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Wolski deal a gamble/potential Grachev fallout

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Old
01-16-2011, 10:33 AM
  #1
RangerBoy
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Wolski deal a gamble/potential Grachev fallout

Larry Brooks paints Michal Rozsival as an insecure individual

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He either was upset because his partner and friend Marek Malik was being mistreated, or he couldn't handle Jaromir Jagr yelling at him at the bench, or he missed Malik, or he missed Jagr, or he couldn't handle playing on the last year of his contract, or he couldn't deal with the responsibilities of being on a multi-year deal worth $5 million per.
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The acquisition of Wolski, who did record 65 points last year with the Avalanche and Coyotes and thus was able to get the two-year, $7.6 million contract from a Phoenix franchise on life support, surely pushes Evgeny Grachev further down the organizational depth chart and makes it even likely the 20-year-old winger will be dangled in trade talks before the Feb. 28 deadline.

Sather has taken a bit of a bit of a gamble here, though the potential reward would seem to exceed the risk. If Wolski is the player the GM thinks he is, the Rangers will be laughing. If not, there will be issues, just like there were issues with him in Colorado and Phoenix.
http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/range...1aJZfrz65CWouN

Was Grachev penciled in as a 2nd line player next season? The Rangers have Dubinsky and Wolski on the LW. The Rangers still have two spots open on LW. Avery is signed for next season. His spot isn't guaranteed. Fedotenko is a group III. Brooks wrote earlier this season about Sather not giving up young assets for a rental. I heard him tell Dave Maloney that last month. The Rangers can make a rental trade for a D by giving up a 2nd round pick. They can't trade for signed player past this season without shedding money in the deal. Who are they trading Grachev for? Grachev is in the first season of his 3 year ELC. What's the rush? He is not going to require waivers next season so lets trade him instead of potentially losing him on waivers.

Wolski got that contract because he was arbitration eligible which is also part of why Colorado traded him. They didn't want to pay Wolski close to $4M per. I remember Brooks writing Avery was worth $4M per and the Rangers needed to meet his demands while Wolski is a gamble at $3.8M cap.

If the Rangers bought out Avery,Dallas would be on the hook for 50% of the buyout.

$4M salary. Buyout cap hit is $1,333,333 per for 2 years. Rangers would be on the hook for $666,666 per for the next 2 years.

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01-16-2011, 10:38 AM
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really not ready to shut the door on Grachev....been watching the Whale lately and he really has his moments....could turn out to be AA in terms of skill, capability and use to this team. I do hope Wolski works out and, I really rather NEVER see Frolov in Rangers blue ever again.

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01-16-2011, 10:40 AM
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Good writeup by Brooksie.

Although I disagree with buying Avery out. If anyone should be bought out this offseason, it's Captain Quaalude.

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01-16-2011, 10:41 AM
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With our projected depth next year its probably best to keep Avery around, even in a 4th line role.

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01-16-2011, 11:06 AM
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Grachev has been playing mostly C in the AHL this season.

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01-16-2011, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Prusted View Post
Grachev has been playing mostly C in the AHL this season.
and he is'nt doing very well and he is still young. I see nothing wrong with keeping him the AHL till he proves he can dominate that league first

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01-16-2011, 11:11 AM
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Grachev's in the second year of his ELC. High expectations after one season in Brampton and he's still not producing much--6 goals, 6 assists, 12 points in 37 games. He might finish with lower numbers than last year which doesn't mean he won't be a top 6 NHL forward one day but I'm beginning to wonder. Could be Marcel Hossa redux. If the Rangers need a player and he's the price we pay, well--I'd at least think about it. To my mind he is movable.

As for Avery I'm a fan but he's not the same player he was a few years ago. Torts may be part of the reason but I also think his body (which is smallish) with the kind of style he plays has taken a hammering over the years. I'm not sure that hasn't something to do with it either--beware Ryan Callahan.

On Rozsival--he's mostly steady in his own end and makes intelligent outlet passes. His offense has been going south since Jagr left and he's not very physical and he wasn't worth $5 mil when we signed him and he's worth less than that now. Wolski seems a very good return--especially if we can get his game going. The stakes in this roll of the dice could make this a big win for us. Worse case scenario is Zherdev all over again. I think McDonagh anyway has moved right in and shown he's ready.

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01-16-2011, 11:39 AM
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Trading Grachev now would be a mistake.

•His value is low.

•He's still very young.

•And he still has the potential to become what we all wanted him to become.


Regarding Wolski, he isn't a liability contractually. His contract only runs through next season. If he doesn't show up, Sather can bury him in Hartford or try to deal him.

Brooks also fails to mention that Kreider will be on this team next year.

I take any speculation from Brooks with a grain of salt. His speculation and opinions are more often off base then on.

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01-16-2011, 12:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post

If the Rangers bought out Avery,Dallas would be on the hook for 50% of the buyout.

$4M salary. Buyout cap hit is $1,333,333 per for 2 years. Rangers would be on the hook for $666,666 per for the next 2 years.
Thats good to know because capgeek didn't list what it would look like if the rangers bought him out, and at that price that would definitely seem possible.

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01-16-2011, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by ke11y96 View Post
Thats good to know because capgeek didn't list what it would look like if the rangers bought him out, and at that price that would definitely seem possible.
You can use the buyout calculator and then just custom add that cap hit to the roster.

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01-16-2011, 12:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Trading Grachev now would be a mistake.

•His value is low.

•He's still very young.

•And he still has the potential to become what we all wanted him to become.


Regarding Wolski, he isn't a liability contractually. His contract only runs through next season. If he doesn't show up, Sather can bury him in Hartford or try to deal him.

Brooks also fails to mention that Kreider will be on this team next year.

I take any speculation from Brooks with a grain of salt. His speculation and opinions are more often off base then on.
There is a chance that moving Grachev now 'could' be a mistake dependent on the return and dependent on how he turns out in the long run. The Rangers I would think are going to move someone for a vet d-man before the deadline because the Rangers see themselves going to the playoffs and they are young on the back end and playoff bound teams pick up vet d-men at the deadline especially when they lack them. They're going to have to give up something for that and Grachev is an intriguing albeit underachieving prospect/project. It would be better to use assets not currently on the team and not named Kreider.

If we do move him we might regret it later--or not. A comparible may be Sanguinetti who never really developed for us the way we wanted.

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01-16-2011, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
Grachev's in the second year of his ELC. High expectations after one season in Brampton and he's still not producing much--6 goals, 6 assists, 12 points in 37 games. He might finish with lower numbers than last year which doesn't mean he won't be a top 6 NHL forward one day but I'm beginning to wonder. Could be Marcel Hossa redux. If the Rangers need a player and he's the price we pay, well--I'd at least think about it. To my mind he is movable.

As for Avery I'm a fan but he's not the same player he was a few years ago. Torts may be part of the reason but I also think his body (which is smallish) with the kind of style he plays has taken a hammering over the years. I'm not sure that hasn't something to do with it either--beware Ryan Callahan.

On Rozsival--he's mostly steady in his own end and makes intelligent outlet passes. His offense has been going south since Jagr left and he's not very physical and he wasn't worth $5 mil when we signed him and he's worth less than that now. Wolski seems a very good return--especially if we can get his game going. The stakes in this roll of the dice could make this a big win for us. Worse case scenario is Zherdev all over again. I think McDonagh anyway has moved right in and shown he's ready.
i thought the 1st year of his ELC didnt count because he was under 20 playing in the AHL.

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01-16-2011, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Wraparounds View Post
You can use the buyout calculator and then just custom add that cap hit to the roster.
oh alright thanks just checked it out thats a nice lil feature

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01-16-2011, 12:32 PM
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No GM in their right mind would not pull the trigger on that Wolski deal because of a guy who was doing okay in the AHL and hasn't made the team out of camp two years in a row. I hope Grachev turns out to be a great player and I think its definitely possible but at this point he's done very little to warrant him MAYBE being on the team next year stopping this trade from going through.

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01-16-2011, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by ecemleafs View Post
i thought the 1st year of his ELC didnt count because he was under 20 playing in the AHL.
I'm not sure. I don't think it counted for Anisimov but Artie never played in juniors either. He came over from Russia right to the AHL. Grachev has that season in Brampton.

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01-16-2011, 12:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wraparounds View Post
You can use the buyout calculator and then just custom add that cap hit to the roster.
Avery is not listed in the Buyout Calculator

http://www.capgeek.com/buyout_calculator.php

I asked Bill Daly nearly three years about Avery when the Rangers claimed him off re-entry. What happens if Avery loses his mind and the Rangers wanted to buy him out? The Rangers and Stars would share the buyout 50%/50%.

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01-16-2011, 12:36 PM
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I think what Brooks meant was that Grachev could be moved for some quality asset. Sather isn't going to just give him away (a la Sanguinetti). I am sure Grachev still has value around the league, given how slow Russian players and power forwards are known to develop. Grachev is both.

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01-16-2011, 12:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
Grachev's in the second year of his ELC. High expectations after one season in Brampton and he's still not producing much--6 goals, 6 assists, 12 points in 37 games. He might finish with lower numbers than last year which doesn't mean he won't be a top 6 NHL forward one day but I'm beginning to wonder. Could be Marcel Hossa redux. If the Rangers need a player and he's the price we pay, well--I'd at least think about it. To my mind he is movable.

As for Avery I'm a fan but he's not the same player he was a few years ago. Torts may be part of the reason but I also think his body (which is smallish) with the kind of style he plays has taken a hammering over the years. I'm not sure that hasn't something to do with it either--beware Ryan Callahan.

On Rozsival--he's mostly steady in his own end and makes intelligent outlet passes. His offense has been going south since Jagr left and he's not very physical and he wasn't worth $5 mil when we signed him and he's worth less than that now. Wolski seems a very good return--especially if we can get his game going. The stakes in this roll of the dice could make this a big win for us. Worse case scenario is Zherdev all over again. I think McDonagh anyway has moved right in and shown he's ready.
Grachev's ELC slid one year because he didn't play 10 NHL games in the first season of his ELC as a 19 year old.

Quote:
If a player aged 18 or 19 signs an entry-level contract with a club (with his age calculated on Sept. 15 of the year he signed the contract) but does not play in at least 10 NHL games, the contract will "slide" or be extended one year. The extension does not apply if the player turns 20 between Sept. 16 and Dec. 31 in the year he signed the contract.

Depending on the contract's structure, the player's cap hit can be affected either by an increase or a decrease. Players who sign at age 18 can have their contract extended (or "slide") two seasons.
http://www.capgeek.com/FAQ.php

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01-16-2011, 12:47 PM
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The Rangers moved Sanguineti because he will require waivers starting next season(11-12). The Rangers had many young D and weren't sure about Sanguinetti's future PLUS his waiver status,so they traded him for a 2nd rounder in 11(Caps picl/Joe Corvo trade)and 6th in 10(Jesper Fasth).

That is not the case with Grachev.

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01-16-2011, 12:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Trading Grachev now would be a mistake.

•His value is low.

•He's still very young.

•And he still has the potential to become what we all wanted him to become.


Regarding Wolski, he isn't a liability contractually. His contract only runs through next season. If he doesn't show up, Sather can bury him in Hartford or try to deal him.

Brooks also fails to mention that Kreider will be on this team next year.

I take any speculation from Brooks with a grain of salt. His speculation and opinions are more often off base then on.
Kreider's entry level max would $900,000. Say he gets $400,000 in bonuses. His cap hit is $1.3M. Without the bonus cushion,it's $1.3M and not $900k and we will worry about if he makes the bonuses later. The lack of a bonus cushion next season will hurt many teams and players.

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01-16-2011, 01:01 PM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xxxZENxxx View Post
I think what Brooks meant was that Grachev could be moved for some quality asset. Sather isn't going to just give him away (a la Sanguinetti). I am sure Grachev still has value around the league, given how slow Russian players and power forwards are known to develop. Grachev is both.
At this point, getting Jesper Fasth in return for Sagg's isn't that bad of a return. Yeah Bobby's name had the luxry of having the term "1st rd pick" attached to it but the kid had no heart and hundereds of other player are 1st rd picks that arn't even sniffing a pay check anymore.

Fasth has been a VERY interesting prospect & considering how far down the AHL depth chart Sagg's is for Carolina, I'd bet they wish they had that pick back and Fasth in return.

As far as the Wolski/Grachev debate, I kind of wondered the same thing after the news broke. This was the first thing that popped into my head when I read the title theday we made th trade.

I look at it this way though. If Wolski works out then that was one heck of a trade and it puts less pressure on the orginization to rush Grachev before he's ready. If he is to be a 'power forward' for us then that style of game will take time to develop. In the mean time, taking on Wolski's contract free'd up a few bucks and at worst we ride it out for the same length as the Rozy deal, and a little less painfull, he is a UFA after next season so that makes him a trade deadline rental next season, which given his modus opperendum, he needs a season and a half in blue for us to get a read on what he does for us.

IMO, this is actually a good thing for Grachev unless Wolski reaches his potential, then it screws Evgeny up on a personal level but either way NYR doesnt really lose unless both player crap out.

Time will tell.


Last edited by x BEUKEBOOM x: 01-16-2011 at 01:09 PM.
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Old
01-16-2011, 01:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueCollarBlueBlood View Post
At this point, getting Jesper Fasth in return for Sagg's isn't that bad of a return. Yeah Bobby's name had the luxry of having the term "1st rd pick" attached to it but the kid had no heart and hundereds of other player are 1st rd picks that arn't even sniffing a pay check anymore.

Fasth has been a VERY interesting prospect & considering how far down the AHL depth chart Sagg's is for Carolina, I'd bet they wish they had that pick back and Fasth in return.

As far as the Wolski/Grachev debate, I kind of wondered the same thing after the news broke. This was the first thing that popped into my head when I read the title theday we made th trade.

I look at it this way though. If Wolski works out then that was one heck of a trade and it puts less pressure on the orginization to rush Grachev before he's ready. If he is to be a 'power forward' for us then that style of game will take time to develop. In the mean time, taking on Wolski's contract free'd up a few bucks and at worst we ride it out for the same length as the Rozy deal, and a little less painfull, he is a UFA after next season so that makes him a trade deadline rental next season, which given his modus opperendum, he needs a season and a half in blue for us to get a read on what he does for us.

IMO, this is actually a good thing for Grachev unless Wolski reaches his potential, then it screws Evgeny up on a personal level but either way NYR doesnt really lose unless both player crap out.

Time will tell.
Good post.

-1 for incorrect usage of modus operandi.

Operandi is the adjective. Singular form is modus operandi, plural is modi operandi. Operandi is the plural of operando, which is the gerund form of the verb operare, "to operate." /latin grammar lesson.

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01-16-2011, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
The Rangers can make a rental trade for a D by giving up a 2nd round pick.
Our second round picks have been:

2010: Chris Thomas
2009: Ethan Werek
2008: Derek Stepan
2007: Antoine Lafleur
2006: Artem Anisimov
2005: Michael Sauer

Other than Lafleur, who else would you give up for a rental defenseman?

Come on people, let's not waste picks on players who will most likely make no difference for us, and even if they will it will at most be to win an extra game, making no difference in winning or losing the Cup.

Keep the pick and go for high-risk, high-return guys like Thomas and Stepan.

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01-16-2011, 01:27 PM
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I have to say that overall I am happy with Sathers managing of the assets, post lockout

The only real F up right now is Drurys NMC. He left himself an out in the other risky ufa signings, which was pretty smart.

The prospects he has kept - Cally Dubi Artem Staal Girardi etc have developed very nice.

Most of the guys they eventually let go - Prucha, Dawes etc seem to struggle regardless.

The one guy who a wonder about is Bad Hossa, who seems to be pretty good in the KHL where I assume he plays with the teams better players.

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01-16-2011, 01:27 PM
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Grachev's value might be at an all time low but it does make sense if the right deal comes along at the deadline. The Rangers do have a solid team and as long as they are still in the thick of things and believe they have a shot to win the cup and trading Grachev will get them closer to that goal then you have to do it.

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