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The Official Ex-Habs Thread Part II(All Former Habs Players Discussed Here!)

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Old
01-14-2011, 08:57 AM
  #226
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Originally Posted by habsjunkie2 View Post
I remember when people were sayin Tommy Pyatt was an upgrade over Chris Higgins. He just can't play 5vs5
Higgins reminds me of a darche. Higgins might be more gifted, but they play a similar game.

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01-14-2011, 08:58 AM
  #227
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A Kost - Plekanec - Cammy
Latendresse - Ribeiro - Gionta
Pacioretty - Grabovski - S. Kostitsyn

No?

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01-14-2011, 09:05 AM
  #228
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A Kost - Plekanec - Cammy
Latendresse - Ribeiro - Gionta
Pacioretty - Grabovski - S. Kostitsyn

No?
You can't have cammy and gionta in the lineup without Gomez. The money had nothing to do with why they signed here they signed here because of Gomez

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01-14-2011, 09:08 AM
  #229
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Originally Posted by habsjunkie2 View Post
You can't have cammy and gionta in the lineup without Gomez. The money had nothing to do with why they signed here they signed here because of Gomez
They wanted to play with a premiere second line 50 point center. Of course, how could I forget.

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Old
01-14-2011, 09:17 AM
  #230
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Sometimes it's the players fault too, maybe he put more of an effort in once he got the change of scenery who knows.
Its not "maybe".
Being traded is like a wake-up call for young players, thats why they're usually playing well during the next months.

Maybe we should remember that Pouliot was in the same situation with Minnesota.
Carolina traded a third and a fourth pick before they had finished their ELC.
You could add players like Mueller, Brule, Coburn, Upshall, Ballard, Whitney etc...It happens almost everywhere.

And more important, lets wait before saying that trading X or Y was wrong.
Management may have given up too early on the player, but you are ok with the idea of saying that it was a mistake to trade Sergei or O'Byrne after less than four months ?

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01-14-2011, 09:26 AM
  #231
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Yet there are still no names on either list I'd want on the Habs.
With an ageing defence, it would be nice to have a good D prospect like McDonagh still around. But I don’t know if he is someone we will regret losing though.

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01-14-2011, 09:28 AM
  #232
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Giving up on young players only to see them flourish with an other team IMMEDIATLY is becoming a seriously disturbing trend. Latendresse, SKost, Grabo, Chipchura, Obyrne, D'agostini is a lot of talent to give up for basically nothing. Will Lapierre be the next one to turn around his career with another team?
Well let's see how badly we've done.

Grabo was from a different management & coaching staff but we'll throw him in the mix.

Grabo --> 2nd & Patyrn
Lats --> Pouliot
Sergei --> Nothing really - Boyd was signed as a free agent
Chip --> I forget, what did we get, a 3rd
O'Byrne --> Bournival
D'ago --> Palushaj
Lappy --> a 5th I think.
Halak --> Ellers & Schultz

You can say we lost almost every trade but the only trade that was really one-sided was the SK trade.

Grabo we got good value in return.

Lats is basically a wash. Poulliot is coming around.

Chips was a fair trade. He was just a bad draft pick.

O'Byrne might turn out to be a slight edge for the Avs. Bournival will probably be a poor man's Beregron.

D'ago was a decent trade at the time but I think Palushaj is not an NHLer. Edge to St Louis.

Lappy edge to Anaheim.

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Old
01-14-2011, 09:55 AM
  #233
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They can all stay where they are.

D'agostini could be useful to us if we still had him but the others are not needed here anymore.

Sorry forgot about Lats, I would take him back too.

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01-14-2011, 09:57 AM
  #234
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Originally Posted by Not The One View Post
Giving up on young players only to see them flourish with an other team IMMEDIATLY is becoming a seriously disturbing trend. Latendresse, SKost, Grabo, Chipchura, Obyrne, D'agostini is a lot of talent to give up for basically nothing. Will Lapierre be the next one to turn around his career with another team?
Definitely agree.

There's something terribly wrong with this picture here...

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01-14-2011, 10:15 AM
  #235
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Originally Posted by onice View Post
Well let's see how badly we've done.

Grabo was from a different management & coaching staff but we'll throw him in the mix.

Grabo --> 2nd & Patyrn
Lats --> Pouliot
Sergei --> Nothing really - Boyd was signed as a free agent
Chip --> I forget, what did we get, a 3rd
O'Byrne --> Bournival
D'ago --> Palushaj
Lappy --> a 5th I think.
Halak --> Ellers & Schultz
What really frustrates me is that most of those players do contribute more or less to their new team, while we only have Pouliot as return.
Damn.
We need more trades like Wisnieski.

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Old
01-14-2011, 10:23 AM
  #236
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Virtually every player in this topic not named Ribeiro or Halak (jury's still out on Latendresse) is a dime-a-dozen player that we can pick up for chips in free agency. Only in Montreal do we build up guys like Chipchura and D'Agostini as some kind of jewel that we let slip through our fingers.

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01-14-2011, 10:24 AM
  #237
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Originally Posted by Not The One View Post
Giving up on young players only to see them flourish with an other team IMMEDIATLY is becoming a seriously disturbing trend. Latendresse, SKost, Grabo, Chipchura, Obyrne, D'agostini is a lot of talent to give up for basically nothing. Will Lapierre be the next one to turn around his career with another team?
I don't know if I agree that we gave up on players as much as you say.

Latendresse for Pouliot--> 2 stuggling players. Pouliot has done well for us and could score 20 goals on the 3rd line. Probably has a higher ceiling than Latendresse. Not really giving up as much as using a good player to get another good player.

S Kost for nothing --> Yeah, I'll agree that we gave up on him. But what else could we do? Not like he was going to play here. Crazy attitude issues. Had to get him out of this city in hopes of getting Andre back to 26 goals 53 point player we saw a glimpse of.

Grabo for Pateryn and 2nd (Lang) --> Dominic Moore put up career highs playing on Toronto's top line too. Pateryn is playing on Michigan's top Pairing and we used the pick to get Lang who was pretty good for us. Also add in attitude issues here. Back when he was traded I think all of us would have preferred AK & SK to Grabo.

Chiphcura for 4th --> I don't even think Chipchura belongs on this list. I wouldn't say he's had any comparable impact for the ducks as Grabo, S Kost or Latendresse has for their teams. I'm happy we turned him into an asset to use.

O'Byrne for Bournival --> Yep, O'B is doing pretty awesome right now. Playing like that I'd definitely wish to have him back in a Habs Uni right now given our current situation. That being said, we got a guy who's going to pot at least 40 in Junior this year. When we get a prospect back who's that skilled I don't think it's as much of a case of giving up on someone.

D'Agostini for Palushaj --> If D'Agostini can build on this season and pot 30 goals in one of the next 2 years I'll eat a lot of crow. I compare this to the Latendresse deal in a sense that I think Palushaj has a bit higher of a ceiling than D'Agostini. Again we got a talented prospect back for a guy who at best would play spot duty in our top six.

Lapierre for Festering and a 5th --> This one really does disturb me. I don't see Festering ever being a constant on our blue line. at best a 7th Dman/ Emergency Call-up. I still don't get this trade.

So based on the young players we've traded and what we got back I think it's arguable that the only players we really gave up on were Skost and Maxim. (I have Garbo on the fence). That said the only deal I really don't understand is the Lapierre trade. I don't really see the same disturbing trend you do.

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Old
01-14-2011, 10:29 AM
  #238
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Originally Posted by onice View Post
Well let's see how badly we've done.

Grabo was from a different management & coaching staff but we'll throw him in the mix.

Grabo --> 2nd & Patyrn
Lats --> Pouliot
Sergei --> Nothing really - Boyd was signed as a free agent
Chip --> I forget, what did we get, a 3rd
O'Byrne --> Bournival
D'ago --> Palushaj
Lappy --> a 5th I think.
Halak --> Ellers & Schultz

You can say we lost almost every trade but the only trade that was really one-sided was the SK trade.

Grabo we got good value in return.

Lats is basically a wash. Poulliot is coming around.

Chips was a fair trade. He was just a bad draft pick.

O'Byrne might turn out to be a slight edge for the Avs. Bournival will probably be a poor man's Beregron.

D'ago was a decent trade at the time but I think Palushaj is not an NHLer. Edge to St Louis.

Lappy edge to Anaheim.
We got two NHLers (Pouliot and Eller), who both have a lot of work to do, for eight young players, some of whom play key roles for their new team. Essentially, we have (for now) a pair of third liners and some long-shot prospects for

A number one goaltender
Three second liners
Three solid third/fourth liners
A bottom pairing defenseman

If BG and PG were financial managers, they would have been fired for that. Fortunately for them, they work for a team where mediocrity is good enough.

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Old
01-14-2011, 10:29 AM
  #239
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The trades wouldn't be that bad if we actually got quality returns that are currently benefiting the team. The only guy who is helping the team right now is Pouillot.

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01-14-2011, 10:39 AM
  #240
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Virtually every player in this topic not named Ribeiro or Halak (jury's still out on Latendresse) is a dime-a-dozen player that we can pick up for chips in free agency. Only in Montreal do we build up guys like Chipchura and D'Agostini as some kind of jewel that we let slip through our fingers.
robidas was the first alternate D-man for team canada last year... imo that's a pretty damn valuable dime

and i think your comment ignores the reality of the cap system.

Grabo or Koivu (and of course Ribeiro, whom you acknowledged) would be giving us much better value than Gomez

For a team with injury and toughness issues on defense, O'byrne would be/was a "gem" given his abilities/salary (how quickly he turned it around in Colorade speaks to what happens when a player's confidence is the only issue and finds a coach/organization that gets how important it is to support it).

Recchi, tanguay and S.Kost are giving their teams great offensive contributions on bargain basement contracts... for a team as starved for scoring as we are that would be an asset.

Yes, mid-range players like the ones listed above can be found/acquired relatively easily, no one is saying that they are superstars...

but in the cap era, it's all about getting quality value for the $$ you invest. While those players are providing that for their current teams, we have a lineup chalk full of players we had to overpay as UFA's to assemble, and who give us piss-poor return on the $$.

better to have a collection of "dime a dozen" players, than get similar or worse contributions from "10$ a dozen" players

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Old
01-14-2011, 10:43 AM
  #241
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Originally Posted by Not The One View Post
We got two NHLers (Pouliot and Eller), who both have a lot of work to do, for eight young players, some of whom play key roles for their new team. Essentially, we have (for now) a pair of third liners and some long-shot prospects for

A number one goaltender
Three second liners
Three solid third/fourth liners
A bottom pairing defenseman

If BG and PG were financial managers, they would have been fired for that. Fortunately for them, they work for a team where mediocrity is good enough.
Sure Pateryn is a bit of a long shot but your leaving out the 2nd round pick that brought us Lang.

I don't think Palushaj and Bournival are as long shots as you seem to think. Overating D'Agostini IMO.

I'll concede SK and Lapierre were bad, but I still don't know what other options were out there for SK at the time.

I don't think BG and PG have done as bad on these trades as your making them out to have.

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Old
01-14-2011, 10:45 AM
  #242
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Originally Posted by Darth Joker View Post

The Montreal Ex-Habs!!!

Chris Higgins Mike Ribeiro Guillaume Latendresse

Sergei Samsonov Mikhail Grabovski Matt D'Agostini

Sergei Kostitsyn Saku Koivu Michael Ryder

Steve Begin Kyle Chipchura Maxim Lapierre

Corey Locke Marcel Hossa


Francois Beauchemin Mark Streit

Ron Hainsey Ryan O'Byrne

Ryan McDonagh Mike Komisarek

Craig Rivet


Jaroslav Halak

Mathieu Garon

Michael Leighton


It would be a terrible team

Up front they are small, have about zero defensive talent and about to no grit and physicality outside of the fourth line.

The D corps is about the same as the Leafs one and it is way too slow and lack alot of puck moving ability or mobility to be usefull, they even aren't good in their zone anymore.

The goalies would be good only real bright side.

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Old
01-14-2011, 10:49 AM
  #243
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I don't know if I agree that we gave up on players as much as you say.

Latendresse for Pouliot--> 2 stuggling players. Pouliot has done well for us and could score 20 goals on the 3rd line. Probably has a higher ceiling than Latendresse. Not really giving up as much as using a good player to get another good player.
Based on what? Including playoffs,

Latendresse 55GP 28G 15A 43PTS
Pouliot 100GP 24G 22A 46PTS

Sure Latendresse is injured right now, but I don't see Pouliot's higher ceiling.

Quote:
S Kost for nothing --> Yeah, I'll agree that we gave up on him. But what else could we do? Not like he was going to play here. Crazy attitude issues. Had to get him out of this city in hopes of getting Andre back to 26 goals 53 point player we saw a glimpse of.
I agree with you that he had an atrocious attitude, but did managment do anything to help him along the way before things go out of hand? Also, they waited until he haz ZERO value before moving him.

Quote:
Grabo for Pateryn and 2nd (Lang) --> Dominic Moore put up career highs playing on Toronto's top line too. Pateryn is playing on Michigan's top Pairing and we used the pick to get Lang who was pretty good for us. Also add in attitude issues here. Back when he was traded I think all of us would have preferred AK & SK to Grabo.
Again, it's up to managment to properly evaluate a player and determine how to use him. I was glad of the return for him at the time, but in hindsight with all our other mismanaged assets this is part of a disturbing trend.

Quote:
Chiphcura for 4th --> I don't even think Chipchura belongs on this list. I wouldn't say he's had any comparable impact for the ducks as Grabo, S Kost or Latendresse has for their teams. I'm happy we turned him into an asset to use.
We don't miss Chipchura that much, but he is still an other example of a young homegrown player who had to leave to find his niche.

Quote:
O'Byrne for Bournival --> Yep, O'B is doing pretty awesome right now. Playing like that I'd definitely wish to have him back in a Habs Uni right now given our current situation. That being said, we got a guy who's going to pot at least 40 in Junior this year. When we get a prospect back who's that skilled I don't think it's as much of a case of giving up on someone.
I like Bournival, but prospect < NHL player, especially one who could fill a whole in our lineup. We JUST traded him, and already we would take him back.

Quote:
D'Agostini for Palushaj --> If D'Agostini can build on this season and pot 30 goals in one of the next 2 years I'll eat a lot of crow. I compare this to the Latendresse deal in a sense that I think Palushaj has a bit higher of a ceiling than D'Agostini. Again we got a talented prospect back for a guy who at best would play spot duty in our top six.
Would St. Louis trade Palushaj for D'Agostini? Nope. Same trend.

Quote:
Lapierre for Festering and a 5th --> This one really does disturb me. I don't see Festering ever being a constant on our blue line. at best a 7th Dman/ Emergency Call-up. I still don't get this trade.
I think with time and maturity Lapierre would have been our new Carbonneau. It was an absolutely senseless trade.

Quote:
So based on the young players we've traded and what we got back I think it's arguable that the only players we really gave up on were Skost and Maxim. (I have Garbo on the fence). That said the only deal I really don't understand is the Lapierre trade. I don't really see the same disturbing trend you do.
Would any of the other teams redo those trades? Maybe you could argue that some of them are a wash for the Habs, but those other teams are 8/8 with those moves. And we didn't mention Halak but I'm not going to go there.

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Old
01-14-2011, 10:50 AM
  #244
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Its not "maybe".
Being traded is like a wake-up call for young players, thats why they're usually playing well during the next months.

Maybe we should remember that Pouliot was in the same situation with Minnesota.
Carolina traded a third and a fourth pick before they had finished their ELC.
You could add players like Mueller, Brule, Coburn, Upshall, Ballard, Whitney etc...It happens almost everywhere.

And more important, lets wait before saying that trading X or Y was wrong.
Management may have given up too early on the player, but you are ok with the idea of saying that it was a mistake to trade Sergei or O'Byrne after less than four months ?
Bingo!

When you get fired... you get fired up.

Its human nature.

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Old
01-14-2011, 11:16 AM
  #245
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Originally Posted by Not The One View Post
Based on what? Including playoffs,

Latendresse 55GP 28G 15A 43PTS
Pouliot 100GP 24G 22A 46PTS

Sure Latendresse is injured right now, but I don't see Pouliot's higher ceiling.
I think Pouliot's not being used to his full potential. Get him top line minutes and we'll see his numbers improve. Pouliot's been mainly 3rd line while Latendresse has been in a scoring role from the minute he's arrived in Minni. Numbers don't tell the whole story.

Quote:
I agree with you that he had an atrocious attitude, but did managment do anything to help him along the way before things go out of hand? Also, they waited until he haz ZERO value before moving him.
Don't disagree. Not sure he had as much value prior to the obvious attitude issues as we'd think though.

Quote:
Again, it's up to managment to properly evaluate a player and determine how to use him. I was glad of the return for him at the time, but in hindsight with all our other mismanaged assets this is part of a disturbing trend.
Disagree, Garbo wasn't happy in montreal and had reported conflicts with the Kostitsyns. AK looked to be coming into his own and SK was in the system. Obvious choice to trade Garbo. It's taken 3 years for us to change our mind on this trade. I don't think we can hold that against Management.


Quote:
We don't miss Chipchura that much, but he is still an other example of a young homegrown player who had to leave to find his niche.
Sure he found a niche someplace else but this is irrelevant if your arguing about management mismanaging assets. Chipchura wasn't mishandled in Montreal, he just wasn't needed so we traded him for a pick.


Quote:
I like Bournival, but prospect < NHL player, especially one who could fill a whole in our lineup. We JUST traded him, and already we would take him back.
your right that Propect is < than NHL player. I'd take back O'B right now in an instant. But that's due to injuries. But I'm still not sure O'B was mismanaged. I think the team saw that O'B had value and that not getting some value for him would be wasteful. They took a guy who at the time was getting no minutes and turned him into a legitimate prospect. His play with us was deserving of bottom pairing minutes. He wasn't as good with us as he has been with the Avs. Management took a bad situation and at least gave it some light.



Quote:
Would St. Louis trade Palushaj for D'Agostini? Nope. Same trend.
D'Ago is fringe 2nd liner at best. I'll trade a player like D'Ago for a prospect with some upside almost anyday. Especially if you look at our current lineup. D'Ago doesn't give much more upside than anyone we have so why keep him around? His value to St. Louis is very differant than his value to us.

Quote:
I think with time and maturity Lapierre would have been our new Carbonneau. It was an absolutely senseless trade.
Agree.



Quote:
Would any of the other teams redo those trades? Maybe you could argue that some of them are a wash for the Habs, but those other teams are 8/8 with those moves. And we didn't mention Halak but I'm not going to go there.
Every team is in a differant situation. Just because they wouldn't take the trades back now doesn't mean they outright beat us on them.

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01-14-2011, 11:50 AM
  #246
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I Grabo for Pateryn and 2nd (Lang) --> Dominic Moore put up career highs playing on Toronto's top line too. Pateryn is playing on Michigan's top Pairing and we used the pick to get Lang who was pretty good for us..
Pateryn is not playing on Michigan's top pairing. That would be the Freshman Jon Merrill. Pateryn has been a healthy scratch at times this year despite being an upper classman. He's usually on the 3rd pairing with Bennett.

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Old
01-14-2011, 02:35 PM
  #247
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Chips was a fair trade. He was just a bad draft pick.
How do you you figure?

The majority of Anaheim fans seem to like him. And the guy suffered a lot of injuries post-draft. Guy had bad luck and in retrospect is a bad selection - but he was a good selection at the time of the draft. Guy would be a premier shutdown centre without the injury history.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hototogisu View Post
Virtually every player in this topic not named Ribeiro or Halak (jury's still out on Latendresse) is a dime-a-dozen player that we can pick up for chips in free agency. Only in Montreal do we build up guys like Chipchura and D'Agostini as some kind of jewel that we let slip through our fingers.
D'Agostini is developing nicely and loved in St. Louis. He's on pace for nearly 20 goals and 43 points, which is pretty good and not "dime-a-dozen." With extra PP time, he'd probably be closer to 55-points for the year.

Guy is defensively reponsible, working hard, and becoming a big piece to the St. Louis puzzle. There is absolutely no way that they are upset with either trade they made with us. They're loving them.

I was high on D'Agostini from the start, so he's always been built up by me. The fact is, he's still young and has the chance to show it - and he is.


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Old
01-14-2011, 04:34 PM
  #248
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post

A Kost - Grabovski - S. Kostitsyn
Pacioretty - Plekanec - Cammy
Latendresse - Ribeiro - Gionta

No?
More like thoses lines.

This top 9 would probably challenged for the top 5 seed in the East easilly...

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Old
01-16-2011, 10:19 AM
  #249
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Man Halak is really struggling this season, poor guy.

His save% in .910

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Old
01-16-2011, 12:40 PM
  #250
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Darn! Why Ryan McDonagh?

I know that this is a dead issue and it should be considered as "Well, it's done so live with it and move on."

To still be talking about it is like .

Nevertheless, every time I hear about him being with the Rangers, out comes the cat-o-nine-tails and I start flogging that dead horse again.

I know he won't be a top two defenseman but could legitimately become a solid third or fourth on any team. He would have been, potentially, a great replacement for Gill when Montreal doesn't renew his contract or Gill decides that his road is leading somewhere else.

I don't resent having Gomez come here. Nor do I resent the fact that he came with quite a financial 'burden' - Gauthier believed that he was simply the 'best' center available at the time but darn, I usually let be what others do and not impose my opinions, especially in areas that are not of my expertise but, on this one..., man, I wish the trade hadn't included McDonagh.

You don't have to respond to this. I'm just venting to people who know where I come from.

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