imagined him a place on our third line with Versteeg and Armstrong, as was the line Wilson initially slotted him in, which is a pretty complementary line, as you've got the forechecking and cycle game of Armstrong, and also the forechecking and skill and speed of Versteeg; as he's quite a chippy player, although he's a little too tenative so early in his development to play with that edge at the NHL level. Ha, whenever I think of Kadri as an intense player I'll always remember Giroux's play overall; but especially his hit on Kulemin early this year, where he just sent him flying; and Kulemin has bulked up to like 230-235 this season...

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Old
01-12-2011, 11:19 AM
  #32
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Can we stop talking about Kadri now? If you're looking for an NHL comparison for him, look no further than Corey Perry. Kadri is a Perry clone. Perry has better hands, Kadri is a better skater. Perhaps you'd be better off asking Anaheim what they think of Kadri, because Giroux is not a good comparison in any measurable way.

I didn't like Kadri when he was with Kitchener, I didn't like him when he was with London, and I don't like him now that he's a friggen' Leaf. He's a great kid, but as soon as he steps on the ice, he becomes a huge ******* and one I'm very glad is not on my team.


Last edited by CharlieGirl: 01-12-2011 at 12:10 PM.
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Old
01-12-2011, 11:29 AM
  #33
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I haven't seen much of Kadri, but you'd have a very tough time trying to convince me that Kadri has anywhere near the same "killer vision" that Giroux has.

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01-14-2011, 09:08 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutch Dreams View Post
Hi guys. Anytime I think of Kadri; of course - there have been a lot of comparisons made, but anytime I see this guy play I'm always reminded of Giroux, who's about as close to a player as Kadri should project to be.

Both are smaller, tenacious natural centers with unreal stickhandling ability and killer vision - although I think Kadri has more of a mean streak and a slightly larger build, while Giroux is more accomplished defensively and is a better finisher.

Even their early career paths have went quite similarly so far, which saw Giroux, of course, produce at his highest junior pace his last year of eligibility, and dominate in the subsequent playoffs. He also produced at the WJC's.

I see in 08-09 Giroux wasn't called up until about the end of December, and remained with the team from then on, meanwhile having produced at a PPG in the A, and ultimately putting up 27 points in 42 games up with the big team. Kadri himself is in much a similar situation, as he did receive an earlier call-up, due to our lack of offensive depth, but has also remained a PPG player in the A. He assisted on 6 goals in 17 games and generally created a lot of chances for himself and others throughout the majority of his call-up, although he did struggle in his last few games, being scratched for multiple games on end before being finally sent down. To match Giroux's half a season of 08-09 who still could be called up within about the next 20 games, and from his first stint could be on pace at least for about as many assists as Giroux had in his first call-up. Goals haven't come but he has been getting his chances, and, as said - Giroux just is a better finisher than Kadri.

All these stats are cute and all, but I'd really like to know how Giroux developed early on in his career. What did he do that stood out positively? What did he have to work on? How many minutes was he playing? Was he getting powerplay time? How were faceoffs? Who were his linemates, etc.. ???

I just see a lot of similarities in their games, as both of them are smaller guys who excel within the space the center position gives them, allowing them to create space for themselves through some disgusting stickhandling, and create space for their teammates through some innate vision.

Giroux has a little more offensive upside with his finishing ability. He also seems more rounded a player, but of course that's from watching him since his sophomore season. Kadri is quite raw physically, and needs to learn the finer side of defensive positioning, but ya of course I'm looking at him as a rookie, which is exactly why I'd like to know how a similar developed, especially while in the earliest stages of his pro career, which of course is where Kadri is now.

Thanks Guys.
There is no comparison, in fact poll the 28 other GMs in the league Kadri is no or never will be as good as Giroux. Kadri is small, light, scared of corners and a perimeter player who cannot crack a dreadful team. Kadri has been overrated by the TO media and will amount to nothing more than a 3rd or 4th line checker..if he learns the role. And in closing get your eyes checked there are no similarities in their games.

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Old
03-01-2013, 01:58 AM
  #35
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Bump.

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03-01-2013, 02:01 AM
  #36
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Lock.

We don't really need a necro thread for Toronto fans to go on about their own players on the Flyers forum.

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