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Using top-6 forwards to kill penalties...

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01-12-2011, 06:52 PM
  #1
CTU2fan
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Using top-6 forwards to kill penalties...

Is it worth it? The obvious pros are you're putting the best players on the ice, and in the Flyers case it's inherently viable considering that Richards, Giroux, and Carter all do a fine job killing penalties. The cons are you're cutting into the ES shifts those guys will play by using them 4-5 times a night playing a shorthanded shift.

Personally I like it. While Betts and Powe are fine PKers, the presence of Richards, Carter, or Giroux on the PK is a constant threat of a turnover and a SH chance for the Flyers. I'm not sure if there's a way to quantify it, but particularly in cases where the PP is using a forward on the point or a less-than-elite offensive d-man out there I think it's a real disruption to their PP with those guys out there.

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01-12-2011, 06:56 PM
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with our forward depth it's fine. If we only had 4 top 6 forwards or something we probably wouldn't do it.

However if we grab a 3rd line winger at the deadline, I think he should good on the PK to have another good option. Right now we have:

Richards-Giroux
Betts-Powe
Carter-Nodl

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01-12-2011, 06:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CTU2fan View Post
Is it worth it? The obvious pros are you're putting the best players on the ice, and in the Flyers case it's inherently viable considering that Richards, Giroux, and Carter all do a fine job killing penalties. The cons are you're cutting into the ES shifts those guys will play by using them 4-5 times a night playing a shorthanded shift.

Personally I like it. While Betts and Powe are fine PKers, the presence of Richards, Carter, or Giroux on the PK is a constant threat of a turnover and a SH chance for the Flyers. I'm not sure if there's a way to quantify it, but particularly in cases where the PP is using a forward on the point or a less-than-elite offensive d-man out there I think it's a real disruption to their PP with those guys out there.
I said this in another thread as i feel at some point the coach will have no choice but to put those guys more on the pk if it continues to struggle

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01-12-2011, 07:06 PM
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If you are using your best forwards to routinely kill penalties then the GM has utterly failed at signing quality role players.

Sure, you want guys like Richards out there to protect leads and key situations. But you don't want to kill his offense by having him kill penalties all game.

Also, Richards has hit a wall most seasons by being overplayed. This is less obvious with Lavy but was horrible under Stevens.

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01-12-2011, 07:32 PM
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Garbage Goal
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As far as them handling a heavy PK workload (which is different from working the PK at all) it should be a last resort as any good bottom six player should be capable of PK'ing.

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01-12-2011, 07:32 PM
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I think the amount they play now is fine though.

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01-12-2011, 07:43 PM
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Playing Lavi's system has cut down on the number of PK's (significantly, or so it seems), so I think the amount they're playing now is fine.

I'm glad to have Betts/Powe take the bigger share of the PK though.

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01-12-2011, 09:42 PM
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I think the mistake with the PK is that they've gone primarily with just two pairs.

Betts/Powe and Richards/Girouxdo 90+% of the penalty killing.

Carter/Nodl should be killing penalties as well, saves the wear & tear on them all.

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01-12-2011, 10:24 PM
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another excuse for me to drop thoresen's name again... i'm really hoping he replaces carcillo or even nodl or powe if they aren't retained/ are traded away come next season. he's a world-class penalty killer and could bring more offensively to the line up than those three imo.

edit: you can throw in Z to that mix too. superstar obviously is on the list too, but i unfortunately doubt he'll move.


Last edited by PhillyCurt12: 01-12-2011 at 10:29 PM.
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01-12-2011, 10:35 PM
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Thoreson is a scrub, lets get some one with talent

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01-13-2011, 05:41 AM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan View Post
I think the mistake with the PK is that they've gone primarily with just two pairs.

Betts/Powe and Richards/Girouxdo 90+% of the penalty killing.

Carter/Nodl should be killing penalties as well, saves the wear & tear on them all.
I'd like to see this as well.

Edit: Though, I think I'd try and switch Nödl to play with Betts and have Powe together with Carter. Just have a feeling they'd fit each other better.


Last edited by mirimon: 01-13-2011 at 06:49 AM.
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01-13-2011, 05:44 AM
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Thoresen has talent, just no finish. Similar to Nodl really

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01-13-2011, 07:34 AM
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he's been one of the best forwards offensively in the KHL. even if he hasn't found his scoring touch for the NHL, i think he would easily surpass the production of powe, carcillo, and probably even nodl if given top-9 minutes. but i doubt it happens. i just have a big time man-crush on him... love his heart.

edits seem to be my theme: homer will be due for another khl signing lol


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01-13-2011, 09:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hovercraft View Post
Thoresen has talent, just no finish. Similar to Nodl really
Well, Nodl has been a pleasant surprise this year. Thoresen could be another pleasant surprise if we don't expect much from him. Low expectations = pleasant surprise usually

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01-13-2011, 09:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hovercraft View Post
Thoresen has talent, just no finish. Similar to Manderville really
Slight fix. Neither was put on the team to score goals, but to prevent them - especially on the PK.

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01-13-2011, 10:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlieGirl View Post
Playing Lavi's system has cut down on the number of PK's (significantly, or so it seems), so I think the amount they're playing now is fine.

I'm glad to have Betts/Powe take the bigger share of the PK though.
Heh.

The Flyers are still near the top of the league in times shorthanded.

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01-13-2011, 10:31 AM
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Thor has become quite the scorer over in europe

http://hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=62297

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01-13-2011, 10:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hovercraft View Post
Thor has become quite the scorer over in europe

http://hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=62297
Getting checked... his only weakness.

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01-13-2011, 10:39 AM
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Yeah it takes less balls to be successful over there...

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01-13-2011, 11:31 AM
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I'm definitely on board with using Carter more and balancing the PK work between 3 pairs. It helps that no one on the Briere line would ever see any PK time, so after a kill Lavi can always come back with those guys.

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01-13-2011, 12:09 PM
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Yeah it takes less balls to be successful over there...
Man, that was a low blow.

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01-13-2011, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by LEIFey View Post
Well, Nodl has been a pleasant surprise this year. Thoresen could be another pleasant surprise if we don't expect much from him. Low expectations = pleasant surprise usually
I had low expectations for Shelley. I'm still disappointed

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01-13-2011, 12:50 PM
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flountown
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I don't mind our Top 6 guys getting less even strength, because that ES time goes directly to the Briere-Hartnell-Leino line,which seems to be our best ES line. Richards,Giroux and Carter will make up their time on the PK by getting PP time.

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01-13-2011, 02:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sobrien View Post
I had low expectations for Shelley. I'm still disappointed
I don't hate Shelley as a goon. He is a better hockey player than Cote, but he makes double what he should and 3 years is crazy. And he shouldnt play every game

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01-13-2011, 03:39 PM
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CTU2fan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hovercraft View Post
I don't hate Shelley as a goon. He is a better hockey player than Cote, but he makes double what he should and 3 years is crazy. And he shouldnt play every game
Yeah, he's actually a little better player than I expected. But what disappointed me is I expected him to be a dominant fighter and he's not. I should have known, those guys tend to not age very well.

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