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What to do with Seabrook

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Old
01-11-2011, 12:17 PM
  #26
BobbyJet
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I think Hammer is being underrated by some Hawk fans. His play has picked up from a shaky start and he may be overpaid presently (thanks to our friend Dougie) but I think the potential is there for him to be very good one day. We just need to be patient and suck it up as far as his contract is concerned. I say we keep the top 4 defenceman unless a deal comes around that can't be turned down (actually top 5 as Leddy looks good as well).

Seabrook and his agent will know quite well of his worth to this club. The question is: Will he get greedy?

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01-11-2011, 03:30 PM
  #27
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Hammer is a perfect fit for Campbell

Without Campbell Hammer was a wreck but since Campbell's return and them being reunited Hammer's play has been fine

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01-11-2011, 05:13 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
Hammer is a perfect fit for Campbell

Without Campbell Hammer was a wreck but since Campbell's return and them being reunited Hammer's play has been fine
The entire team seems to be a wreck without Campbell.

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01-11-2011, 05:41 PM
  #29
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If Seabrook were to depart, I would suggest Hjalmarsson as a better partner than Campbell for Keith. Both Keith and Soupy are two-way guys who can hold down their own pairing rather than thunder and lightning to compliment each other.

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01-12-2011, 06:05 AM
  #30
Bubba88
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I would want next season

Keith - Player we get in Return for Seabrook
Hjalmarsson - Campbell
?? - Leddy

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01-12-2011, 08:25 AM
  #31
coldsteelonice84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubba88 View Post
I would want next season

Keith - Player we get in Return for Seabrook
Hjalmarsson - Campbell
?? - Leddy
Keith-Seabrook
Hjalmarsson-Campbell
Hejda-Leddy

Hejda would be a really good partner for Leddy and wouldn't cost too much. That would be the best D the Hawks have had in decades.

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01-12-2011, 08:48 AM
  #32
Bubba88
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but what happens with Sharp? Not sure if we can keep both


what if the next CBA has the paid money, not the average as Cap Hit... Hossa and Keith would cost Sharp alone.

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01-12-2011, 09:08 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Bubba88 View Post
but what happens with Sharp? Not sure if we can keep both


what if the next CBA has the paid money, not the average as Cap Hit... Hossa and Keith would cost Sharp alone.
Pretty sure if the CBA were to change like that, then the existing contracts would be grandfathered in and it would only apply to new contracts signed. You can't punish teams for contracts given before the changes were made.

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01-12-2011, 09:22 AM
  #34
Illinihockey
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Pretty sure if the CBA were to change like that, then the existing contracts would be grandfathered in and it would only apply to new contracts signed. You can't punish teams for contracts given before the changes were made.
Right, there's no chance they do that because it would destroy some of the top teams that have players signed to long term deals.

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01-12-2011, 09:55 AM
  #35
coldsteelonice84
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Right, there's no chance they do that because it would destroy some of the top teams that have players signed to long term deals.
Yeah, and they'd lose A LOT of fans. Bettman would have to go into hiding. In other words, no chance this happens.

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01-12-2011, 10:36 AM
  #36
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OK, then it's not bad.

But what if the Cap goes down a bit? Sometimes... our young guys on ELCs will get a raise.

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01-12-2011, 11:05 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Bubba88 View Post
OK, then it's not bad.

But what if the Cap goes down a bit? Sometimes... our young guys on ELCs will get a raise.
They've already announced that they expect it will up about $3M.

And if it does go down, every other contender will have the same problem that we have.

Remeber we lost $4M of cap space this year due to the bonus penalty.

So, we are already $4M ahead of the pack next year when you comare our existing cap limit.

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01-12-2011, 11:11 AM
  #38
coldsteelonice84
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Originally Posted by Bubba88 View Post
OK, then it's not bad.

But what if the Cap goes down a bit? Sometimes... our young guys on ELCs will get a raise.
To be honest with you, I'm not getting too attached to our youngs guys on ELCs. We may be able to keep them for an additional year after the ELC, possibly even two. I think if Leddy, Morin etc. break out, they'll only be resigned to replace members of the current core. After these ELCs are over, Campbell will be nearing the end of his deal and we'll have to get rid of him somehow, some way or lose the young guys.

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01-12-2011, 11:23 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by coldsteelonice84 View Post
To be honest with you, I'm not getting too attached to our youngs guys on ELCs. We may be able to keep them for an additional year after the ELC, possibly even two. I think if Leddy, Morin etc. break out, they'll only be resigned to replace members of the current core. After these ELCs are over, Campbell will be nearing the end of his deal and we'll have to get rid of him somehow, some way or lose the young guys.
Right. People also over value prospects. Most of the guys we have on ELC's aren't going to become Kane and Toews and get 5-6 mil a season. Most likely they'll end up with Brower like production and get paid in the low 2's or 3's.

Its funny this season feels like such a disaster but with a held lead here or there this team is probably sitting around 55 points and comfortably in 4th place. I really think if we weren't 4 mil short in cap space we have additional players that turn a few of those L's into W's and OTL's.

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01-12-2011, 12:20 PM
  #40
coldsteelonice84
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If we had that additional 4M, I have no doubt we'd be leading the division and possbily the conference. Bowman played it right; the other teams in the NHL just don't have as much high end talent as we do. Guys like Stalberg, Scott, Johnson, Cullimore and Boynton wouldn't even be getting ice time for the better teams in the league but have to play for us due to the cap.

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Old
01-12-2011, 01:03 PM
  #41
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UNLIKE KEITH -in his contract year last season--SEABROOK is not having a "contract year" performance...

FOR $5.8 million open market ? (LOL!) he is:
i) NOT an nHL "all-star" this year
ii) a MINUS 5 after 44gP
iii) a poster boy for FTC's (Failure to Clears)
iv) unable to 'cover up" for Keith's errors of the foggy kind (Keith played in a fog most of the first half)..


THIS has led many to ponder --was it KEITH (when he played really good the prior 2 years to this season0 ho made SEABROOK look better than he was as a "shutdown " D --and now that Keith after the big bucks contract STUNK in the 1st half-the "real" sEABROOK was "exposed"?


OR is the pressure of the contract year causig SEABROOK to not give the uusual "best in years" performance a lot of players give in a contract year? IF so there is hope he returns to "normal " with us next year after signing a "home discount contract extension' for less than
market (once thought) simply because the market for him DID DROP given his less than all-star showing..

AT SOME POINT one needs to draw a line bwtween merely constant pay raising for no increase -in this case a decrease-in performance value --and ACTUAL PAY VALUE..

HOWEVER there could be offer sheetcrazies who think this is merely an "OFF" year for Seabrook and that they should ignore the drop in play and go after him because he'llbounce back to normal next year.

So here is the realissue-let him go/take the picks and bring in some vet who will be better with the Hawks than he was with his last team-but is a much more reasonable price.

EXAMPLE: SAY OTTAWA doesn't re-sign CHRIS PHILLIPS...maybe you get pHILLIPS for just what he got in Ottawa this season ($3.5 million) maybe PHILLIPS rebounds to at least no worse than Seabrook is this year (eg.-5) or does beeter (ie. ZERO or +5 ) with the Hawks who are a better club that was Ottawa this year..

So you must at some point WEIGH performance to VALUE and if SEABROOK just HAS to be raised for market sake because of the FEAR of the offer-sheet and IF that causes OVER_VALUATION--then you let him go ...ofcourse if he eally loves Chicago maybe he takes the old DET hometown discount to prove his desireto stay here.oR if he takes the cash some idiot team thrws at him--then bye-bye.

The Hawks cannot give EVERYBODY raises to $5.5 million + IF the performance failsto merit it.

AN LTcontract @ $4.7 million per is about max I would pay for Mr. FAIL TO CLEAR ...
Beyond that look at other options.. A cheaper proven vet who will get better than he was with us than with his former club ..SO if Seabs walks on $4.7 THEN we should seek out nOT a $4.7 m equivalent butrather a $3.5 "grateful" vet glad to be out of his old re-building club at the bottom,and joining MARKETING HYPE 101 in Chicago where EVERY guy on the team is a superstar and deserves big pay raises... So sign here for $3.5 for 3 years and don't worry-you'll make it up in car commercials.


Last edited by hawksfan50: 01-12-2011 at 01:21 PM.
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Old
01-12-2011, 01:55 PM
  #42
massivegoonery
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unlike keith -IN HIS CONTRACT YEAR LAST SEASON--seabrook IS NOT HAVING A "CONTRACT YEAR" PERFORMANCE...

for $5.8 MILLION OPEN MARKET ? (lol!) HE IS:
I) not AN Nhl "ALL-STAR" THIS YEAR
II) A minus 5 AFTER 44Gp
III) A POSTER BOY FOR ftc'S (fAILURE TO cLEARS)
IV) UNABLE TO 'COVER UP" FOR kEITH'S ERRORS OF THE FOGGY KIND (kEITH PLAYED IN A FOG MOST OF THE FIRST HALF)..


this HAS LED MANY TO PONDER --WAS IT keith (WHEN HE PLAYED REALLY GOOD THE PRIOR 2 YEARS TO THIS SEASON0 HO MADE seabrook LOOK BETTER THAN HE WAS AS A "SHUTDOWN " d --AND NOW THAT kEITH AFTER THE BIG BUCKS CONTRACT stunk IN THE 1ST HALF-THE "REAL" Seabrook WAS "EXPOSED"?


or IS THE PRESSURE OF THE CONTRACT YEAR CAUSIG seabrook TO NOT GIVE THE UUSUAL "BEST IN YEARS" PERFORMANCE A LOT OF PLAYERS GIVE IN A CONTRACT YEAR? if SO THERE IS HOPE HE RETURNS TO "NORMAL " WITH US NEXT YEAR AFTER SIGNING A "HOME DISCOUNT CONTRACT EXTENSION' FOR LESS THAN
MARKET (ONCE THOUGHT) SIMPLY BECAUSE THE MARKET FOR HIM did drop GIVEN HIS LESS THAN ALL-STAR SHOWING..

at some point ONE NEEDS TO DRAW A LINE BWTWEEN MERELY CONSTANT PAY RAISING FOR NO INCREASE -IN THIS CASE A DECREASE-IN PERFORMANCE VALUE --AND actual pay value..

however THERE COULD BE OFFER SHEETCRAZIES WHO THINK THIS IS MERELY AN "off" YEAR FOR sEABROOK AND THAT THEY SHOULD IGNORE THE DROP IN PLAY AND GO AFTER HIM BECAUSE HE'LLBOUNCE BACK TO NORMAL NEXT YEAR.

sO HERE IS THE REALISSUE-LET HIM GO/TAKE THE PICKS AND BRING IN SOME VET WHO WILL BE BETTER WITH THE hAWKS THAN HE WAS WITH HIS LAST TEAM-BUT IS A MUCH MORE REASONABLE PRICE.

example: say ottawa DOESN'T RE-SIGN chris phillips...MAYBE YOU GET Phillips FOR JUST WHAT HE GOT IN oTTAWA THIS SEASON ($3.5 MILLION) MAYBE phillips REBOUNDS TO AT LEAST NO WORSE THAN sEABROOK IS THIS YEAR (EG.-5) OR DOES BEETER (IE. zero OR +5 ) WITH THE hAWKS WHO ARE A BETTER CLUB THAT WAS oTTAWA THIS YEAR..

sO YOU MUST AT SOME POINT weigh PERFORMANCE TO value AND IF seabrook JUST has TO BE RAISED FOR MARKET SAKE BECAUSE OF THE fear OF THE OFFER-SHEET AND if THAT CAUSES over_valuation--THEN YOU LET HIM GO ...OFCOURSE IF HE EALLY LOVES cHICAGO MAYBE HE TAKES THE OLD det HOMETOWN DISCOUNT TO PROVE HIS DESIRETO STAY HERE.Or IF HE TAKES THE CASH SOME IDIOT TEAM THRWS AT HIM--THEN BYE-BYE.

tHE hAWKS CANNOT GIVE everybody RAISES TO $5.5 MILLION + if THE PERFORMANCE FAILSTO MERIT IT.

an ltCONTRACT @ $4.7 MILLION PER IS ABOUT MAX i WOULD PAY FOR mR. fail to clear ...
bEYOND THAT LOOK AT OTHER OPTIONS.. a CHEAPER PROVEN VET WHO WILL GET BETTER THAN HE WAS WITH US THAN WITH HIS FORMER CLUB ..so IF sEABS WALKS ON $4.7 then WE SHOULD SEEK OUT Not A $4.7 M EQUIVALENT BUTRATHER A $3.5 "GRATEFUL" VET GLAD TO BE OUT OF HIS OLD RE-BUILDING CLUB AT THE BOTTOM,AND JOINING marketing hype 101 IN cHICAGO WHERE every GUY ON THE TEAM IS A SUPERSTAR AND DESERVES BIG PAY RAISES... sO SIGN HERE FOR $3.5 FOR 3 YEARS AND DON'T WORRY-YOU'LL MAKE IT UP IN CAR COMMERCIALS.

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01-12-2011, 02:10 PM
  #43
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If you rewrote his whole post with every letter in the opposite case, that is quite disturbing. Even if you have a program to do it, why?

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01-12-2011, 03:24 PM
  #44
Bubba88
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great work Massive

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01-12-2011, 04:06 PM
  #45
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That's dedication.

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01-13-2011, 10:47 AM
  #46
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Didnt even bother to read his post it was like battery acid in my eyes.

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01-13-2011, 11:25 AM
  #47
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Didnt even bother to read his post it was like battery acid in my eyes.

Translation: Seabrook is worth 3.5 M per year max … otherwise Hawks look elsewhere and hope.

He’ll want more than that... at least 1M more.

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01-13-2011, 01:23 PM
  #48
Hawksfan2828
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What will happen with Seabrook next season? He will be RFA and will get a big Raise.

Facts that he will come up with
- Olympic Gold
- 23 Points in 44 GP --> ~42 Point Season
- (and for the mention) Plays 1st PP Unit


I'm sure that we won't resign him with a CapHit under 5 million.


IMO, we have to options. Make a contract like the J"MF"J Deal with 7 years or longer or trade his Rights Exchange Players like Gleason + 1st + or Regher + 1st +

He would get 5.8+ million on the open market, why should he sign for 4.9 or less?


(he will also not make more than Keith, Keith is the highest Paid D-Men in the NHL)

If he get an offer sheet that will give us only a 1st+2nd+3rd, I wouldn't like it if we take the compensation. Proven Talent on 1st D Pairing >>> 1st Round Picks (and we won't get a Lottery pick)


Hope Bowman will work out a deal that is good for us. Sharp has to stay....
5.8 million?

Do you really think another team will give up (2) 1st round picks, a 2nd and a 3rd + the 5.8 mill in cap space on their roster?

The only possible way Seabrook gets anything over 5 is via arbitration, and even going that route is a slippery slope (see Niemi).

He'll get somewhere between 4 and 5 million.

Seabrook is great, however the means for another team to poach him are ludicrous and that works in Bowmans favor.

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01-13-2011, 01:36 PM
  #49
Bubba88
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still not sure if we should resign him... that's what I'm saying.


I think that he or Hjammer will have to go when we resign Sharp.

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01-13-2011, 01:50 PM
  #50
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still not sure if we should resign him... that's what I'm saying.


I think that he or Hjammer will have to go when we resign Sharp.
Or Soup er possibly Bolland...

In a couple of years I think we will have plenty of kids on ELCs who will be adequate replacements for the Bolland, Hammer or Campbell.

We also have Dylan Olson, which I think is Seabrookish...

If Seabrook does go let him get poached and take the lunacy of picks that will result from the compensation...

Also remember that Seabrook has been here for quite a while, he owns a home here and packing up and leaving in this economy (housing market) wouldnt be worth it for a couple mill difference in salary.. Selling an expensive home is difficult alone in this market but factor in your losses on it...

These guys make great money, but they're not making A-Rod type money where a million bucks is peanuts...

I guess my point is that there are a lot of factors when it comes to contracts...

I bet anything Seabrook will want a NTC/NMC tho...

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