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Wolski deal a gamble/potential Grachev fallout

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Old
01-16-2011, 12:32 PM
  #26
FutureGM97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueHavoc View Post
really not ready to shut the door on Grachev....been watching the Whale lately and he really has his moments....could turn out to be AA in terms of skill, capability and use to this team. I do hope Wolski works out and, I really rather NEVER see Frolov in Rangers blue ever again.
He is out for the season and considering the young depth we have developing and the fact he is on a one-year deal, i highly doubt you will.

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01-16-2011, 12:41 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
Larry Brooks paints Michal Rozsival as an insecure individual





http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/range...1aJZfrz65CWouN

Was Grachev penciled in as a 2nd line player next season? The Rangers have Dubinsky and Wolski on the LW. The Rangers still have two spots open on LW. Avery is signed for next season. His spot isn't guaranteed.
I do agree that Grachev is a very tradeable asset for NY. But like you mentioned nobody is penciled in on that position. If it is one thing this current club and the new model tells us it's that the guy embraces the opportunity, steps up and earns the position is the guy who is going to earn the job. There are no givens here. Brooksie definately overlooks that...but I just am not even sure that Grachev is even in the top 5 or 6 in line for that position.

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01-16-2011, 12:43 PM
  #28
Jarkko Immonen
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Originally Posted by Prusted View Post
Grachev has been playing mostly C in the AHL this season.
Not true.

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Old
01-16-2011, 12:49 PM
  #29
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Discussions are ongoing between Grachev and and the Coaching staff and management in Hartford. From what I've read, they've made it pretty clear what they expect Grachev to do on the ice.

http://www.ctwhale.com/default.asp?ctwhale=59&objId=992

I have no idea how they feel about his progress, but it's safe to say they feel he's not ready to make the jump. I think they will continue to be patient, but I also feel there was an opening, an opportunity here that was missed by Grachev.

My own opinion is that at the ripe old age of 20 he still has not got "IT" yet. Hopefully he will because if he does I think he could really be a special player.

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01-16-2011, 12:52 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
Kreider's entry level max would $900,000. Say he gets $400,000 in bonuses. His cap hit is $1.3M. Without the bonus cushion,it's $1.3M and not $900k and we will worry about if he makes the bonuses later. The lack of a bonus cushion next season will hurt many teams and players.
The lack of a bonus cusion is an issue.

But, I'm not sure they would hold back a young player they regard so highly because of financial reasons.

They could cut some fat to allow Kreider's 1.3 to fit under the cap. For example: Prospal, Christensen, Boogaard.

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01-16-2011, 01:52 PM
  #31
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This is Grachev's second straight year in hartford that's been rather unimpressive. People can make all the excuses they want for him, but he's been given chances at every level.

Wolski has a nose for the net. Sure, he's more expensive but he's only 4 years older than Grachev and a hell of a lot more accomplished.

As much as I hate to see him go, if Grachev is traded for a 2nd or as a key piece of a larger deal, i wont complain.

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01-16-2011, 01:56 PM
  #32
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Iím always leery of young players who get traded multiple times. Like whatís up with the talented Wojtek Wolski? The Colorado Avalanche didnít think he was worth an upcoming hefty arbitration award and moved him to Phoenix, where Coyotes coach Dave Tippett got lukewarm on him. ďMaybe he needs a coach whoís going to be really hard on him. Joel Quenneville, Tony Granato, Joe Sacco, Tip ... theyíre not harsh. Torts (John Tortorella in New York)? Now, heíll get on him,Ē said one NHL coach.
Quote:
As for defenceman Michal Rozsival, who went to Phoenix, heís a good player who is hurt a lot. ďI think thereís some attrition there, but heíll fit in in Phoenix,Ē said Rozsivalís former Rangers coach Tom Renney. Rozsival will give the Coyotes what they missed when Zybenek Michalek signed in Pittsburgh.
Read more: http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/...#ixzz1BEJn58EK

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Old
01-16-2011, 02:19 PM
  #33
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The Rangers do have an extra 2nd from the Sanguinetti deal--so there is an alternative if they don't want to give up Grachev. I expect their braintrust has a better feel for where Grachev is than I do--so it's not as if I think Grachev has to go. It's just that I think he's movable and again it depends on the return and their future projections for Grachev based on what they know now.

As for the return there are defenseman that might cost a 2nd rounder and there may be some who cost more. Got to think that Kaberle for one is going to be moved this time around as he is entering free agency and the Maple Leafs aren't going anywhere. Kaberle might help our pwp out a lot and is decent in his own end. The Rangers aspirations for the cup fit into this as well. Not just them but the fanbase has a tendency of thinking that making the playoffs means we have a chance of winning it all. Personally I see us as at best one season away from being a serious contender but more likely two or maybe three. Even so, I see a deadline deal being made for a d-man to legitimize these aspirations of cup worthiness and I don't think just any 3-4 like a Derek Morris will do for that. I think they'll have bigger ideas.

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Old
01-16-2011, 02:21 PM
  #34
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shut up already Brooksie.....Rangers can bury WW in CT if he sucks....only that little troll, Bus Stop Larry could question that deal.

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01-16-2011, 02:34 PM
  #35
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Give up on Wolski before we give up on a prospect.

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01-16-2011, 02:36 PM
  #36
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Teams know their own players better than any other team does. Don't ever forget that. You can scout and follow teams all you want but the Rangers front office knows Grachev better than anyone else. And they may (I stress may because I have no idea) have decided that Grachev is not going to be an NHL player. And if that's they case, they may "regrettably" "sacrafice" him up in a trade. My guess is the only way the Rangers would trade him is in a deal for a player who could become part of the core. They obviously decided Sanguinetti was not in their plans and then spun it (logjam on defense) to get something back for the asset. A little different situation but the same basic thought process.


Last edited by bobbop: 01-16-2011 at 03:22 PM.
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Old
01-16-2011, 03:00 PM
  #37
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I think the Wojo trade gives Grachev more time to develop...maybe he is not as good as I would hope him to be but maybe he just needs more time to develop...why is there always such a rush to dump our own

There is no need to rush him...he is 20, it takes some guys longer...he was a 3rd round pick...maybe he should have spent his 19th year in Juniors...remember he went with playing with Matt Duchense & Cory Hodgson to Cory Locke and Ryan Garlock...cut him some slack!

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Old
01-16-2011, 03:03 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orr Nightmare View Post
I think the Wojo trade gives Grachev more time to develop...maybe he is not as good as I would hope him to be but maybe he just needs more time to develop...why is there always such a rush to dump our own

There is no need to rush him...he is 20, it takes some guys longer...he was a 3rd round pick...maybe he should have spent his 19th year in Juniors...remember he went with playing with Matt Duchense & Cory Hodgson to Cory Locke and Ryan Garlock...cut him some slack!
That is exactly why he should have spent another year in junior and not maybe should have.

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Old
01-16-2011, 03:34 PM
  #39
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I love the Wolski trade. I donít really see it as a big gamble. Itís not like Wolski has a long term deal. If Wolski becomes a player for us than Grachev's value to the rangers will decrease and we could trade him for something. If Wolski doesn't he will be gone after next year. Hopefully by then Grachev will show he is nhl ready. It gives Grachev some extra time to develop.

As far as buying out Avery that makes no sense. He is a good bottom 6 player. He doesn't have a large cap hit so you would not be saving much money. Drury is the player they need to think about buying out. You will have a significant amount of money available next year if you buy him out.

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01-16-2011, 05:03 PM
  #40
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Just to make this conversation more interesting... Grachev scored 2 this afternoon and is now 4-3-7 in 8 games this month.

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Old
01-16-2011, 05:17 PM
  #41
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Before trading Grachev I would probably trade Weise, Jeremy Williams, and Dupont. Grachev is younger and has looked better on the NHL level.

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Old
01-16-2011, 08:47 PM
  #42
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I think there is space for both Wolski and Grachev on the team and in the teams plans going forward. It is not a zero sum game so in this aspect Brooks is simply trying to sell papers.

The big downside I see is that Grachev takes his toys back to russia at the conclusion of his contract and signs in the KHL, meanwhile Wolski doesn't pan out as hoped for. Then again Grachev hasn't shown the improvement all us ranger fans would love to see at this at this point in his career.

I think Sather could have gotten a better return by waiting until the deadline to move Rozi. However if the cap space dovetails nicely into an upcoming move then I can see the rationale in making the deal now.

as an aside acquiring Rozi gives Don Maloney an extra defenseman that he can trade at the deadline for some youthful upside, so perhaps the Yotes have something up their sleeve as well.

As far as Drury goes, I am hoping he accepts a job in the rangers organization and opts for early retirement thus freeing up his cap hit. Like Marcus Naslund did.

Chris is a class act and his contract and performance on the ice are the source of quite a lot of bitterness from the fans. If he takes a desk job with a nice contract he comes off the cap hit and rangers fans can focus on disliking Dennis Potvin, Slew foot Crosby or Subban

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01-16-2011, 08:52 PM
  #43
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Before trading Grachev I would probably trade Weise, Jeremy Williams, and Dupont. Grachev is younger and has looked better on the NHL level.
Mm, that's funny because Glen was checking his messages this afternoon and teams are LINING UP for Williams, Weise and Dupont. In fact, I heard there were some offers for a package of all three...

People talk about Grachev because he actually has, you know, some value as a prospect.

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01-16-2011, 09:22 PM
  #44
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Mm, that's funny because Glen was checking his messages this afternoon and teams are LINING UP for Williams, Weise and Dupont. In fact, I heard there were some offers for a package of all three...

People talk about Grachev because he actually has, you know, some value as a prospect.
An elite D-man, perhaps?

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Old
01-16-2011, 09:28 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by donpaulo View Post
I think there is space for both Wolski and Grachev on the team and in the teams plans going forward. It is not a zero sum game so in this aspect Brooks is simply trying to sell papers.

The big downside I see is that Grachev takes his toys back to russia at the conclusion of his contract and signs in the KHL, meanwhile Wolski doesn't pan out as hoped for. Then again Grachev hasn't shown the improvement all us ranger fans would love to see at this at this point in his career.

I think Sather could have gotten a better return by waiting until the deadline to move Rozi. However if the cap space dovetails nicely into an upcoming move then I can see the rationale in making the deal now.

as an aside acquiring Rozi gives Don Maloney an extra defenseman that he can trade at the deadline for some youthful upside, so perhaps the Yotes have something up their sleeve as well.

As far as Drury goes, I am hoping he accepts a job in the rangers organization and opts for early retirement thus freeing up his cap hit. Like Marcus Naslund did.

Chris is a class act and his contract and performance on the ice are the source of quite a lot of bitterness from the fans. If he takes a desk job with a nice contract he comes off the cap hit and rangers fans can focus on disliking Dennis Potvin, Slew foot Crosby or Subban
What kind of return do you think Rozsy could've fetched that would've been better than Wolski???

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Old
01-16-2011, 09:32 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
The Rangers do have an extra 2nd from the Sanguinetti deal--so there is an alternative if they don't want to give up Grachev. I expect their braintrust has a better feel for where Grachev is than I do--so it's not as if I think Grachev has to go. It's just that I think he's movable and again it depends on the return and their future projections for Grachev based on what they know now.

As for the return there are defenseman that might cost a 2nd rounder and there may be some who cost more. Got to think that Kaberle for one is going to be moved this time around as he is entering free agency and the Maple Leafs aren't going anywhere. Kaberle might help our pwp out a lot and is decent in his own end. The Rangers aspirations for the cup fit into this as well. Not just them but the fanbase has a tendency of thinking that making the playoffs means we have a chance of winning it all. Personally I see us as at best one season away from being a serious contender but more likely two or maybe three. Even so, I see a deadline deal being made for a d-man to legitimize these aspirations of cup worthiness and I don't think just any 3-4 like a Derek Morris will do for that. I think they'll have bigger ideas.
And they've shown they are not afraid to use an extra one to get a rental player (Antropov.) I was against that deal, and I'd probably be opposed to it again this year (for reasons you mention above)...although from an organization's standpoint I can see why they do it.

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Old
01-16-2011, 10:30 PM
  #47
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Teams do not go far in the playoffs without a solid blueline group. The Rangers have the goaltending. They don't have much as far as elite scoring threats but they do have a lot of forward depth and they can roll line after line--that will especially be the case if they get healthier. They have two veteran d-men they know they can depend on in a crunch--Staal and Girardi. Eminger might fit more the bill of a good 6-7 guy--people compare him to Lidster--that's what Doug was. For us Eminger will be asked to do more than that. We'll see how that works out but in the playoffs there are no weak teams. The other d-men we're using currently are either rookies or untested. I don't think there is any doubt that the Rangers are going to try to shore up their defense and in particular look for a guy who can move the puck especially in the offensive zone. Special teams play is critical in the playoffs. Got to get somebody who can qb the powerplay.

The Rangers can move the 2nd round pick or even both. Hell they can even move the 1st if they think the draft is weak. They can look at what they have in Hartford. Of the prospects they're not likely to move McDonagh--who is showing he's going to be very good, Krieder or McIlrath--no way. They're not going to move MZA who is proving he's for real. Grachev is valuable but moveable if necessary. Williams and Dupont will not get much at all. Grachev could.

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Old
01-16-2011, 10:43 PM
  #48
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Why would we waste cap space to buy out Avery if we wanted to get rid of him? Demoting him costs 0 cap space.

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01-16-2011, 10:54 PM
  #49
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Good writeup by Brooksie.

Although I disagree with buying Avery out. If anyone should be bought out this offseason, it's Captain Quaalude.

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01-16-2011, 10:58 PM
  #50
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and i just want to add my two cents here for i am an incredible EHM player and have been for some time. that said ::clears throat:: i think we should trade Grachev whilst his value is high. before he becomes a career AHLer. we would be able to land something better than him i think. like a better career AHLer. before it's too late and his speed goes down to yellow and his slap shot in the red. marinade in that.

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