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Old
01-13-2011, 05:15 PM
  #76
y2kcanucks
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
What about the Tyler Myers movie? Did you want the Canucks to draft Myers?
Yes but how many times do you hear of a mammoth defenseman actually making an impact? It's very seldom.

I would actually wager that the amount of mammoths that make an impact in the NHL are about equal to the amount of tiny players who do.

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01-13-2011, 05:19 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Pauser View Post
I've seen this movie before. See: Vladimir Mihalik and Boris Valabik. Both monsters in frame, both former first round picks (Valabik drafted 10th overall), neither are NHL calibre players.

What's funny is you can't use the "oh but if he were Canadian you'd love him" crap that I've seen you and others pull on me many other times, because Oleksiak IS Canadian. I still don't want him.
*sigh* What's the point of me even responding to you when you know nothing about Oleksiak. The fact that you chose to compare him to Mihalik and Valabik just further illustrates how little you know.

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01-13-2011, 05:21 PM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pauser View Post
Yes but how many times do you hear of a mammoth defenseman actually making an impact? It's very seldom.

I would actually wager that the amount of mammoths that make an impact in the NHL are about equal to the amount of tiny players who do.
Well yeah, that's because people who are 6'6+ are rare, let alone legit players.

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01-13-2011, 05:23 PM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pauser View Post
Yes but how many times do you hear of a mammoth defenseman actually making an impact? It's very seldom.

I would actually wager that the amount of mammoths that make an impact in the NHL are about equal to the amount of tiny players who do.
What were your thoughts on Tyler Myers? Were you hoping the Canucks would draft him?

I don't claim to know much of anything about this coming draft but if a guy is 6'7, skates well and has good hockey IQ it's an intriguing pick IMO. The guy would cover a ton of ice...

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01-13-2011, 05:28 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by alesmarv View Post
So to say someone is a poor mans Chara isnt saying much.
?

I said he would develop into a poor man's Chara, not that he was where Chara was when he was 18.

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01-13-2011, 10:24 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
*sigh* What's the point of me even responding to you when you know nothing about Oleksiak. The fact that you chose to compare him to Mihalik and Valabik just further illustrates how little you know.
Too true.

I know i've been pimping Oleksiak out in the Prospects thread, probably much to Tiranis's ire. But I do feel he is a quality prospect. Would i select him in the 1st round? Depends. Drafts shaping up with impact forwards in the 25-30 range.

Oleksiak is not another Valabik, who suffered from poor skating and decision making. Oleksiak moves well for a guy his size and skates more like a Myers than a Valabik. He has a lower, long stride and pretty mobile, but can always be improved. However, i don't think at this point you can say he has the offensive mind as Myers has. Oleksiak is much more defensive-minded, but i think he has recently been playing on the PP a bit. Many Northeastern fans have said that he has been their most steady and defensively sound defenseman this season. Pretty good for a guy who has just turned 18 less than a month ago.

Heres one video (just a NU game recap, but you can see one of his two goals this season):


He is #6. He leads his team in plus minus with +7, team average is -1, and he plays 2nd pairing atm.

That said, there are many forwards i'm liking this draft and think there may be a chance to get a quality defender in the 2nd (Pining for Klefbom!)

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01-14-2011, 02:41 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by thefeebster View Post
Too true.

I know i've been pimping Oleksiak out in the Prospects thread, probably much to Tiranis's ire. But I do feel he is a quality prospect. Would i select him in the 1st round? Depends. Drafts shaping up with impact forwards in the 25-30 range.

Oleksiak is not another Valabik, who suffered from poor skating and decision making. Oleksiak moves well for a guy his size and skates more like a Myers than a Valabik. He has a lower, long stride and pretty mobile, but can always be improved. However, i don't think at this point you can say he has the offensive mind as Myers has. Oleksiak is much more defensive-minded, but i think he has recently been playing on the PP a bit. Many Northeastern fans have said that he has been their most steady and defensively sound defenseman this season. Pretty good for a guy who has just turned 18 less than a month ago.

Heres one video (just a NU game recap, but you can see one of his two goals this season):


He is #6. He leads his team in plus minus with +7, team average is -1, and he plays 2nd pairing atm.

That said, there are many forwards i'm liking this draft and think there may be a chance to get a quality defender in the 2nd (Pining for Klefbom!)
Without knowing anything about Oleksiak, and just watching that clip. I would say he does skate pretty well for a 6'7" dman.

However, one thing that stood out from that video was the competition, much weaker competition than the WHL Tyer Myers was playing in. And Myers's development after his draft year was epic. He was simply used as a stay at home dman at the WJC but by the memorial cup was a dominant 2-way dman.

So oleksiak looks like the high risk/high reward project type.

You seem to know a lot about the prospects for the upcoming draft. Which forwards do you like?

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01-14-2011, 05:58 AM
  #83
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hard to say until draft day really comes and we know where exactly the Canucks draft, what players are still on the board, and what deals might be on the table.


but as a general rule, BPA is the way to go...try to catch a slider? although i'll add the disclaimer that this draft looks like it has a good top end, but by the time the Canucks are likely to be picking...there's hardly a consensus BPA. given that, i'd definitely put my emphasis on the most skilled/intelligent forward available who has decent size. not necessarily 'drafting for size' in the strictest sense, but we really could use a bigger winger in the system. but depending on how things shake out...i'd take the most highly skilled forward available who is over 6ft or so.

and i do believe up-front is the way to go. we don't have that bonafide superstar defensive prospect in our system...but we do have quite a growing collection of potential NHLers at that position who are 'projects' in general. so likely picking in the bottom of the 1st round, the players there are likely all going to be more 'projects', rather than surefire top-line/top-pairing players...would rather add to our offensive prospect pool where we essentially have Hodgson as a top guy...with undersized projects like Shirokov, Schroeder, and Rodin, to go with our bigger projects who generally aren't all that highly skilled. Feels like we could REALLY used a bigger guy with the potential to at least be a semi-skilled NHLer playing 2nd/3rd line sort of role.

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Old
01-15-2011, 12:17 AM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ahmon View Post
Without knowing anything about Oleksiak, and just watching that clip. I would say he does skate pretty well for a 6'7" dman.

However, one thing that stood out from that video was the competition, much weaker competition than the WHL Tyer Myers was playing in. And Myers's development after his draft year was epic. He was simply used as a stay at home dman at the WJC but by the memorial cup was a dominant 2-way dman.

So oleksiak looks like the high risk/high reward project type.

You seem to know a lot about the prospects for the upcoming draft. Which forwards do you like?
Well Northeastern plays in Hockey East, which is arguably the hardest conferences in the NCAA. But the WCHA is right there with them (the conference UMinn (Schroeder) played in) and the CCHA. Level of competition shouldn't be too large of a concern here.

Yes, i'd agree a higher risk pick, if selected in the 1st. I see a team reaching on him, simply based on size, but if he's available at 30 i'd definitely put him into high consideration.

Another D man i do like is Musil and can see him falling for a little bit longer. He has a deep bone bruise, just like we saw Hamhuis struggle with for a good 2-3 weeks after he came back. So maybe he doesn't play as well and drops on a few teams lists, but just my speculation. Some recent news: http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/M...117/story.html

Some forwards i am leaning towards (assuming we draft from 22-30 range):

I like Dan Catenacci. I think he is ranked lower due to his size, but he has the heart and compete level of a pro. He skates miles and tries to really outwork other players. He plays a two-way kind of game - can be a shut-down center if need be too. Coach used him to shut down Seguin last year (don't know how that worked out). But thats also a concern, some are wondering what he will translate to in the future? He plays with a physical edge and leadership intangibles.

From Brock:
Quote:
#7 - Daniel Catenacci (Draft Eligible in 2011)
He was probably the best player on the ice. Catenacci showcased tremendous speed, and really disrupts play at both ends of the ice. He also got under the skin of the Majors players (got Derek Shoenmakers VERY angry on one shift where he got his stick up a little high). I was especially impressed by his play in his own end. He has a really active stick and is constantly buzzing around trying to cause a turnover. He also seems pretty fearless and drives hard to the net, creating plays for his teammates. One of those drives started the play that ended up as Hounds first goal by Omelyaneko. Colour me very impressed.
A guy i am just praying (probably to no avail) will be there is Mark McNeill. Just a great overall package - size, instincts at both ends, physical, can fight, plus score. I think Tiranis really likes him. I would like to see more of Jaskin, but he sounds very intriguing.

A lot of OHL guys like the two Russians Khokhlachev and Namestnikov. I know MG doesn't really like Russians, but i feel one of them will be in our range as some mocks have shown, but it depends because i hear varying opinions. Some say Koko is a better player, one of the youngest players in the draft, can take over games and plays a more "Canadian" type of game, but sometimes disappears. Namestnikkov should really be a Canadian russian ashe has been living in north america for most of his life and speaks really flawless english. But he has not really had a good impression on some b/c he does not have good strength and has up until recently not been putting as impressive stats as Koko. Opinion is really mixed on these two.

Others creeping up are Rakell, Jensen (Hansen needs more Danes!), Hudon (want to hear more about him), Salomaki. Some D men in the 2nd are Percy, Klefbom, Ouellet, and Scarlett.

For the later rounds, some names i'm keeping an eye on
-Brent Benson
-Jeremy Boyce
-Michael Paliotta
-Joakim Ryan
-Mike Mersch
-David Broll
-Spencer Abraham
-Jordan Auld
-Dylan Demelo
-Marek Tvrdon
-Tanner Sorenson
-Travis Boyd
-Reid Boucher
-Patrik Noren
-Sami Salminen
-Pascal Zerressen (If Zepp reads this, find me some articles about this guy!)
-Colin Sullivan
-Seth Griffith
-Mike McKee

Some passed over
-Adam Pettersson
-John Norman
-Klas Dahlbeck
-Marek Hrivik
-Michael Houser
-Mike Pereira
-Mat Petgrave EDIT: had to add him.


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Old
01-16-2011, 09:52 AM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thefeebster View Post
For the later rounds, some names i'm keeping an eye on
-Pascal Zerressen (If Zepp reads this, find me some articles about this guy!)
Some Informations to Pascal Zerressen
Pascal Zerressen ist a german hockey Player. He is 18 Years old (born in Tönisvorst at 22. November 1992) and he shoots left. He play since 2010 for the Krefeld Penguins in the German Hockey League (DEL). His first professional contract amounts including club side options by the year 2015.

The 6.05 height and 220 weight Defenceman began his career 2001 in Krefeld (Germany). In the running season he played 19 games for the Krefeld Penguins in the first German Hockey League (DEL). On account of his young age he still plays in the German Junior League (DNL). In this season Pascal Zerressen collected 9 goals and 28 assists, whole 37 points over 26 games, so he is ranking at first position by Junior Defenceman in Germany. At the same time he plays with a support license for the Team EC Bad Nauheim in the third German Hockey League (Oberliga). In 10 games he collected 2 assists.

The Defenceman played for the German U16, U17 and U18 National Team. In 2010 he win the Gold medal with the German U18 National Team by the U18 World Junior Championships in Poland (Division I).

Christian Ehrhoff, who play currently for the Vancouver Cunucks in the National Hockey League, played many years in Germany for the Team in Krefeld.

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Old
01-16-2011, 10:34 AM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thefeebster View Post
For the later rounds, some names i'm keeping an eye on
-Pascal Zerressen (If Zepp reads this, find me some articles about this guy!)
Some Informations about Pascal Zerressen

Pascal Zerressen is a german hockey Player. He is 18 Years old (born in Tönisvorst at 22. November 1992) and he shoots left. He play since 2010 for the Krefeld Penguins in the German Hockey League (DEL). His first professional contract amounts including club side options by the year 2015.

The 6.05 height and 220 weight Defenseman began his career 2001 in Krefeld (Germany). In the running season he played 19 games for the Krefeld Penguins in the first German Hockey League (DEL). On account of his young age he still plays in the German Junior League (DNL). In this season Pascal Zerressen collected 9 goals and 28 assists, whole 37 points over 26 games, so he is ranking at first position by Junior Defenceman in Germany. At the same time he plays with a support license for the Team EC Bad Nauheim in the third German Hockey League (Oberliga). In 10 games he collected 2 assists.

The Defenseman played for the German U16, U17 and U18 National Team. In 2010 he win the Gold medal with the German U18 National Team by the U18 World Junior Championships in Poland (Division I).

Christian Ehrhoff, who play currently for the Vancouver Cunucks in the National Hockey League, played many years in Krefeld in the same Team like Pascal Zerressen.

http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=42705
http://portal.krefeld-pinguine.de/in...id=135&lang=de


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01-16-2011, 12:07 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Blane Youngblood View Post
Guys projected to go in the 2nd round get drafted in the top 5 somewhat regularly.
Seems nobody picked up on this gem, so - please name the last five players drafted in the top five that were projected by most scouts to go outside of the top thirty.

In fairness, if you have to go back before this decade, you can name prospects that were projected to go outside of the top [however many NHL teams there were at the time].

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01-17-2011, 06:57 PM
  #88
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http://www.tsn.ca/draftcentre/feature/?id=36559

McKenzie's top 60.

After watching the top 30 special, Boone Jenner seems like a Gillis type pick. David Musil at 27 would be a great late round pick as well.

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01-17-2011, 07:28 PM
  #89
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If Im' the Canucks, I'm drafting speed and hockey IQ above all else among forwards, drafting a centre seems to be a must. HOw good is this Koklachev kid with Windsor? #s are very impressive for a kid who just turned 17.

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01-17-2011, 09:46 PM
  #90
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Why thank you germanhockey. Do you have some insight into how he plays? Noticed he has quite a long contract over there. 12/13 +2 years?

A busy week MacKenzie's rankings, CHL prospects game, and ISS January should be out this week.

MacKenzie's rankings are a bit of a surprise, a lot of swedes that are rarely seen in the 1st - Rask, Rakell, and Zibanejad, which really pushes down some solid players like Musil, McNeil, and the Russians (Khokhlachev & Namestikov) as i refer to them. Bob even recognizes that his lists usually have Russian players higher than they tend to go. So a slight fall for these two guys isn't out of the question.

Other surprises: the rise of Oleksiak. It looks like his solid play and size are propelling him to the high 20s. Also surprising was what Bob said about Catenacci. He said that he had some scouts with varying opinions on him - some said he was top 15 talent, others had him in the late 2nd. What a difference an inch or two makes.

For reports about Jenner, the Russians, read this mid-term overview by the scouting report. Brief but to the point - http://www.thescoutingreport.org/201...ankings-part1/

Also, this is from Brock:
Quote:
7. Alexander Khokhlachev - Windsor Spitfires
Received Votes From: 5 out of 6
Highest Placement: 5th
Preliminary Ranking: 5th
Comments: Left off the Top Prospect's Game roster, you have to wonder if us (the OHL fanatics) are overrating him in comparison with NHL scouts. The obvious reason is his size, as one contributor points out. "He's small at a position where NHL teams seem to be looking for the next Ryan Getzlaf, which is probably why he's not generating nearly as much NHL attention." But what he lacks in size, he makes up for in dazzle, as one contributor points out. "(He's) a dynamic game-breaker that has the stuff NHL teams drool over. If he can maintain the offensive pace over the season's second half, then I think he moves up the list. He's a better offensive player than Namestnikov, but I want to make sure he can sustain it." However one contributor thinks the size concerns are a bunch of hooey. "He may be small, but he doesn't play small. He's fearless on the ice and isn't afraid to take a hit to score a goal or create a scoring chance."
http://ohlprospects.blogspot.com/201...p-10-part.html

Even more tantalizing, we could possibly have a combo in the 1st 2 rounds of Musil - Klefbom, Catenacci - Bell, Jensen - Percy... I would also really like to see Jaskin drop to us


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01-17-2011, 10:33 PM
  #91
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As has been said many times, all it takes is one team to have a player higher than the consensus — and in case of Jaskin, McNeill, Musil, St. Croix it's IMO going to be a lot higher than listed.

I'll say one thing, I don't want Canucks to be the team that drafts Boone Jenner or Colin Jacobs, two prospects that I can't stand and don't get how they're anywhere close to the first round. Jenner can't skate, period.

Also still confused how scouts can question Catenacci's size... there's plenty of NHL-level 3rd liners that are 5'10 and 190-200lbs, I don't see why his size is such a big deal... especially when you factor in his work ethic and skating.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Outside99 View Post
If Im' the Canucks, I'm drafting speed and hockey IQ above all else among forwards, drafting a centre seems to be a must. HOw good is this Koklachev kid with Windsor? #s are very impressive for a kid who just turned 17.
The concerns for me are: a) consistency, b) sometimes work ethic, c) size and strength. And I think that that last point is a deal-breaker.

---

If you gave me the pick, I would pick a guy with size and skill... it's not often that you can get that combination in the 25 -30 range without significant downsides and we should be taking advantage of this. Nicklas Jensen, Mark McNeill, Dmitri Jaskin, Mika Zibanejad are all good players that might still be available (and don't have glaring weaknesses)... or not, hard to tell right now. The next group would be guys like Catenacci, Namestnikov, Khokhlachev, etc. As for defencemen, I think Klefbom might rise to the first round as the year goes on... Oleksiak is not a bad pick depending on who else is available (I would pick him over the Russians for example).


Last edited by Tiranis: 01-17-2011 at 10:53 PM.
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01-17-2011, 11:26 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
As has been said many times, all it takes is one team to have a player higher than the consensus — and in case of Jaskin, McNeill, Musil, St. Croix it's IMO going to be a lot higher than listed.

I'll say one thing, I don't want Canucks to be the team that drafts Boone Jenner or Colin Jacobs, two prospects that I can't stand and don't get how they're anywhere close to the first round. Jenner can't skate, period.

Also still confused how scouts can question Catenacci's size... there's plenty of NHL-level 3rd liners that are 5'10 and 190-200lbs, I don't see why his size is such a big deal... especially when you factor in his work ethic and skating.



The concerns for me are: a) consistency, b) sometimes work ethic, c) size and strength. And I think that that last point is a deal-breaker.

---

If you gave me the pick, I would pick a guy with size and skill... it's not often that you can get that combination in the 25 -30 range without significant downsides and we should be taking advantage of this. Nicklas Jensen, Mark McNeill, Dmitri Jaskin, Mika Zibanejad are all good players that might still be available (and don't have glaring weaknesses)... or not, hard to tell right now. The next group would be guys like Catenacci, Namestnikov, Khokhlachev, etc. As for defencemen, I think Klefbom might rise to the first round as the year goes on... Oleksiak is not a bad pick depending on who else is available (I would pick him over the Russians for example).
Thanks for the feedback on Khokhlachev

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01-18-2011, 02:02 AM
  #93
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Canucks will be drafting a player with their pick that will be ranked 10-15 in the final mock Bob McKenzie mock draft.

Book it.

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01-18-2011, 04:01 PM
  #94
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Mark Mcneil has all the attributes that I would like to see in a 1st round pick coming to Vancouver.

Another guy who is getting some buzz, JT Miller of the USNTDP has drawn comparisons to Kesler...6'1" 198lbs.

I just think that Victor Rask is going to be a guy who drops (he is already dropping from his once top 5 ranking), and Gradin and Gillis will grab him because of hockey smarts and character, even though there will be more skill on the board.

I wouldnt be too sad about Rask, but I would like to see McNeil more.

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01-18-2011, 05:07 PM
  #95
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I still think if he's available at 30 (assuming we pick 30) that Seth Ambroz is the way to go. He would be the type of forward prospect our system lacks, and I just can't see a guy who was ranked top 5 just losing all of that talent in half a season. If he wasn't talented, he never would have been ranked that high to begin with, and while mistakes were made I don't think what he's done this year has necessarily warranted a drop from 5 to 50.

Musil is another guy who's dropping in the rankings as he was originally a top 5 rank too (by ISS). If both are available, I don't think you can really go wrong with either player.

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01-18-2011, 05:27 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by Pauser View Post
I still think if he's available at 30 (assuming we pick 30) that Seth Ambroz is the way to go. He would be the type of forward prospect our system lacks, and I just can't see a guy who was ranked top 5 just losing all of that talent in half a season. If he wasn't talented, he never would have been ranked that high to begin with, and while mistakes were made I don't think what he's done this year has necessarily warranted a drop from 5 to 50.

Musil is another guy who's dropping in the rankings as he was originally a top 5 rank too (by ISS). If both are available, I don't think you can really go wrong with either player.
John McFarland ring a bell, Pauser???

The pack catches up sometimes....it always happens.

I would say no to Ambroz anywhere between 25-30, if you can get him with your 2nd OK.

Musil on the other hand, he already has great chemistry with Connauton, excellent size, wingspan, range, pedigree etc. If he is there at hopefully 30th overall he would definately not be a bad pick.....at worst he is a NHL defensman.

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01-18-2011, 05:30 PM
  #97
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Musil and Ambroz are falling for different reasons. The former is falling because he has not lived up to extremely high expectations, mostly offensively, but he's still progressing; the latter is falling (a ton) because he looks to have reached his ceiling and looks like a pretty risky pick at this point.

I love it that a page ago you were arguing against picking a guy that's been able to get by on his size, a page later you're arguing for drafting a player who has been getting by on his size and has shown little else in terms of development.

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01-18-2011, 05:39 PM
  #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arsmaster View Post
John McFarland ring a bell, Pauser???

The pack catches up sometimes....it always happens.

I would say no to Ambroz anywhere between 25-30, if you can get him with your 2nd OK.

Musil on the other hand, he already has great chemistry with Connauton, excellent size, wingspan, range, pedigree etc. If he is there at hopefully 30th overall he would definately not be a bad pick.....at worst he is a NHL defensman.
Possibly.

I wouldn't give up on McFarland alltogether and do think he has talent. I probably would have taken a flier on him in the last 1st round too.

Ambroz is a bit of a high potential pick with a high floor. He'll either be a top power forward, or he'll be a gritty bottom 6 enforcer type. Either way, I think he's likely to play in the NHL.

I'd be very happy if we got Musil. I'd also be very surprised if he dropped to us.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
Musil and Ambroz are falling for different reasons. The former is falling because he has not lived up to extremely high expectations, mostly offensively, but he's still progressing; the latter is falling (a ton) because he looks to have reached his ceiling and looks like a pretty risky pick at this point.

I love it that a page ago you were arguing against picking a guy that's been able to get by on his size, a page later you're arguing for drafting a player who has been getting by on his size and has shown little else in terms of development.
There's a difference between forwards and defensemen. If Ambroz doesn't pan out as a prolific scorer and power forward, he still has the potential to be a bottom 6 forward with grit, similar to a Raffi Torres role, whereas if Oleksiak doesn't pan out there aren't enough spots on a teams defense that would allow him a niche role. It's possible he could be a sufficient bottom pairing defenseman if he doesn't pan out as a top 4 guy, but there's only 2 of those spots as opposed to 6 forward spots.

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01-18-2011, 05:41 PM
  #99
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Another player who's stock seems to be falling (at least by ISS rankings) is Victor Rask. He's currently ranked 14th, but his downward trend suggests that could continue to fall for some reason as the draft approaches. Anyone know why? From what little I saw of him at the WJC he actually looked quite skilled.

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01-18-2011, 07:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pauser View Post
Possibly.

There's a difference between forwards and defensemen. If Ambroz doesn't pan out as a prolific scorer and power forward, he still has the potential to be a bottom 6 forward with grit, similar to a Raffi Torres role, whereas if Oleksiak doesn't pan out there aren't enough spots on a teams defense that would allow him a niche role. It's possible he could be a sufficient bottom pairing defenseman if he doesn't pan out as a top 4 guy, but there's only 2 of those spots as opposed to 6 forward spots.
Isn't the main knock on Ambroz that his skating is terrible (and hasn't improved)? We just sent a guy back to the minors for that reason (Desbiens), and most here hope not to see him lineup as a Canuck again. At least with Oleksiak you'd be gambling on a giant guy who can skate, not to mention seeing him play at a much higher level (NCAA vs USHL) should make the player more of a known quantity.

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