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Old
01-15-2011, 12:05 AM
  #101
Johnny Hoxville
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Originally Posted by FLAMES666 View Post
Really you think they could have 5 years of good production with Iggy being 33 and him 30. That is not a top line that makes you a contender!
Yes I do. Henrik and Daniel Sedin are the exact same age as Vinny. He is not even that old, my God he is only 30! In five years from now he will be 35, and Iggy will be 38. Look at how productive Briere, Selanne, and Smyth are still playing this year. I have no doubt at all that Iginla will still be in top physical form at the age of 38 and still capable of getting around 70 points at that age IF he is playing with an elite centre. Mark Recchi is another example, look how well he did when playing with Crosby, and Crosby said at the time he was the best winger he has played with.

If you are a top athlete, 30-35 is really not that old. Will your production slow somewhat, sure. But that does not mean that you cannot produce. I really think Iginla could revitalize Lecavalier, just like he did with Langkow, Conroy and Cammalleri. Lecavalier is not old, both he and Iginla have lots of gas left in the tank. I would love for the Flames to go out and aquire someone like Toews to play with Iggy, but no way in hell is that going to happen. This may be their best option to try and win with Iginla.

Just for the record, in a perfect world if I were the Flames GM, I would be on the phone right now trying to make a trade to send Iginla to LA to aquire Schenn, Simmonds and a draft pick. Long term, I think that is the best way for the Flames to go. Then I would try and flip Bourque to the B's to aquire Wheeler and Colborne. Then procede over the next couple of seasons to remove the rest of the dead weight on this roster that does not meet expectations, but that is way easier said than done.

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01-15-2011, 10:57 AM
  #102
Stewie Griffin
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I'm not sold on the Lecavallier idea just because of the contract length. Might be better off pursuing Brad Richards on July 1 and pursue a trade with TB as "Plan B"

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01-15-2011, 11:06 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Stewie Griffin View Post
I'm not sold on the Lecavallier idea just because of the contract length. Might be better off pursuing Brad Richards on July 1 and pursue a trade with TB as "Plan B"
thats always possible too... but since Richards will be the only 1st line center on the market his contract will be very ugly and will be 32 when he hits UFA status... i think you see Richards sign a 7 or 8 year deal with an okay cap hit this summer... or a 3 or 4 year deal at a very high cap hit

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01-15-2011, 11:26 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Lunatik View Post
thats always possible too... but since Richards will be the only 1st line center on the market his contract will be very ugly and will be 32 when he hits UFA status... i think you see Richards sign a 7 or 8 year deal with an okay cap hit this summer... or a 3 or 4 year deal at a very high cap hit
I'm wondering if we'll see Richards sign somewhere with the same type of deal as Savard?

Savard's deal was...

7 years - $28,050,000


33 - 2010-11 $7,000,000 — $4,007,143
34 - 2011-12 $7,000,000 — $4,007,143
35 - 2012-13 $6,500,000 — $4,007,143
36 - 2013-14 $5,000,000 — $4,007,143
37 - 2014-15 $1,500,000 — $4,007,143
38 - 2015-16 $525,000 — $4,007,143
39 - 2016-17 $525,000 — $4,007,143

If he wanted he could retire after 36 and leave only $2.5 million behind, or after 37 and leave only $1 million behind.

Also the NTC is only good through 2013-14, and only "partial" from July 1st of this year until July 1st, 2014.

I could definitely see Richards ending up with a deal something like this.

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01-15-2011, 12:14 PM
  #105
Johnny Hoxville
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BurnEmUp View Post
I'm wondering if we'll see Richards sign somewhere with the same type of deal as Savard?

Savard's deal was...

7 years - $28,050,000


33 - 2010-11 $7,000,000 — $4,007,143
34 - 2011-12 $7,000,000 — $4,007,143
35 - 2012-13 $6,500,000 — $4,007,143
36 - 2013-14 $5,000,000 — $4,007,143
37 - 2014-15 $1,500,000 — $4,007,143
38 - 2015-16 $525,000 — $4,007,143
39 - 2016-17 $525,000 — $4,007,143

If he wanted he could retire after 36 and leave only $2.5 million behind, or after 37 and leave only $1 million behind.

Also the NTC is only good through 2013-14, and only "partial" from July 1st of this year until July 1st, 2014.

I could definitely see Richards ending up with a deal something like this.
I doubt after the Kovalchuk fiasco that we'll see alot of contracts like this. Luongo, Savard and I believe Pronger were supposedly going to be under investigation for their contracts and there was a risk that their contracts could of been voided. Anyone can plainly see what the objective of a front loaded contract is. It is a way around the salary cap. I think teams are going to be too scared to do this on a big scale after Kovy, and I think this will be taken out of the next CBA.


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01-15-2011, 12:24 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by MVW View Post
I doubt after the Kovalchuk fiasco that we'll see alot of contracts like this. Luongo, Savard and I believe Pronger were supposedly going to be under investigation for their contracts and there was a risk that their contracts could of been voided. Anyone can plainly see what the objective of front loaded contract is. It is a way around the salary cap. I think teams are going to be too scared to do this on a big scale after Kovy, and I think this will be taken out of the next CBA.
I see what you are saying, and agree with most of it.....however.....

Let's just say Richards signs the exact same deal as Savard that I listed above, going to be pretty hard for the league to say anything about it when they already OK'ed the Savard deal, and when the contract would only take Richards to the age of 38, as opposed to 40+ like some of these other deals around the league do.

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01-15-2011, 12:29 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by BurnEmUp View Post
I see what you are saying, and agree with most of it.....however.....

Let's just say Richards signs the exact same deal as Savard that I listed above, going to be pretty hard for the league to say anything about it when they already OK'ed the Savard deal, and when the contract would only take Richards to the age of 38, as opposed to 40+ like some of these other deals around the league do.


Kovy's contract wasn't much different and it was voided.

Things change over time.

Savard's contract would not pass today.

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Old
01-15-2011, 12:32 PM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunatik View Post
thats always possible too... but since Richards will be the only 1st line center on the market his contract will be very ugly and will be 32 when he hits UFA status... i think you see Richards sign a 7 or 8 year deal with an okay cap hit this summer... or a 3 or 4 year deal at a very high cap hit
I think Richards will get a Thorton or Marleau type of deal on the open market for 4 years. I would rather Lecavalier for that money because he is younger and I really think his drop in production has everything to do with the role that he is playing in Tampa. If you watch him play, you can tell he is still an elite player. I think a change of scenery would do his game wonders.

Although I will say with Vinny, his contract length is scary if it doesn't pan out and he has had some injuries so there is some risk there. But I have a hard time imagining him and Iginla not being PPG players playing together. I think he would be our best option if the Flames retool around Iggy.


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01-15-2011, 12:37 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by slappipappi View Post
Kovy's contract wasn't much different and it was voided.

Things change over time.

Savard's contract would not pass today.

Kovy's contract wasn't much different?

lol, it was for 17 years and took him until he was 44 years old....and he was to receive only $550,000 real money for each of the last FIVE years of that deal.

Huge, huge, huge difference.

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01-15-2011, 01:31 PM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BurnEmUp View Post
I see what you are saying, and agree with most of it.....however.....

Let's just say Richards signs the exact same deal as Savard that I listed above, going to be pretty hard for the league to say anything about it when they already OK'ed the Savard deal, and when the contract would only take Richards to the age of 38, as opposed to 40+ like some of these other deals around the league do.
True enough. But the league seems to be really be cracking down on this sort of thing now and I am sure if they can find any sort of loop holes to prevent these types of contracts from here on in then they will.

Kipper's contract is legit, and it makes sense. But some of these other contracts are totally taking advantage of the CBA and thats what the league whats to get rid of. Kovy's intial contract signing was the last straw.

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01-15-2011, 03:29 PM
  #111
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Between now and Deadline:

To Colorado - Cory Sarich
To Calgary - 2011 2nd Round Draft Pick

Avs have injuries on the blueline, get 'em while they're desperate.

----

To Atlanta - Matt Stajan
To Calgary - 2011 3rd Round Draft Pick, Mid-level Prospect (Akim Aliu?)

Thrashers could really use a #2 passing center who can win face-offs and be solid defensively.

----

To Pittsburgh - Niklas Hagman, Rene Bourque
To Calgary - Jordan Staal, Tyler Kennedy, Eric Godard

Pittsburgh upgrades Malkin's wingers.

----

Also try to trade Staios, Pardy and Morrison for 2011 Draft Picks.


Re-sign UFA's:

Alex Tanguay - 3 Years - $3,333,333 per
Curtis Glencross - 3 Years - $2,000,000 per
Anton Babchuk - 1 Year - $1,750,000
Henrik Karlsson - 1 Year - $650,000

Off-season UFA Signings:

Jussi Jokinen - 5 Years - $3,750,000 per

Brad Richards - 7 Years - $4,714,286 per

Breakdown:

2011/12 - 32 - $7,000,000
2012/13 - 33 - $7,000,000
2013/14 - 34 - $6,000,000
2014/15 - 35 - $6,000,000
2015/16 - 36 - $4,000,000
2016/17 - 37 - $2,000,000
2017/18 - 38 - $1,000,000

Total - $33,000,000 - NTC Until July 1st 2015

Re-sign RFA's:

Tyler Kennedy - 3 Years - $1,200,000 per
Brendan Mikkelson - 1 Year - $600,000
Matt Pelech - 1 Year - $600,000

Sign Tim Erixon to ELC - 3 Years - $975,000 per

2011 Draft Picks:

1st - Flames
2nd - Avalanche
3rd - Thrashers
4th - Flames
5th - Flames
6th - Flames
7th - Flames



Line-up 2011/12:

FORWARDS
1. Alex Tanguay ($3.333m) / Brad Richards ($4.714m) / Jarome Iginla ($7.000m)
2. Olli Jokinen ($3.000m) / Jordan Staal ($4.000m) / Jussi Jokinen ($3.750m)
3. Curtis Glencross ($2.000m) / Mikael Backlund ($1.270m) / Tyler Kennedy ($1.200m)
4. Tom Kostopoulos ($0.916m) / David Moss ($1.300m) / Tim Jackman ($0.550m)
Extra - Raitis Ivanans ($0.600m)

DEFENSEMEN
1. Robyn Regehr ($4.020m) / Jay Bouwmeester ($6.680m)
2. Mark Giordano ($4.020m) / Matt Pelech ($0.600m)
3. Tim Erixon ($0.975m) / Anton Babchuk ($1.750m)
Extra - Brendan Mikkelson ($0.600m)

GOALTENDERS
1. Miikka Kiprusoff ($5.833m)
2. Henrik Karlsson ($0.650m)

BUYOUTS: Nigel Dawes ($0.141m)

SALARY CAP: $62,400,000
CAP PAYROLL: $58,905,119
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $3,494,881

This doesn't take into account Ales Kotalik. His buy-out would be $1,000,000 against the cap for two years, or give him another chance, and if he comes to camp in great shape, and doesn't get injured then we can likely squeak him onto the roster. Otherwise we loan him to a team in Europe (ala Huet).


Last edited by BurnEmUp: 01-15-2011 at 03:35 PM.
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01-15-2011, 04:34 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by BurnEmUp View Post
To Atlanta - Matt Stajan
To Calgary - 2011 3rd Round Draft Pick, Mid-level Prospect (Akim Aliu?)

Thrashers could really use a #2 passing center who can win face-offs and be solid defensively.

So could we.......and Stajan ain't it.

Stajan has zero PP points this year though he averages 2 PP minutes per game. That's unbelievably bad.

No one would take Stajan off our hands without giving us so similar salary in return. Feaster has said as much. For all trades.

Unless you are trading young players on suitable contracts (like the Hawks did last year with Buff, Ladd, Barker and Versteeg) you've got to take back salary in return.

Stajan currently has negative trade value, in that he preforms at a level less than his contract. You won't get prospects and draft picks for players like that.

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01-15-2011, 04:42 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by slappipappi View Post
So could we.......and Stajan ain't it.

Stajan has zero PP points this year though he averages 2 PP minutes per game. That's unbelievably bad.

No one would take Stajan off our hands without giving us so similar salary in return. Feaster has said as much. For all trades.

Unless you are trading young players on suitable contracts (like the Hawks did last year with Buff, Ladd, Barker and Versteeg) you've got to take back salary in return.

Stajan currently has negative trade value, in that he preforms at a level less than his contract. You won't get prospects and draft picks for players like that.
Meh, I think when people look back at Stajan's career, this season will be nothing more than a dip in an otherwise decent career. He's a lot better than we give him credit for, and Pro scouts, and GM's around the league undoubtedly realize that.

Personally, the only thing I think is hurting Stajan's value right now is the fact that he still isn't right from the shoulder injury he suffered this year. One of those injuries you play with, but that won't get better until the off-season when you can rest it, or even go under the knife if it comes to that.

IMO, the Flames and Stajan decided it won't get worse playing with it, and that they'd rather have 70-80% of Stajan than 0% of Stajan.

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01-15-2011, 05:00 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by BurnEmUp View Post
Meh, I think when people look back at Stajan's career, this season will be nothing more than a dip in an otherwise decent career. He's a lot better than we give him credit for, and Pro scouts, and GM's around the league undoubtedly realize that.

Personally, the only thing I think is hurting Stajan's value right now is the fact that he still isn't right from the shoulder injury he suffered this year. One of those injuries you play with, but that won't get better until the off-season when you can rest it, or even go under the knife if it comes to that.

IMO, the Flames and Stajan decided it won't get worse playing with it, and that they'd rather have 70-80% of Stajan than 0% of Stajan.
You may be right that injuries have affected his production, but he didn't do much for us last year.

Stajan is the psoter boy for how Sutter was incapable of managing a team in a cap world.

You take a decent 3rd line centre who'd get 25-30 points playing on the third line and worth $2M per season. You give him tons of ice time on the 1st line with your best wingers and lots of PP time to fatten up his points (or at least in Toronto) and he'll get you 55 points or so. So you call hima #1 centre so you have to pay him like a 55-60 point guy and you finish out of the playoffs.

Stanjan is not a bad player per se, he just isn't a #1 centre. And he won't give you 55 points unless he's getting premium ice time. So, he's overpayed anyway you cut it.

Tams with #1 centres scoring 50-55 points generally finish out of the playoffs. And if you give tham 3rd line time they'll rerawrd you with 25-30 points (at best) and are grossly overpaid.

Stajan's biggest problem is the lost opportunity cost of perhaps having someone else getting his premium ice time and producing quite a bit more. But that was on the Sutters.

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