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Stubbs: ''I won't be the same Andrei Markov...I'll be better''

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Old
01-15-2011, 02:24 PM
  #101
angry pirate
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Originally Posted by Edgy View Post
Actually history can be on my side as well, Markov's recovery history indicates that he is resilient and capable of bouncing back given sufficient time to heal. Last time around he wasn't given that and was rushed back because our D was getting quite brutal.

Also taking the stats from the past 2 seasons only? typical what have you done for me mentality. How about the 4 seasons between the lockout and the injury where he played 304 games of 328 or 92%.

Following your logic then we shouldn't offer Gorges or any other player for that matter more than a 1 year deal just in case they get an injury that requires lengthy recovery.

Top 10 d-men don't come cheap nor are they easy to find, more so those that are willing to play in Montreal. You'll end up having to overpay someone lesser than Markov to play in his position and carry his workload, whether that person will be able to or not you can't know just yet. I'd rather keep Markov and get a good second pairing guy to help take some of the pressure off him.
Gorges isn't going to ask for more than 5M a year so I don't think we can really compare him to Markov. Also while Gorges is a very capable player, He's not nearly as difficult to replace as Markov. Losing Gorges to injury doesn't have the same effect on the team as losing Markov does. So your making assumptions about my logic that aren't valid.

That's great that he played 92% of the time before his injury troubles. Fact remains that he's only played 33% since. Freak injuries or not, he seems to be piling them up over the last 2 seasons. And while I'm always amazed at how quickly he's been able to recover from injuries in the past, it's a fact of life that he's getting older everyday. With age always comes natural slowdown of the body. While I'm not calling Markov old, it's definitely going to be more difficult for him to recover from these injuries than it would have been had he been in his 20's. Same goes to the risk of Re-Injury. His increasing age and number of injuries over the past 2 seasons elevate that risk.

So Like I've said, I'm still not sure it's worth the risk for the amount of money that I think he's likely going to command.

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01-15-2011, 02:27 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Jedrik View Post
If he were 36 I might be more worried about how he looked this season, but any player's going to take a while to look alright after missing masses of time.
You could be right. It still remains a huge concern though.

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01-15-2011, 03:55 PM
  #103
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I dont know how you can evaluate whether markov lost a step.

I thought Markov was getting better each game this season. When you miss training camp and haven't had game action for over a half year, of course you are gonna look slow and rusty.

In truth, none of us have an idea of how he will respond, but we cannot underestimate the importance of training camp and the preseason for a player's success especially coming out of the gate. There are countless examples of players who struggled to find their game when missing camp.

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Old
01-15-2011, 05:52 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by angry pirate View Post
Gorges isn't going to ask for more than 5M a year so I don't think we can really compare him to Markov. Also while Gorges is a very capable player, He's not nearly as difficult to replace as Markov. Losing Gorges to injury doesn't have the same effect on the team as losing Markov does. So your making assumptions about my logic that aren't valid.

That's great that he played 92% of the time before his injury troubles. Fact remains that he's only played 33% since. Freak injuries or not, he seems to be piling them up over the last 2 seasons. And while I'm always amazed at how quickly he's been able to recover from injuries in the past, it's a fact of life that he's getting older everyday. With age always comes natural slowdown of the body. While I'm not calling Markov old, it's definitely going to be more difficult for him to recover from these injuries than it would have been had he been in his 20's. Same goes to the risk of Re-Injury. His increasing age and number of injuries over the past 2 seasons elevate that risk.

So Like I've said, I'm still not sure it's worth the risk for the amount of money that I think he's likely going to command.
There's no one on the UFA list (for next summer) that is close to Markov caliber... if you dont sign him you end up having no one to replace him...

Hammer will be 37 when next season starts, you really want to depend on him as our #1 guy ? that is, IF he wants to stay with us...

(picture this for next season : first pair D -> Spacek and Hamrlik )


sign someone younger to replace Hmmer ? yeah ok... but that still doesnt give us a D with Markov abilities... meaning our D corp is the same of not worst than it is now...

trade to get someone of Markov caliber ? OK sure, but we cant trade D, outside Spacek and our rookies none are under contract for next season... and seeing how great our offense is, are you really sure you'd like to downgrade our forward corp ?

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01-15-2011, 06:06 PM
  #105
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Markov stays. Over the past 5 years I've seen numerous reported quotes from players worshipping Markov's abilities especially his passing and skating which are second to none. From memory I can recall Ovechkin, Plekanec, and Subban being quoted with remarkable things to say about Markov's elite talent. Markov makes our team better offensively and transitionally as well as makes our PP unit one of the best in the league. Habs can focus their gameplan and breakouts based on Markov being in or out of our lineup. That's how good he is.

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01-15-2011, 06:40 PM
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by angry pirate View Post
Gorges isn't going to ask for more than 5M a year so I don't think we can really compare him to Markov. Also while Gorges is a very capable player, He's not nearly as difficult to replace as Markov. Losing Gorges to injury doesn't have the same effect on the team as losing Markov does. So your making assumptions about my logic that aren't valid.

That's great that he played 92% of the time before his injury troubles. Fact remains that he's only played 33% since. Freak injuries or not, he seems to be piling them up over the last 2 seasons. And while I'm always amazed at how quickly he's been able to recover from injuries in the past, it's a fact of life that he's getting older everyday. With age always comes natural slowdown of the body. While I'm not calling Markov old, it's definitely going to be more difficult for him to recover from these injuries than it would have been had he been in his 20's. Same goes to the risk of Re-Injury. His increasing age and number of injuries over the past 2 seasons elevate that risk.

So Like I've said, I'm still not sure it's worth the risk for the amount of money that I think he's likely going to command.
Injuries are part of the game, there is no guarantee that he wont be injured again just as much as there isn't a guarantee any other player wont get injured. You roll the dice and hope they wont sustain a long term or career ending injury.

I understand your concern about the team's ability to be competitive without him in the lineup, but looking at the upcoming UFA period who do you see as a possible replacement for him? and how much would we have to overpay them to come play in Montreal?

Personally I would rather keep Markov and improve the team in other positions.

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01-16-2011, 09:55 AM
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
There's no one on the UFA list (for next summer) that is close to Markov caliber... if you dont sign him you end up having no one to replace him...

Hammer will be 37 when next season starts, you really want to depend on him as our #1 guy ? that is, IF he wants to stay with us...

(picture this for next season : first pair D -> Spacek and Hamrlik )
While there may not be players as good as a 100% Markov available this year there certainly are players who are at least in the same neighborhood.

Quote:
sign someone younger to replace Hmmer ? yeah ok... but that still doesnt give us a D with Markov abilities... meaning our D corp is the same of not worst than it is now...
Taking Markov out of the equation, there is definitely UFA's available that would improve our D over what we are playing with now.


Quote:
trade to get someone of Markov caliber ? OK sure, but we cant trade D, outside Spacek and our rookies none are under contract for next season... and seeing how great our offense is, are you really sure you'd like to downgrade our forward corp ?
I've never been a proponent of trading for elite players except at the deadline. especially in a cap era where you need to have quality players on Entry Level Contracts to be successful.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Edgy View Post
Injuries are part of the game, there is no guarantee that he wont be injured again just as much as there isn't a guarantee any other player wont get injured. You roll the dice and hope they wont sustain a long term or career ending injury.

I understand your concern about the team's ability to be competitive without him in the lineup, but looking at the upcoming UFA period who do you see as a possible replacement for him? and how much would we have to overpay them to come play in Montreal?

Personally I would rather keep Markov and improve the team in other positions.
I would love for us to go after Ehrhoff. Only 28 years old, from memory I think he's only ever had 1 minus season. That said I think Vancouver re-signs him considering they have about 11 Million coming off the books next season.

To be perfectly honest I don't know what to do. I flip flop on this issue a lot. I really think that we are in a pretty bad situation. In an ideal world Subban is playing top pairing and succeeding on the top pairing by Christmas next year. If he's able to do that our need for a Markovian type player is at least diminished. Resign Wisniewski, and court Bieksa.

With a top 4 of Gorges, Wisniewski, Subban, Bieksa we're at least better than Hammer, Wisniewski, Subban, Gill. It's at least a competent top 4 that doesn't put us into Cap Hell and don't forget that Subban and Price will need to be resigned after next season also.


Last edited by angry pirate: 01-16-2011 at 10:10 AM.
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Old
01-16-2011, 12:04 PM
  #108
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01-16-2011, 12:13 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Whereabouts Unknown View Post
LOL @ Markov having more finish than our forwards.

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01-16-2011, 12:16 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by JayBee View Post
LOL @ Markov having more finish than our forwards.
He did used to be a forward...before being made a Dman....

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01-16-2011, 12:19 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by BLONG7 View Post
He did used to be a forward...before being made a Dman....
I know...we should play him on the 1st line.

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01-16-2011, 12:22 PM
  #112
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Re-sign him

/thread

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Old
01-16-2011, 12:37 PM
  #113
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I know...we should play him on the 1st line.
You could be on to something......

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Old
01-16-2011, 01:09 PM
  #114
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Why can't we simply give him a retirement contract with a long lenght and a low cap-hit. He's not 35 yet and if he were to retire because of injuries, his caphit wouldn't remain on the cap payroll.

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01-16-2011, 01:17 PM
  #115
angry pirate
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Originally Posted by VO Ouragan16 View Post
Why can't we simply give him a retirement contract with a long lenght and a low cap-hit. He's not 35 yet and if he were to retire because of injuries, his caphit wouldn't remain on the cap payroll.
I don't like the idea of being held hostage should his play deteriorate yet he not wish to retire. Also the league has really been hard on retirement contracts lately.

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