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**REVISED- Blues - Oilers

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Old
01-15-2011, 06:23 PM
  #1
lakai17
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**REVISED- Blues - Oilers

To St.louis:

Dustin Penner
Edmonton's 2011 1st rounder

To Edmonton:

Erik Johnson


"Would the Blues trade one of their young defensemen?" They have three former first-round picks in Erik Johnson, Alex Pietrangelo and Cole, who are a valuable part of the franchise's future. If Armstrong were able to identify an available goal scorer, teams may want one of the young defensemen in return.

"There are certainly no untouchables on our team,"Armstrong said. "It's our job to talk to everybody and about everybody. We're not going to move a young player for a 'rental' player. But if there's an excellent forward out there and it costs you an excellent young defenseman, you have to look at it."

NEWS ARTICLE--> http://www.stltoday.com/sports/hocke...4b53fadc5.html

St.louis Blues are going through some injuries at the moment and I believe Penner would be able to contribute to that young franchise and help push them in the playoffs, more playoff time would be very valuable to that young organization. Penner does provide toughness when needed as well, the guy is farmer tough and that's one reason why I really wouldn't want him moved but that's why he would be a great addition to St.louis come playoff time.

The Blue's organization and hockey analysts seem to have Pietrangelo as their franchise defenceman, so that's why I picked Johnson, he has great size and is very hockey smart. Plays a nice poised game with tons of potential that would benefit Edmonton a lot.

The one guy I would like Edmonton to draft with that 1st round pick is Larsson but we're not guaranteed to draft him. Edmonton's forward prospects are not looking half bad either and how many more forward rookies do you want in the lineup? I think the next one would be Lander or Pitlick but I say we develop them properly and the other next rookie may also be on defence, Jeff Petry and I feel we don't need any more rookies on this team at the moment, Marincin's going to be a "beaut" when he's ready. I really like Landeskog and the odd other forward prospect in this years draft but we should really draft a defenceman and besides Larsson or Murphy, the other defence prospects haven't really sold me plus I prefer Johnson's size over Murphy's. I really don't think Edmonton will become a lotto team with or without Johnson, homer or not but I'm doing this proposal as a lot have Edmonton as a lotto team but then again there is still half the season left to me it's a toss up between Alex or Erik, too bad Erik didn't play more physical but that doesn't matter. St.louis have a great young organization going

If this trade proposal is a no go, tell me why Johnson is not worth Edmonton's 1st round pick and Penner, then I'd like to know what Ian Cole alone is worth in a trade with Edmonton??


Last edited by lakai17: 01-15-2011 at 06:34 PM.
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Old
01-15-2011, 06:28 PM
  #2
bleuetbio
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good proposal

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Old
01-15-2011, 06:29 PM
  #3
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Blues pass one that one. Pietrangelo may currently be having a better season then Johnson but it's to early for the team to choose one. I would much rather have a dominant Blueline with Pietrangelo and Johnson then a year and a half with Penner. While Johnson and Pietrangelo are both defenseman they are very different players. Currently Johnson is a much more physical presence on then Pietrangelo is. Pietrangelo plays a smart poke checking game currently instead of the more physical Johnson does. Johnson currently has a better slapshot from the point IMO also. Pietrangelo may in general be out playing Johnson it's still close with both having a lot more upside then they have shown. Both Johnson and Pietrangelo should be 50 point defenseman with a very good defensive game. Johnson being the more physical of the two. Those just aren't players you trade for an unknown and Penner.

This years draft really has no clear superstar players so the pick while nice you still wont get the caliber player you did in the last few drafts.


Last edited by HooliganX2: 01-15-2011 at 06:39 PM.
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Old
01-15-2011, 06:29 PM
  #4
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Tough pill to swallow, but as an Oiler fan I'd do it.

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Old
01-15-2011, 06:40 PM
  #5
lakai17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HooliganX2 View Post
Blues pass one that one. Pietrangelo may currently be having a better season then Johnson but it's to early for the team to choose one. I would much rather have a dominant Blue lines with Pietrangelo and Johnson then a year and a half with Penner. This years draft really has no clear superstar players so the pick while nice you still wont get the caliber player you did in the last few drafts.
How many more games is Halak going to win for you guys, you just can't rely on him for the playoffs, what happens if he gets injured? I know some of your young forwards have playoff experience already but more playoff experience would really benefit St.louis's young organization and I bet can surprise when healthy.

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Old
01-15-2011, 06:42 PM
  #6
HooliganX2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lakai17 View Post
How many more games is Halak going to win for you guys, you just can't rely on him for the playoffs, what happens if he gets injured? I know some of your young forwards have playoff experience already but more playoff experience would really benefit St.louis's young organization and I bet can surprise when healthy.
The Blues have Perron Oshie and McDonald injured currently all players that will have a bigger impact when if they return then Penner would. Also You haven't seem many Blues games lately Halak hasn't been winning us very many games this season. Halak has been a pretty average goalie.

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01-15-2011, 06:43 PM
  #7
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I am in the minority here--but for some reason Johnson reminds me of a bigger version of Ed Jovonoski.

if we got to reboot the 2006 draft--would Johnson go first overall? would he go top 5?

Right now the oilers 2011 pick is a top 3 pick--I wouldn't do penner and the 3rd over all pick for Johnson

as I said--I am in the minority here--but I don't think Johnson will be as good as some people think he will be long term

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Old
01-15-2011, 06:43 PM
  #8
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As an Oiler fan, I'd rather keep Penner and our own 1st. Lets draft our own players and keep Penner who is a key piece on our team.

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01-15-2011, 06:44 PM
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No thanks.

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Old
01-15-2011, 06:45 PM
  #10
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EJ and Pietrangelo would only be moved if a young Franchise sniper were coming back our way.
Those 2 are the focal point of our rebuilding effort and you would have to replace one of them with an offensive equivilent to get Army to even think about it. We are not in a position to be making a talent downgrade, even if it does bring in an additional piece.

Penner is an inconsistent PF with a year and a half left before hitting UFA status who isn't having an overly great year. He is NOWHERE CLOSE to enough to grab EJ or Pie and even mentioning those two makes the trade a non-starter.


Cole might be available, and for a guy like Penner probably would be, but even then it would take a good player coming back to get him. On any other team he would project as a first pairing D man and those always have a ton of trade value. Straight up, I don't see any forward on Edmonton's roster that would entice me to move Cole. Cole is very good as the primary piece of a trade for Penner or a forward above him on your depth chart, but in a straight up deal I just don't see a fit.

The most realistic option between EDM and STL is Cole and a second piece for Penner. The question is what that second piece should be. IMO a 2nd round pick would make the most sense, but if you prefer one of our secondary prospects(anybody below Cole on our top 20 list) instead it would be your choice.

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Old
01-15-2011, 06:46 PM
  #11
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Penner
for
Cole + Gardiner + 1st

Fair or no?

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Old
01-15-2011, 06:49 PM
  #12
kimzey59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oilbleeder View Post
Penner
for
Cole + Gardiner + 1st

Fair or no?
A little on the expensive side from the Blues POV.

Drop Gardiner or turn the 1st into a 2nd and we might have something that's doable.

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Old
01-15-2011, 06:54 PM
  #13
lakai17
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Just for fun, what would it take from Edmonton to aquire T.J Oshie?

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Old
01-15-2011, 06:55 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kimzey59 View Post
A little on the expensive side from the Blues POV.

Drop Gardiner or turn the 1st into a 2nd and we might have something that's doable.
I would definitely trade Penner for Cole and St.louis's first rounder. How do you think Cole would fit in Edmonton's lineup?

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Old
01-15-2011, 07:00 PM
  #15
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Penner's value to Edmonton is way higher than it will ever be to St. Louis, this just doesn't need to keep being pushed.

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01-15-2011, 07:02 PM
  #16
lakai17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteenMachine View Post
Penner's value to Edmonton is way higher than it will ever be to St. Louis, this just doesn't need to keep being pushed.
St.louis is just that good or what? Penner would be a valuable asset on any young team unless the team is healthy and stacked on left wings.

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Old
01-15-2011, 07:06 PM
  #17
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The Oilers should trade for Roman Polak and pair him with Smid... be a sweet shutdown pair

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01-15-2011, 07:12 PM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lakai17 View Post
St.louis is just that good or what? Penner would be a valuable asset on any young team unless the team is healthy and stacked on left wings.
It's called opportunity cost, his value minus that of the trade doesn't = Cup contender by any stretch. Removing an element like EJ or Pietro would be foolish given that we could see up to 3 of the Blues current top 6 forwards return to the line up by spring.

We'd be outbid by a team that can sell the future at the deadline, he'd be adding salary to a budget when our team needs aren't concrete enough to say he's the best use of that budget come the offseason.

Waiting another year to buy and not giving up assets doesn't hurt this team. It gives guys like Tarasenko a shot to make the team and our top 6 to heal up and solidify what kind of complimentary or top end player we need to buy for a Cup run when this team looks like a contender and not a playoff seed.

It also lets high end assets develop more and increase their value, if we move our 1st round pick it'd probably be at the draft when it has a precise value to certain teams.

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01-15-2011, 07:12 PM
  #19
lakai17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HooliganX2 View Post
The Blues have Perron Oshie and McDonald injured currently all players that will have a bigger impact when if they return then Penner would. Also You haven't seem many Blues games lately Halak hasn't been winning us very many games this season. Halak has been a pretty average goalie.
Yeah, Halak only has 4 shutouts with a 2.49 goals against average playing 34 games for the Blues this season, probably more games played if he wasn't injured and both Blues and Oilers organization's know how reliable Ty Conklin is

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01-15-2011, 07:22 PM
  #20
lakai17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteenMachine View Post
It's called opportunity cost, his value minus that of the trade doesn't = Cup contender by any stretch. Removing an element like EJ or Pietro would be foolish given that we could see up to 3 of the Blues current top 6 forwards return to the line up by spring.

We'd be outbid by a team that can sell the future at the deadline, he'd be adding salary to a budget when our team needs aren't concrete enough to say he's the best use of that budget come the offseason.

Waiting another year to buy and not giving up assets doesn't hurt this team. It gives guys like Tarasenko a shot to make the team and our top 6 to heal up and solidify what kind of complimentary or top end player we need to buy for a Cup run when this team looks like a contender and not a playoff seed.

It also lets high end assets develop more and increase their value, if we move our 1st round pick it'd probably be at the draft when it has a precise value to certain teams.
Yeah I understand your point of view but I believe more playoff experiece would benefit the young Blue's organization. Penner would be able to contribute when your team needs points right now with those injuries you guys are dealing with at the moment. I like that Runblad-Tarasenko trade, what would it take from edmonton to aquire Cole or Polak, or both of them?

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Old
01-15-2011, 07:25 PM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lakai17 View Post
To St.louis:

Dustin Penner
Edmonton's 2011 1st rounder

To Edmonton:

Erik Johnson

"Would the Blues trade one of their young defensemen?" St.louis Blues are going through some injuries at the moment and I believe Penner would be able to contribute to that young franchise and help push them in the playoffs, more playoff time would be very valuable to that young organization. Penner does provide toughness when needed as well, the guy is farmer tough and that's one reason why I really wouldn't want him moved but that's why he would be a great addition to St.louis come playoff time.
If this trade proposal is a no go, tell me why Johnson is not worth Edmonton's 1st round pick and Penner, then I'd like to know what Ian Cole alone is worth in a trade with Edmonton??
I think the Blues would trade Cole for the right price. Penner for the right price sure. However with an internal budget I doubt something like this happens unless Edmonton takes some sort of salary back.

Why isn't Penner and a 1st enough, easy. We are no longer in the mode of needing draft picks. We have a deep system and our draft picks are plenty. We are no longer in the rebuilding mantra. Oshie is traveling with the team and will be back soon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jumptheshark View Post
I am in the minority here--but for some reason Johnson reminds me of a bigger version of Ed Jovonoski.

as I said--I am in the minority here--but I don't think Johnson will be as good as some people think he will be long term
I think EJ is going to take the devolpement route of Pronger. It's going take some time. Yea he might underachive as far as where we think we want him to be. But he is young and defensemen take more time. EJ is figuring things out however slower than we would like. However when he does figure it all out watch out.

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Old
01-15-2011, 07:26 PM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteenMachine View Post
It's called opportunity cost, his value minus that of the trade doesn't = Cup contender by any stretch. Removing an element like EJ or Pietro would be foolish given that we could see up to 3 of the Blues current top 6 forwards return to the line up by spring.

We'd be outbid by a team that can sell the future at the deadline, he'd be adding salary to a budget when our team needs aren't concrete enough to say he's the best use of that budget come the offseason.

Waiting another year to buy and not giving up assets doesn't hurt this team. It gives guys like Tarasenko a shot to make the team and our top 6 to heal up and solidify what kind of complimentary or top end player we need to buy for a Cup run when this team looks like a contender and not a playoff seed.

It also lets high end assets develop more and increase their value, if we move our 1st round pick it'd probably be at the draft when it has a precise value to certain teams.

This post is perfect. The Blues simply aren't going to entertain a trade like this.

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Old
01-15-2011, 07:30 PM
  #23
lakai17
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Brule + 2nd rounder for Cole then.

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Old
01-15-2011, 07:32 PM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lakai17 View Post
How many more games is Halak going to win for you guys, you just can't rely on him for the playoffs, what happens if he gets injured? I know some of your young forwards have playoff experience already but more playoff experience would really benefit St.louis's young organization and I bet can surprise when healthy.
At this point in time Halak is not going to steal/win us a lot of games. Thus, it is pertinent to keep the defensive core we have waited so long to develop.

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01-15-2011, 07:33 PM
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Brule + 2nd rounder for Cole then.
Absolutely not.

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