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Old
01-11-2011, 11:57 PM
  #1
Sawdalite
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I'm Just Sayin'

At the end of 1/11/11 the Flyers over the last ten games had a 7-3-0 record... Over their last ten games Tampa Bay had a record of 6-3-1 ... Boston and Washington had identical records of 6-1-3.

The Flyers had 7 wins
TB, Boston & the Caps each had 6 wins

The Flyers had only 3 losses
TB, Boston & the Caps had 4 losses each

The Flyers had one more win than each of those teams
The Flyers had one less loss than each of those teams
The Flyers had more wins and less losses than any of those teams

In a 'Normal' and rational World the Flyers would have gained ground on all the teams listed.

In a 'Normal' and rational World a win is a win, and loss is a loss.

... In the NHL:

The Flyers had 14 points over that span
The Bolts had 13 points during those ten games
The Bruins and Capitals had 15 points over that identical ten game period


The Flyers with one more win and one less loss than all three teams lost ground to two of the three teams... and the Lightening lost ground to all three other teams while having the same number of wins and the same number of losses as two of the three.







... I'm just sayin'

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01-12-2011, 12:27 AM
  #2
GKJ
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Why is this off-topic?


Welcome to the Nu-NHL. Keep winning or drop in the standings.

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01-12-2011, 12:40 AM
  #3
Phileeguy
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So, get rid of 3 point games is the answer for you I'm guessing?

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01-12-2011, 12:53 AM
  #4
Sawdalite
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
Why is this off-topic?

Welcome to the Nu-NHL. Keep winning or drop in the standings.
I didn't know what else to label it. haha... And how can a new topic be 'off topic' anyway? I never really understood that. I just took it to mean off topic from the other options.



BTW... Was starting this to not only discuss this, but to maybe morph into other Just sayin pet peeves... or head scratches... or ironies, etc.

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01-12-2011, 01:04 AM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phileeguy View Post
So, get rid of 3 point games is the answer for you I'm guessing?
That, or maybe go with those all games be three point game suggestions that have floating around the 'Net for a while.


... I just find it crazy that the Flyers have more wind, less loses and less points... Makes less sense to me than ties did. At least with ties you can make a logical explanation of the point accumulation and assignment.

"All animals are created equal, but some animals are more equal than others." = "All losses are created equal, but some losses are more equal than others."

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01-12-2011, 01:20 AM
  #6
Murphy7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sawdalite View Post
Makes less sense to me than ties did. At least with ties you can make a logical explanation of the point accumulation and assignment.
Just think of them as ties in which one team wins. That might

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01-12-2011, 01:33 AM
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"It is what it is."

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Old
01-12-2011, 02:49 AM
  #8
drownedsailors
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I'm sorry, but am I the only one that's seriously pissed off that we haven't beaten Tampa yet?


...When's the next time we play them!?!?!?

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01-12-2011, 03:01 AM
  #9
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I just really wish the NHL would go to a full three point system. I hate the inconsistency that some games are worth 2 points and some are worth 3.

3 points for a win in regulation
2 points for a win in OT/SO
1 point for a loss in OT/SO
0 points for a loss in regulation.

Done. Fixed.

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01-12-2011, 04:36 AM
  #10
BringBackStevens
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I agree that the inconsistencies with the point system are starting to be a problem. Last year if we had lost that shootout to the Rangers we would have missed out on the playoffs in favor of them, even though we would have had more wins still, IIRC.

I think it needs to be looked at.

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01-12-2011, 05:13 AM
  #11
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This gets looked at every season and, every season, it is found that the pity point does virtually nothing meaningful to the standings. Only the top 4 or 5 teams ever win the Cup anyway.

It seems like it would mess with the standings but it really doesn't have much affect. Just look at the final standings from each year since the lock out and see what would happen.

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01-12-2011, 08:18 AM
  #12
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OTL's keep more team's in the playoff race. Someone who loses 4 games in a row in OT, is doing just as well as someone who wins 2 games and loses 2 in regulation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chaosof99 View Post
I just really wish the NHL would go to a full three point system. I hate the inconsistency that some games are worth 2 points and some are worth 3.

3 points for a win in regulation
2 points for a win in OT/SO
1 point for a loss in OT/SO
0 points for a loss in regulation.

Done. Fixed.
Here's an idea:

You win, you get +1 in the win column.

You lose, you get +1 in the loss column.

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01-12-2011, 08:39 AM
  #13
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you lose you should get nothing, zero, nada. That is a joke that teams get 1 point and artifically stay in the playoff "race". Rather have the winnign team get 3 poitns then if it came down do it as tha neutralizes the 1 point a losing team doesnt deserve.

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01-12-2011, 08:46 AM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NWO View Post
you lose you should get nothing, zero, nada. That is a joke that teams get 1 point and artifically stay in the playoff "race". Rather have the winnign team get 3 poitns then if it came down do it as tha neutralizes the 1 point a losing team doesnt deserve.
It's the point for being tied after regulation. It has always been there and I don't see why it should go away.

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01-12-2011, 08:58 AM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chaosof99 View Post
It's the point for being tied after regulation. It has always been there and I don't see why it should go away.
It didn't use to be there, and OT was dreadful because of it.

Independent of that, there is a very logical reason why each team should get a point for being tied after 60 minutes. Giving a team 0 pts in a 65 minute game when the final result is decided by 4-on-4 or a SO isn't exactly fair either. As you noted, 3 pts for a win in regulation is (by far) the way it should go.

However, as Valhoun notes, the current point system has minimal effect on the standings... usually only amounting to some slight shifting if you applied one of the other options.

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01-12-2011, 09:02 AM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chaosof99 View Post
I just really wish the NHL would go to a full three point system. I hate the inconsistency that some games are worth 2 points and some are worth 3.

3 points for a win in regulation
2 points for a win in OT/SO
1 point for a loss in OT/SO
0 points for a loss in regulation.

Done. Fixed.
Hate that idea, no one should get points for a shootout win, period.

2pts for a regulation win
2pts for an OT win
1pt each for a tie at end of OT
Shootout win only applies to a tiebreaker situation for making playoffs

I see no reason why a skills competition should count as a win, it is an individual on individual, ruins the 60+ minutes in which players compete.

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01-12-2011, 09:02 AM
  #17
AaronTrieu
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i don't have a problem with it. if the flyers go 7-3 all the way the to the end of the season i will be very very happy. they would finish with 115 pts.

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01-12-2011, 09:04 AM
  #18
Jester
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
OTL's keep more team's in the playoff race. Someone who loses 4 games in a row in OT, is doing just as well as someone who wins 2 games and loses 2 in regulation.
In theory, yes, in actual fact, as Valhoun notes, it doesn't have a tremendous impact. If you go back and look at the standings prior to OTL with the ties, you'll see a LOT of ties.

Teams got into OT and played extremely cautious in order to protect their point. Then they want to the 3 point OT with the OTL (no shootout) and games between conference opponents remained tremendously boring because they didn't want to give an extra point in the standings to their opposition... and OT with the other conference were wide open, because who cared?

That being said... I don't see the travesty in 4 OTLs (given the current format of OT) being the same as a 2-2-0 record. Come playoff team, the 4 OTL team is harder to beat in regulation apparently.

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01-12-2011, 09:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
It didn't use to be there, and OT was dreadful because of it.

Independent of that, there is a very logical reason why each team should get a point for being tied after 60 minutes. Giving a team 0 pts in a 65 minute game when the final result is decided by 4-on-4 or a SO isn't exactly fair either. As you noted, 3 pts for a win in regulation is (by far) the way it should go.

However, as Valhoun notes, the current point system has minimal effect on the standings... usually only amounting to some slight shifting if you applied one of the other options.
disagree, you lose you get nothing. i dont care if you played for 2 hours. Once players realize you get nothign if you lose you will see imo better play.

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01-12-2011, 09:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
It didn't use to be there, and OT was dreadful because of it.

Independent of that, there is a very logical reason why each team should get a point for being tied after 60 minutes. Giving a team 0 pts in a 65 minute game when the final result is decided by 4-on-4 or a SO isn't exactly fair either. As you noted, 3 pts for a win in regulation is (by far) the way it should go.

However, as Valhoun notes, the current point system has minimal effect on the standings... usually only amounting to some slight shifting if you applied one of the other options.
Going to a 1-2-3 system does have a broader affect but merely taking away the loser point has very little. But, really, until 6-7-8 seeds actually start to win Cups then the entire discussion is silly. The fact is, the borderline playoff teams don't win Cups so that artificially compressing the standings due to awarding loser points may make the fight for the last few playoff spots interesting (and raise ratings/ticket sales) it has zero affect on who wins the Cup. The most a poorly seeded team can hope for is maybe playing spoiler. But they don't win ****.

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01-12-2011, 09:06 AM
  #21
Jester
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
Hate that idea, no one should get points for a shootout win, period.

2pts for a regulation win
2pts for an OT win
1pt each for a tie at end of OT
Shootout win only applies to a tiebreaker situation for making playoffs

I see no reason why a skills competition should count as a win, it is an individual on individual, ruins the 60+ minutes in which players compete.
Do you not remember how much of a waste of time OT was back in the day? There's a reason the 3 pt game was put into place, and it wasn't just for ****s and giggles. And if the shootout means nada but tiebreaker, a lot of the drama will drip away from that too.

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01-12-2011, 09:09 AM
  #22
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Originally Posted by NWO View Post
disagree, you lose you get nothing. i dont care if you played for 2 hours. Once players realize you get nothign if you lose you will see imo better play.
We watched it man! I'm not talking in abstracts here, there used to be 0 pts for an OTL, and teams went into uber passive systems and just skated around for 5 minutes unless someone did something incredibly stupid... took their 1 pt, and went on to the next city.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valhoun View Post
Going to a 1-2-3 system does have a broader affect but merely taking away the loser point has very little. But, really, until 6-7-8 seeds actually start to win Cups then the entire discussion is silly. The fact is, the borderline playoff teams don't win Cups so that artificially compressing the standings due to awarding loser points may make the fight for the last few playoff spots interesting (and raise ratings/ticket sales) it has zero affect on who wins the Cup. The most a poorly seeded team can hope for is maybe playing spoiler. But they don't win ****.
Right, but I don't think it really artificially compresses the standings all that much even. Maybe some impact at the bottom, but the reality was that teams split the 2 pts the vast majority of the time it went to OT... even the good teams.

If anything... 4-on-4 gives an advantage to more skilled teams. SO is a different beast.

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01-12-2011, 09:19 AM
  #23
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OT hockey in the late 90s was the most boring thing on the planet during the regular season.

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01-12-2011, 09:19 AM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
In theory, yes, in actual fact, as Valhoun notes, it doesn't have a tremendous impact. If you go back and look at the standings prior to OTL with the ties, you'll see a LOT of ties.

Teams got into OT and played extremely cautious in order to protect their point. Then they want to the 3 point OT with the OTL (no shootout) and games between conference opponents remained tremendously boring because they didn't want to give an extra point in the standings to their opposition... and OT with the other conference were wide open, because who cared?

That being said... I don't see the travesty in 4 OTLs (given the current format of OT) being the same as a 2-2-0 record. Come playoff team, the 4 OTL team is harder to beat in regulation apparently.
You could also make the case that if a team gets 2pts for an OT win or zero points for a loss teams who need the points in theory would play more to get the 2pts instead of splitting 1pt apiece for a tie.

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01-12-2011, 09:27 AM
  #25
Jester
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Originally Posted by Cartsiephan View Post
You could also make the case that if a team gets 2pts for an OT win or zero points for a loss teams who need the points in theory would play more to get the 2pts instead of splitting 1pt apiece for a tie.
They didn't.

The only time it happened was in the final couple weeks of the season with teams who knew their playoff point position situation. As said, this isn't some abstract thing... a decade ago we had ties, no points for OTL, and then 3 pt games. We've seen how teams in recent memory approached the game theory of that point system, and it was boring as hell.

I would much prefer they go to ties and no OT, than routinely wasting 5 minutes of everyone's lives that we can never get back.

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